The powerlessness of Grace when mixed with the Law

[JustPassingThru]

2 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

In regards to the electric bill.... yes I keep paying it as I keep using it. When I quit paying, I can expect that it is just a matter of time before it is cut off. 

Friend, I used "paying" the electric bill as an "illustration" to try and show that Jesus "accomplished" the Law for us.

So may I continue on with this "illustration" in relation to what you have said?

Yes, you are paying your electric bill, everyone of them?, how many years is that since the first one, from the very "first" bill, over and over every month, ...that means you must be a very rich person to be paying the "accumulated" price of those years of bills, ...and you are probably the only "one" that is doing that which makes the Electric Company very happy with you, ...you are their "favorite" customer!

Or 

For the first 10 months that you paid your electric bill you have completed the ten Laws and now every month after that, how many years would that be?, ...you are "adding" new laws to the original ten......

2 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

Jesus, our Lord and Messiah, did keep the law. He walked in obedience, observing the law. He set the perfect example as to how we are to walk in our own lives.

I agree, you have that part right.

2 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

He didn't do this just so we could rest, do nothing and ignore His laws.

If we truly understand what we agree on, then we see, know, understand that "only" the God-Man Jesus Christ, the Second Adam could "keep" the Law, ...we were "conceived" in sin and the very first act of sin, the proof of that reality is the very first manifestation of our prideful nature, ...it was that selfish cry as a new born baby, "Feed me NOW!"  With no concern for our exhausted mother...

3 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

As Paul said, I will bring my body under subjection, He also speaks of running a race and striving... why all the effort is all he has to do is rest.  It is a race I am running, the Lord strengthens me in it and lifts me where I am about to fall. It is a race well worth running....

 

Yes, I bring my body under subjection, when my flesh is "tempted" to sin, I don't look for which of the 10 Law it concerns,

...Jesus condensed the 10 into 2 for us, ...and the Holy Spirit writing "only" what He hears Jesus say, shows us through John that Jesus is telling us, after the dispensation of Law and during the dispensation of Grace (when we are born again so that we can understand "spiritually" what He has said and is saying to His Church John 16:12)  the two Laws are in reality only one, ...Love. 

So "how" do I bring my body into "subjection," by "physically" attempting to "keep" one of the ten Laws of the Old Testament, ...or by "spiritually saying from my heart,

Jesus, ...I Love You and I don't want to be responsible for any more of the torture You suffered and endured for me. 

Yes I'm running a race, ...see the above answer.

Striving, ...see above answer.

Resting, ...Absolutely, ...IN Him, and I have "heeded" His warning to us of NOT entering in to the REST Jesus has "accomplished" for us of "obeying" the Law, ...just like He has explained for us in Hebrews 4.

3 hours ago, Tigger56 said:

so get your shoes own, enough resting, run brother run...

Never did like to run and now, Praise the Lord, ...I'm to old to run, ....maybe an "occasional" fast walk, ...but I did learn from Paul how to use "illustrations" that people are familiar with, ...like "paying" electric bills, ...please, understand, I "am" walking towards a finish line, ...not in some a physical manifestation, ...but in a spiritual "sense" as the Holy Spirit, NOT me, ...is "conforming" me into the image of my Lord, ...and that image is His Love, ...which in reality can be "observed" in the physical realm.

May I humbly suggest you try it, ...take off those running shoes, and just "rest" in the Lord, ...like "Paul" said, ...Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?   Gal 3:3

Lord bless

 

[Behold]

On 2/4/2020 at 5:24 AM, Neighbor said:

Not my faith but Christ Jesus' faith. For my faith fails me, my Lord's does not. He does the will of His Father. I cannot rely  on even the work of my own faith. I lean on that  of Jesus alone.

Grace is all of God and none of me.

Just as we are made righteous by the Blood of Jesus and the "gift of righteousness"...., our faith is also made perfect by  The Christ.

Hebrews 12:2  (KJV)

2 ""Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith""

[Behold]

On 2/4/2020 at 7:02 AM, Tigger56 said:

When people tell me that I do not have to observe the law, that is pretty comprehensive in nature. So which law listed isn't good and should be ignored?

