ROMANS 16:7 IN CHRIST BEFORE PAUL

[johnthebaptist]

8 minutes ago, douge said:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you were to obey everything would you not have gone to Jerusalem?

2 Thessalonians 3:14 says Paul is to be obeyed...And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

I think that has already been done, and I am much more effective where I am. I have to follow Jesus.

[douge]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 3:46 AM, Willa said:

Those under the teaching of Peter also had the baptism of the Holy Spirit and were part of the Church.  The church started in Acts 2.  Those baptized by John may not have been a part of the Church since they later had hands laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit.  Those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit belong to God.  

Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Yes, they were part of the church but not the church, the body of Christ. The body of Christ was not revealed nor mentioned before Paul; it was a mystery hid in God (Ephesians 3:1-7 Ephesians 3:9).

The teachers quoted who fail to recognize this does not negate scripture, nor the revelations given to Paul.

[douge]

5 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I think that has already been done, and I am much more effective where I am. I have to follow Jesus.

So you can now see we are not commanded to obey everything, but we should obey what is commanded us

[johnthebaptist]

3 hours ago, douge said:

So you can now see we are not commanded to obey everything, but we should obey what is commanded us

Jesus said, "Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning in Jerusalem." According to Jesus, then, it doesn't stop in Jerusalem. I'm am attempting to carry out his work here in Northern Nevada.

[johnthebaptist]

3 hours ago, douge said:

So you can now see we are not commanded to obey everything, but we should obey what is commanded us

 

24 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

Jesus said, "Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning in Jerusalem." According to Jesus, then, it doesn't stop in Jerusalem. I'm am attempting to carry out his work here in Northern Nevada.

If you thought Jesus was talking to you as an individual, you might argue first you have to go to Jerusalem. But I believe Jesus was talking to Christians as a group, and "beginning in Jerusalem" would have occurred immediately after Jesus died. But there would be no harm in your going to Jerusalem first, if you thought the Lord was calling you to do that.

[douge]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:12 PM, johnthebaptist said:

 

If you thought Jesus was talking to you as an individual, you might argue first you have to go to Jerusalem. But I believe Jesus was talking to Christians as a group, and "beginning in Jerusalem" would have occurred immediately after Jesus died. But there would be no harm in your going to Jerusalem first, if you thought the Lord was calling you to do that.

You said "My own belief is that everything Jesus and God said must be believed and obeyed"

Of course we aren't commanded to go to Jerusalem, but the point is you decided Luke 24:47 was not to be obeyed by you, so you cant say we are to obey everything. Everybody though they say otherwise rightly divides scripture.

You also said we need not obey Paul and failed to address what I said: "2 Thessalonians 3:14 says Paul is to be obeyed...And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. "

 

[johnthebaptist]

2 minutes ago, douge said:

You said "My own belief is that everything Jesus and God said must be believed and obeyed"

Of course we aren't commanded to go to Jerusalem, but the point is you decided Luke 24:47 was not to be obeyed by you, so you cant say we are to obey everything. Everybody though they say otherwise rightly divides scripture.

You also said we need not obey Paul and failed to address what I said: "2 Thessalonians 3:14 says Paul is to be obeyed...And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. "

 

If Jesus said, "Get me a fish," one person could do that. We wouldn't all have to do that, would we?

[Behold]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:18 PM, Willa said:

The fact is that Peter and Paul preached the same gospel.

Is Acts 2:38, Peter preaching to Jews only, at Pentecost..... the same message  as the  preaching OF justification by faith that Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles has delivered as the doctrine of "Justification by faith"?

I would have to respectfully disagree with you on that one, sista., as those 2 dots will never connect, theologically as long as the New Testament exits.

Peter, preaching to JEWS at Pentecost in Act 2, is the same Peter in Acts 10 who thought only the Jews could be saved, and that is why God had to show him the vision that taught him, many years after the Cross, what the Cross actually represents that PAUL teaches as the "gift of Righteousness" based ON that Cross and that Blood Atonement, and that justification by Faith that the Cross has created thru the blood of Jesus.

Peter in Acts 2, is teaching and preaching all he knows at that time...., as the Gospel of the Grace of God that we all recognize now as the Grace of God...(Paul's theology) ...now that we are 2000 yrs later affiliated with a New Testament, was not known to Peter in Acts 2.   He had no New Testament, and had not met Paul yet (Acts 15).

Act 2:38 that Peter is preaching, is the same  repentance message that he always preached to the House of Israel till later.  Its John the Baptist's  Old Testament message that he was preaching when he baptized the Lord, and its certainly not the message of the Cross, as the Cross is not yet carried or lifted.    So, how could he be preaching the Cross when there is no Cross , yet?   And so, how can Peter be preaching the message of Grace in Acts 2, that Paul gave to the Church by revelation of Christ much later, when Peter is preaching John the Baptist's message of "repent and be baptized"?

