Playing the 'Troop Morale' Card

[nebula]

Whether you believe we are doing good there or not, the vast majority of people there don't see it that way, so in the final analysis we have already lost the war there.

How do you know?

[Cerran]

Look at Vietnam, Korea, and South American countries where we propped up dictators for your answer.

[Constant]

We invaded a country because that is where the terrorist are doing their battling.

[Guest charlie]

We invaded a country because that is where the terrorist are doing their battling

They weren't in Iraq before we invaded; they've poured in since. It looks to me like the people who SHOULD be most upset about this BIG LIE that was perpetrated on the American people are those in the military; those most likely to die for this BIG LIE.

[ted]

Need I remind you of Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation, German occupation of France, Poland and other countries. In every case the occupying force lost because the people did not want them there.

Oh yeah, them French just came out in droves to protect the motherland. How about the Poles? Seems to me, they had a little help there, now didn't they? Care to name the country that came across the pond to liberate most of Europe?

You bring up a fairly valid point with the Afghans, though. They did a wonderful job with our Stinger missiles against the Russians. Plus, our Special Forces showed them how to take advantage of their own terrain, and ambush any Russian troop convoy in the mountains, which was the single most important mistake of the Russian invasion: they did most of their operations on the ground. If you knew what you were talking about, you would see that we do most of our moving by air, hence the greater success, so far.

There are, of course, a few exceptions to that rule, such as what we had recently with the Chinook getting nailed while trying to get the SEAL's out near A-bad.

Cerran, you do so much better when you stick to subjects you know about.

They weren't in Iraq before we invaded; they've poured in since. It looks to me like the people who SHOULD be most upset about this BIG LIE that was perpetrated on the American people are those in the military; those most likely to die for this BIG LIE.

But we are not upset, for the most part. Why?

Is it simply a matter of over a million people being "brainwashed"? New recruits are down, but reenlistments are up. How could that be? The bonuses? Not hardly. For anyone that is even remotely against the war, no amount of money is going to make them stay in the military, knowing that they will be deployed.

Seems to me, the ones that have a little idea of what is going on are sticking around for a while, while the ones that don't have a clue are being scared off by a bunch of talk.

Just my opinion, of course, but what you guys that are not in right now are missing is the feeling you get when a little Afghan child puts his arms around you and stutters, in the only English he knows: "Thank you". What you are missing is the out pouring of love and the sense of real accomplishment you get when a battle-hardened General of the Afghan Army says to you: "Thank you for being here. The Taliban killed what was left of my family that survived the Russian Invasion". What you are missing is the smiles you see on Afghan girls when they see the new school in their village being opened, knowing that they can come and learn again. What you are missing is the desire in these people's faces when they sense that they have a bit of hope again. You don't get that from most of these internet sites, newspapers, news reports, or some chicken-little Congressman that runs around making a fool of himself. All of these thing were part of my experience there.

I am 100% certain that those that have gone to Iraq have had the joy of similar feelings and experiences. Not all of them, of course, but I would say most.

Don't get me wrong, you don't get most of this from Bush, either. What you get from him is the bright, sunny political picture of newly established "democracies" and the like. You can't get this stuff from him, you have to dig deeper than that.

But make no mistake, it's out there.

If that little bit of information doesn't sit well with anyone's little agenda or support their view of this war against terrorist factions, than I can't do much else. What is happening is that people on both sides of the issue are only taking what fits their little version of what is going on, and discounting the rest. Doing that produces only the results you wish to have. We have to look at all sides of the issues, and skim away the bull to see the many things that are going on. Looking at things from all angles, no one can say it is all good, nor all bad.

The US has done some very bad things, which we call mistakes. But, the truth is, some very bad things were done on purpose, as well. There's no use denying what is truth. On the flip side, the US has done some very good things, some of which were intentional, and some were the result of things gone seemingly bad, but with good results. The same is true for most any other nation on earth, today or otherwise.

Over all, all war stinks, but some wars must be fought regardless. This, I believe, is one that must be fought regardless. For all the good and bad that has come of it, and all the good and bad that will certainly come yet still, it is one we must engage in.

Leaving is not an option. Not until it's done, anyway.

Hopefully, the rest of it can take place over a table somewhere, instead of someone's backyard.

Ours or theirs.

t.

[apothanein kerdos]

Btw Ted, as a side note CNN and MSNBC reported that the SEAL team that lost two men had a 60 to one kill ratio....in other terms, while they lost two SEALS, they killed over 120 Afgan fighters...and if I remember correctly, it was just four SEALS...

Pretty amazing if you ask me.

[ted]

The SEALs are an extremely effective group.

Btw, I think there is still one missing of the four that were out there. One was rescued, two were killed, and one remains missing. I haven't checked the news this morning, but he was still MIA as of last night. Still no word as to his status, that I know of.

Let us pray for his safety, as well as the safety of the Afghans, as well. It's hard to turn people around with the message of Christ if they are dead. Hopefully, they can come to Jesus rather than continue to attack. This war will continue until they stop their attacks.

t.

[Leonard]

What a surprise! Again Charlie and Cerran are the American voice of Al Qaeda.

With friends like these.......

[Guest charlie]

What a surprise!

Edited July 7, 2005 by Ovedya

[nebula]

Bring the trooops home now . . .

And the terrorists will believe they won and be encouraged to keep terrorizing.

Bad idea.

Based on what past events? Can you name a place in history to back up your rhetoric?

Please don't insult the intelligence of everyone here with unsubstantiated statements like this. At least back it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

You believe that if we leave now:

the terrorists won't think they scared us away;

they won't be encouraged to keep blowing up the Iraqi police force that has been established;

they won't try to take over Iraq;

they won't support Hamas in attemting to terrorize the Jews out of Israel;

but rather the Muslims will thank us and be happy with us and put down their arms;

the world will be in peace and harmony'

and we'll all join hands and sing, "We Are the World."

Post Article

Sorry, Cerran, but if you wnt to sway Conservatives, I highly recommend not using the Washington Post as a source.

That paper is known by us to be so liberally biased as to not be a credible source for commentary.

I do think the average Joe in the military is starting to catch on though.....and questioning a little more.

Well, since Ted is actually in the military, I think I'll take his word on what "the average Joe in the military" is believing.