 

 I've never met, heard, or seen preached, or heard preached..... or myself preached any message that says that Grace is a License to sin.

This message does not exist, but there are a lot of people  (Legalists) who pretend that to preach Grace as Jesus taught Paul to understand it..... and preach it, is this "license to sin".

Jude says that one of the end time "signs" is that the world will be filled with fake Christian heretics, all preaching that Grace is a license to sin.

Thats interesting isn't it?  As you can't find one "christian" forum that does not allow this heresy to be Threaded and Threaded and on and on................... 

And one more. .. You are to please God by living a holy life.  The 12 commandments....2 by Jesus and 10 by Moses, are a lifestyle boundary that we as believers are to exits within.  They are our literal boundary that keeps us as God would have us BEHAVE.

We are to present our bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE.   We are to take up our Cross DAILY.  We are to be in the world and not of the world.

WE are to get offline, off the CABLE TV, and OFF THE THE CELL PHONE TEXT MADNESS, and get a BIBLE and study it, and live a life that directs people to the CROSS.

However.....= the Devil's TWIST comes in, the heresy comes in, the cross denying legalism that spits in the face of God...comes in,  when someone preaches and teaches that living holy is how to be saved and not living holy, is how to be damned, = in place of BEING BORN AGAIN and accepted and Kept by GOD by "justification by Faith".....ALONE. 

THAT is the devil's gospel.  (Self saving by commandment keeping, and doing WORKS)...... That is "falling from Grace" theology.  That is taking the cross out of Salvation and putting self righteousness in its place.

That is Galatians 1:8

Edited February 7, 2020 by Behold

[Tigger56]

10 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

Friend, I used "paying" the electric bill as an "illustration" to try and show that Jesus "accomplished" the Law for us.

So may I continue on with this "illustration" in relation to what you have said?

Yes, you are paying your electric bill, everyone of them?, how many years is that since the first one, from the very "first" bill, over and over every month, ...that means you must be a very rich person to be paying the "accumulated" price of those years of bills, ...and you are probably the only "one" that is doing that which makes the Electric Company very happy with you, ...you are their "favorite" customer!

Or 

For the first 10 months that you paid your electric bill you have completed the ten Laws and now every month after that, how many years would that be?, ...you are "adding" new laws to the original ten......

I agree, you have that part right.

If we truly understand what we agree on, then we see, know, understand that "only" the God-Man Jesus Christ, the Second Adam could "keep" the Law, ...we were "conceived" in sin and the very first act of sin, the proof of that reality is the very first manifestation of our prideful nature, ...it was that selfish cry as a new born baby, "Feed me NOW!"  With no concern for our exhausted mother...

 

Yes, I bring my body under subjection, when my flesh is "tempted" to sin, I don't look for which of the 10 Law it concerns,

...Jesus condensed the 10 into 2 for us, ...and the Holy Spirit writing "only" what He hears Jesus say, shows us through John that Jesus is telling us, after the dispensation of Law and during the dispensation of Grace (when we are born again so that we can understand "spiritually" what He has said and is saying to His Church John 16:12)  the two Laws are in reality only one, ...Love. 

So "how" do I bring my body into "subjection," by "physically" attempting to "keep" one of the ten Laws of the Old Testament, ...or by "spiritually saying from my heart,

Jesus, ...I Love You and I don't want to be responsible for any more of the torture You suffered and endured for me. 

Yes I'm running a race, ...see the above answer.

Striving, ...see above answer.

Resting, ...Absolutely, ...IN Him, and I have "heeded" His warning to us of NOT entering in to the REST Jesus has "accomplished" for us of "obeying" the Law, ...just like He has explained for us in Hebrews 4.

Never did like to run and now, Praise the Lord, ...I'm to old to run, ....maybe an "occasional" fast walk, ...but I did learn from Paul how to use "illustrations" that people are familiar with, ...like "paying" electric bills, ...please, understand, I "am" walking towards a finish line, ...not in some a physical manifestation, ...but in a spiritual "sense" as the Holy Spirit, NOT me, ...is "conforming" me into the image of my Lord, ...and that image is His Love, ...which in reality can be "observed" in the physical realm.

