Israel according to the flesh, Israel in Spirit

[JohnD]

Jeremiah 31:31–35 (AV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

 

Luke 22:20 (AV)
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

 

1 Corinthians 15:1–4 (AV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Romans 2:28–29 (AV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise** is not of men, but of God.

 

** "praise" is literally what Jew / Judah means see Genesis 29:35

 

Romans 9:1–6 (AV)
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 

The distinction and delineation of the above is the flesh versus the spirit. Physical Israel versus Spirit Israel.

 

And the New Covenant / New Testament / Gospel of Grace is with the Spirit House of Israel and the Spirit House of Judah.

 

Chalk this up to yet another biblical truth almost all mankind rejects. Pride and prejudice. The Jews are too proud to believe it and the Gentiles are too prejudice to believe it.

But the Bible bears this out, Gentile born believers in the Jewish Messiah are members of the Spirit House of Israel.

 

2 Chronicles 7:14 (AV)
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

Question: when has anyone been called by God's name? CHRISTian? That's a title and in the Hebrew is Messiah / Christ.

Answer: never.

 

Unless, you consider a name for God the Son that most are unaware of.

 

The Spirit gave this to me when I was witnessing to a Jewish Rabbi.

Isaiah 53, the suffering servant.

The Jews say the servant is Israel (quoting Isaiah 44:21).

The Spirit had me grant the Rabbi this premise.

Ordinarily, the apologetic response would be that the language is that of an individual as the servant and not a people...

But he had me grant him the premise, and it dawned on me what he was doing...

I actually said aloud, "that's brilliant, LORD."

I told the Rabbi clearly the suffering servant is Israel.

He was delighted. "Finally, a Christian who sees the truth. Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah... not about Jesus."

"Hold on," I told him. "I said the suffering servant is Israel. But we have to determine which Israel he is."

"What do you mean?" he asked.

I explained to him the following:

 

There are several Israels.

Israel the patriarch (Jacob).

Israel the people (the children of Israel).

Israel the ancient northern Kingdom.

Israel the modern State.

 

Plus one more Israel virtually no one has considered.

Israel is a name of compound words:

Yish = he

Sarar = prince

Elohiym = God

 

"and no Rabbi worth his salt would deny that the ultimate Prince

of God is the Messiah."

 

The Rabbi suddenly had to leave. 

 

This was an answer he couldn't question.

 

Questions they can't answer or answers they can't question... and it is still up to

the individual to decide whether or not to believe the truth. But a seed got planted that

day. It was up to the Rabbi if it took root or not. I never heard from him again.

 

Point I'm getting at is another name for Jesus is Israel (the Prince of God).

If we are the Spirit house of Israel then we are his people called by his name.

 

John 16:26–27 (AV)
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Edited December 7, 2019 by JohnD

[Resurrection Priest]

Jacob - named changed to Israel

Israel - in flesh

flesh "cut off" (from the Olive Tree) "for unbelief"

flesh "grafted in" (to the Olive Tree) "through faith in Yeshua"

what's left?  The "remnant" of Israel.

"And thus all Israel will be saved."

This is NOT "replacement theology".   The holy "root" of the Olive Tree is the same.   The trunk is the same.  It's the same tree. 

[JohnD]

It's inclusion theology not replacement theology.

In fact, Romans 2:28-29 has always been the case.

Circumcision of the heart goes back as far as Deuteronomy 10:16.

[BibleGuy]

On 12/6/2019 at 6:56 PM, JohnD said:

Jeremiah 31:31–35 (AV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

 

Luke 22:20 (AV)
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

 

1 Corinthians 15:1–4 (AV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

Romans 2:28–29 (AV)
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise** is not of men, but of God.

 

** "praise" is literally what Jew / Judah means see Genesis 29:35

 

Romans 9:1–6 (AV)
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 

The distinction and delineation of the above is the flesh versus the spirit. Physical Israel versus Spirit Israel.

 

And the New Covenant / New Testament / Gospel of Grace is with the Spirit House of Israel and the Spirit House of Judah.

 

Chalk this up to yet another biblical truth almost all mankind rejects. Pride and prejudice. The Jews are too proud to believe it and the Gentiles are too prejudice to believe it.

But the Bible bears this out, Gentile born believers in the Jewish Messiah are members of the Spirit House of Israel.

 

2 Chronicles 7:14 (AV)
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

Question: when has anyone been called by God's name? CHRISTian? That's a title and in the Hebrew is Messiah / Christ.

Answer: never.

 

Unless, you consider a name for God the Son that most are unaware of.

 

The Spirit gave this to me when I was witnessing to a Jewish Rabbi.

Isaiah 53, the suffering servant.

The Jews say the servant is Israel (quoting Isaiah 44:21).

The Spirit had me grant the Rabbi this premise.

Ordinarily, the apologetic response would be that the language is that of an individual as the servant and not a people...

But he had me grant him the premise, and it dawned on me what he was doing...

I actually said aloud, "that's brilliant, LORD."

I told the Rabbi clearly the suffering servant is Israel.

He was delighted. "Finally, a Christian who sees the truth. Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah... not about Jesus."