It can't be the same message, Sista., not at that early part of the NT's revelation. Yet by the end of Peter's ministry, he is on the right message.  sure.

Paul never taught "be baptized for the remission of your sins".....  He was  instead preaching the Cross, as the Cross is the power of God unto salvation, and not "repent and be baptized".

"repent and be baptized" does not need the Blood of Jesus...nor does it mention it.   so, this is not the "gospel" where you TRUST in CHRIST... and God accepts your FAITH.

These 2 messages are NOT the same.

So, Peter, till Acts 10, (10 yrs into his ministry after Jesus ascended) was not preaching Grace in Acts 2:38, as how could he, when He didnt know anything about "justification by faith" Yet.

He started to get the revelation in Acts 10.

We know about it, because we've all read Paul's epistles and have heard the Gospel of the Grace of God preached a billion times..

So, we understand it looking back, but Peter didnt have this.....all he had was......"Im a jew, jews are the children of God, so, repent and be baptized".....That was his message, until his message was changed, and that  message change came many years after Acts chapter 2.

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Behold

[Resurrection Priest]

    Philippians 4:3  “And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life.”

        Here Paul uses space and ink (very precious in His day) to state that the names of those who labored with him, to spread the gospel “are in The Book of Life.”  Saying that their names are in The Book of Life, is the same as saying these are "in Christ” or belonged to Christ. 

    Hebrews 12:22-23  [Speaking to NT believers]  “But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, . . .”

In the last bit of time before Christ returns:

    Revelation 13:8  “Everyone living on earth will worship it except those whose names are written in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb slaughtered before the world was founded.” CJB

 

Being "in Christ" is ABOUT ones name "written in" His Book of Life.  It's about whether one belongs to Christ. 

When Saul was on his zealous campaign to round up believers for prison and/or execution, was he "in Christ".  NO!  Were others "in Christ" at that time.  YES!  Saul wanted them dead. 

Had Saul been baptized at that time.  Answer:  NO! 

Acts 9:18 "And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he arose and was baptized;" (NAS)

 

We are "baptized into Christ Jesus".   After we are baptized (if freely and knowingly entered into) we are "in Christ".  (Infants cannot repent, therefore infants should not be baptized.  Peter preached "Repent and be baptized" . . . )

    Romans 6:3-7  “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?”  Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.  For if we have been united together [with Him] in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be [united with Him] in the likeness of His resurrection.  For he who has died [by baptism] has been freed from sin.”

 

    Romans 16:7  [Paul writing] “Greet Andronicus and Junia, my countrymen and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”

        Here Paul says that Andronicus and Junia were “in Christ” before he was.  Sounds like an EVENT which happens in time.          

    John 1:12  “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:”

        By implication, those who do not believe in His name (or who do not yet believe) - who have not “received Him” -  are not (or not yet) children of God.  

    Galatians 3:26-27 and 4:6   “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”  “And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, ‘Abba, Father!’”

 

This is about when names are written into the Book of Life.  It's not about whether one has received special gifts of the spirit, or demonstrate such gifts as tongues speaking.   Our names are written into that Book when we believe and give witness of our belief by baptism in His name. 

Incidentally, baptism by sprinkling began during a severe drought that affected Antioch.  There was not enough water available for immersion.  Doesn't mean such is not very much commanded.  The word "baptism" means "immersion".  Immersion symbolizes burial and resurrection.  "We are buried with Him in baptism." 

[Blood Bought 1953]

On 12/7/2019 at 11:12 AM, johnthebaptist said:

I believe I see a contradiction in your reasoning. You say that "All scripture is for us and is to be believed" but then go on to say "but all [scripture] is not for us to obey." How can you believe something but not obey it?

My own belief is that everything Jesus and God said must be believed and obeyed. As for Paul and the others, we have much to learn from them - they were great people - but we are not required to obey them.

 

If Paul said it......Jesus said it....... “ Follow me as I follow Christ”  

“ ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God .......”

Jesus lived in the Age Of Law and preached Law in His earthly Ministry. We are not living under Law.Ever since  Jesus returned to Heaven , we are living in the Age Of Grace. Many changes took place after Jesus Shed His Blood for us  at the Cross.......Jesus used Paul as His Secretary to reveal all of the great changes brought about by the New Covenant Of Grace......Anybody that relegates Paul to a position of “ take him or leave him”is in a state of ignorance that is profound in its implications. Ignore Paul and YOU pay the price .