May I humbly suggest you try it, ...take off those running shoes, and just "rest" in the Lord, ...like "Paul" said, ...Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?   Gal 3:3

Lord bless

 

Nay.... I will run with Paul and the other men and women of God before me, if fact I will rise up with eagle's wings as well. As for the last quote, I don't expect to be made perfect by the flesh, the ways of the flesh and the ways of the world are being worldly is the way  of sin. I will bring my body in subjection and will run the race pleasing before the Lord and recognize that it is Christ in me that will bring the perfection when I rise to a spiritual body for the corruptible must put on incorruption.

As far as your quote on the electric bill and company ....

Friend, I used "paying" the electric bill as an "illustration" to try and show that Jesus "accomplished" the Law for us.

So may I continue on with this "illustration" in relation to what you have said?

Yes, you are paying your electric bill, everyone of them?, how many years is that since the first one, from the very "first" bill, over and over every month, ...that means you must be a very rich person to be paying the "accumulated" price of those years of bills, ...and you are probably the only "one" that is doing that which makes the Electric Company very happy with you, ...you are their "favorite" customer!

Or 

For the first 10 months that you paid your electric bill you have completed the ten Laws and now every month after that, how many years would that be?, ...you are "adding" new laws to the original ten......

 

You lost me. Your analogy doesn't make sense to me. But yes every month I use electricity and every month I pay my bill, what can I say I like light at night, heat in the cold and cold in the heat.

As far as analogy to the law.... I haven't added to any of them, I am simply obeying the ones given to us by God the Father and God our Savior. In the race I am running, Jesus is the Way and the law is what helps keep me traveling in that Way.

[JustPassingThru]

29 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

You lost me. Your analogy doesn't make sense to me.

Exactly!!!

You are trying to "keep" the Law that only "One" man can/could/did, ...the God-Man, the second Adam, ...Jesus of Nazareth. 

You are "trying" to add your works of keeping the Law to the "finished" work of Jesus, ...the "work" Jesus "accomplished" for you personally.

You keep paying the same electric bill (Law) that Jesus has already paid, ...not 2,000 years ago on the Cross, ...but waay back in Eternity past Rev 13:8b:

...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Here's another "way" to look at it, ...do you perfectly "keep" the Law every moment of every day 24/7?

Of course not, you/we are not God, ...so what do "you" do when you "think" in your mind an unkind thought towards someone? Jesus said you have broken and have committed the Law of Murder, ...our what about that lustful thought you had about that sexy girl you saw? Jesus said you have broken and committed the Law of Adultery.

You, who wants me to follow the Law, ...God's "Law" says "you" personally must offer a sacrifice on the alter in "His" Temple in Jerusalem,

...so tell me Law keeper, how do you "keep" God's Law and do that? 

[Alive]

Brethren--the way we run the race is by first 'entering His rest'. It is from that high place 'In Christ' from the heavenly place, that running the race that pleases our Father begins and ends as He provides the strength and endurance. That place is in the arms of His Grace. As soon as we step outside the realm of His Grace, we start running on our own fuel. Its fun and profitable to study the scriptures that mention running and in their respective context.

Please be sure to keep in mind that this is not about obtaining salvation, but rather the adventure of living as sons while in these earthen vessels.

Eph. 3:20   ^aNow to Him who is ^bable to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, ^caccording to the power that works within us,

Rom. 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who ^aruns, but on ^bGod who has mercy.

1Cor. 9:24   ^aDo you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives ^bthe prize? ^cRun in such a way that you may win.

1Cor. 9:26 Therefore I ^arun in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not ^bbeating the air;

Gal. 2:2 ¹It was because of a ^arevelation that I went up; and I submitted to them the ^bgospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but I did so in private to those who were of reputation, for fear that I might be ^crunning, or had run, in vain.

Gal. 5:7   You were ^arunning well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

Phil. 2:16 holding ¹fast the word of life, so that in ^athe day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not ^brun in vain nor ^ctoil in vain.

[Tigger56]

13 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

Exactly!!!

You are trying to "keep" the Law that only "One" man can/could/did, ...the God-Man, the second Adam, ...Jesus of Nazareth. 