"Hold on," I told him. "I said the suffering servant is Israel. But we have to determine which Israel he is."

"What do you mean?" he asked.

I explained to him the following:

 

There are several Israels.

Israel the patriarch (Jacob).

Israel the people (the children of Israel).

Israel the ancient northern Kingdom.

Israel the modern State.

 

Plus one more Israel virtually no one has considered.

Israel is a name of compound words:

Yish = he

Sarar = prince

Elohiym = God

 

"and no Rabbi worth his salt would deny that the ultimate Prince

of God is the Messiah."

 

The Rabbi suddenly had to leave. 

 

This was an answer he couldn't question.

 

Questions they can't answer or answers they can't question... and it is still up to

the individual to decide whether or not to believe the truth. But a seed got planted that

day. It was up to the Rabbi if it took root or not. I never heard from him again.

 

Point I'm getting at is another name for Jesus is Israel (the Prince of God).

If we are the Spirit house of Israel then we are his people called by his name.

 

John 16:26–27 (AV)
26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Lots of interesting points....thank you.

 

[BibleGuy]

On 12/8/2019 at 7:42 PM, JohnD said:

It's inclusion theology not replacement theology.

In fact, Romans 2:28-29 has always been the case.

Circumcision of the heart goes back as far as Deuteronomy 10:16.

Yes....even believing Gentiles are NOT EXCLUDED (thus INCLUDED) in Israel (Eph.2:12).

Again, Paul says the believing Gentiles of Rom.9:24-26 are the ISRAELITES of Hos. 1 (citing Hos.1 at Rom.9:24-26).

Again, Paul says that believing Gentiles partake in the COVENANTS (Eph.2:12); the covenants are between God and ISRAEL (e.g., Jer.31:33); thus believing Gentiles are accepted as ISRAELITES.

Again, the land is promised to Abraham through Isaac through JACOB (Israel); and even believing GENTILES share in this inheritance (Gal.3:29;Mt.5:5).

And, Paul AFFIRMS the legitimacy of Torah-obedient Gentiles (Rom.2:27); and Torah is for ISRAELITES (Mal.4:4); thus, Paul confirms the legitimacy of Torah-obedient Gentiles as Israelites.

 

And yes, Jesus can also be identified as ISRAEL in the prophets.

 

Glad to see you already know all these things!

 

blessings...

 

 

[JohnD]

One more thing... torah obedient = faith in Messiah

(who fulfills all Torah and imputes to us that

righteousness for all eternity)

Note my signature under my icon as to where I am. Smile.

[BibleGuy]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

One more thing... torah obedient = faith in Messiah

(who fulfills all Torah and imputes to us that

righteousness for all eternity)

Note my signature under my icon as to where I am. Smile.

Nice!

I'd just add that RIGHTEOUSNESS has two components:  Imputation AND our works that we DO.

Some of our brothers/sisters in Christ only emphasize the IMPUTATION....and they neglect the DOING component of righteousness.

After all, righteousness is something we DO (1Jn.2:29;3:7;2Ti.3:16;Dt.6:25) or else we are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

But, I trust you already understand this.....just thought I'd put it out there...

blessings...

 

[JohnD]

I am grateful we agree on the identity of the believer of the Israeli / Jewish Messiah.

I trust another thread would be best suited to debate what is and what is not

expected of the believer once we become one.

Suffice it to say, our lack of DOING cannot cancel the WORK

of Messiah.

I agree we are not to just sit on our hands or to misuse 

God's GRACE as a license to sin.

God forbid!

BUT,

We cannot lose that which we did not earn in the first place (Ephesians 8-10 / 1 Corinthians 5:5) or

that is safeguarded by the Father and the Son (John 10:27-29 / Jeremiah 32:40).

I presume you understand this already. Smile

 

[JohnD]

James 2:10 (AV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Our only hope to keep Torah is by the imputed righteousness of the only man (God-man)

who perfectly kept it. And that imputed righteousness makes up the vast deficiency in our

keeping Torah. 

This is what is meant by:

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

This actually frees us from being compelled to keep laws to lovingly desiring to do for our loving God what he wills.

This is what King David (a man after God's own heart) thoroughly understood. 

It was not from his acts of courage or his "sinless life" ← which we could go to scripture and list how untrue that is...

it was his absolute trust in the LORD to make up the difference in the deficiencies in his life.

This is a point God was trying to get across to mankind from the very beginning.

Edited December 12, 2019 by JohnD

[BibleGuy]

54 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I am grateful we agree on the identity of the believer of the Israeli / Jewish Messiah.

I trust another thread would be best suited to debate what is and what is not

expected of the believer once we become one.

Suffice it to say, our lack of DOING cannot cancel the WORK

of Messiah.

I agree we are not to just sit on our hands or to misuse 

God's GRACE as a license to sin.

God forbid!

BUT,

We cannot lose that which we did not earn in the first place (Ephesians 8-10 / 1 Corinthians 5:5) or

that is safeguarded by the Father and the Son (John 10:27-29 / Jeremiah 32:40).

I presume you understand this already. Smile

 

Well said!

blessings..