You are "trying" to add your works of keeping the Law to the "finished" work of Jesus, ...the "work" Jesus "accomplished" for you personally.

You keep paying the same electric bill (Law) that Jesus has already paid, ...not 2,000 years ago on the Cross, ...but waay back in Eternity past Rev 13:8b:

...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Here's another "way" to look at it, ...do you perfectly "keep" the Law every moment of every day 24/7?

Of course not, you/we are not God, ...so what do "you" do when you "think" in your mind an unkind thought towards someone? Jesus said you have broken and have committed the Law of Murder, ...our what about that lustful thought you had about that sexy girl you saw? Jesus said you have broken and committed the Law of Adultery.

You, who wants me to follow the Law, ...God's "Law" says "you" personally must offer a sacrifice on the alter in "His" Temple in Jerusalem,

...so tell me Law keeper, how do you "keep" God's Law and do that? 

I do accept Jesus as my personal Savior, my Messiah and King. I obey him. The law isn't something separate, it is part of following my Savior. He kept the law perfectly, I do not but I obey and do my best knowing that he forgives, strengthens and guides me. You are right that the greatest battle is in the mind, but I hate no one, I am happily married and turn my eyes from things that are inappropriate. As Job, I make a covenant with my eyes. All of that is my following my Lord.

If you don't think following the law is the path to follow. Then what do you do? Do you hate and let it be treated as murder? Do you lust after women? Do you lie as a regular basis? Do you worship other God? Are you a proponent of adultery?  I am betting that you are none of those things, because as a Christian you try to emulate your Savior both in his example and in his teachings. That, my friend, is the law. I stated earlier that if all were honest to themselves, there is only one commandment they want to deny and that is the fourth one, the Sabbath.

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

I do accept Jesus as my personal Savior, my Messiah and King. I obey him. The law isn't something separate, it is part of following my Savior. He kept the law perfectly, I do not but I obey and do my best knowing that he forgives, strengthens and guides me. You are right that the greatest battle is in the mind, but I hate no one, I am happily married and turn my eyes from things that are inappropriate. As Job, I make a covenant with my eyes. All of that is my following my Lord.

If you don't think following the law is the path to follow. Then what do you do? Do you hate and let it be treated as murder? Do you lust after women? Do you lie as a regular basis? Do you worship other God? Are you a proponent of adultery?  I am betting that you are none of those things, because as a Christian you try to emulate your Savior both in his example and in his teachings. That, my friend, is the law. I stated earlier that if all were honest to themselves, there is only one commandment they want to deny and that is the fourth one, the Sabbath.

God bless you brother. I hear you and see that you are sincere and love the Lord. The things that some folks are wanting to share and emphasize is where we place our ultimate trust. Is it in the Grace of God and the blood of Christ, or is it in our own efforts to please. It can be subtle in experience, but is significant for our experience of Him in our daily walks.

Humans have a built in machine that wants to 'do something' and that is a great and proper driving influence in all areas but one. We cannot save ourselves and neither do we need to keep ourselves saved. This does not necessarily change the actual visible lives we live, but it does influence what is happening within us and either hinders or allows a free flow of the Life within us to energize.

To some this sort of dialog is a distinction without a difference, but it is. The difference is 'rest' in Him. I often think about sitting in an easy chair. I repose in a state of 'rest' in that easy chair just as I do 'In Christ'. The reality is--I run faster and jump higher from that place of 'rest' than from the ready position on the track or while jumping hurdles. This is contrary to the natural mind and the tendency for that need to 'be active' in our own natural strength. This is the lesson of Jacob. A man who had great natural strength and talent that he employed for most of his life until the wrestling match with the Lord. That encounter wounded and cut to the core of his natural strength. Thereafter, Jacob walked with a limp and his Name was changed. He learned that he could do nothing without God and it fundamentally changed him and his way of running. The Lord wants us to give up and to give in.

[JustPassingThru]

17 minutes ago, Tigger56 said:

If you don't think following the law is the path to follow.

But you haven't answered my question about "keeping" the Law of "offering" sacrifices for your sin in God's Temple in Jerusalem, ...so, are you"ignoring" God's Law, or are "you choosing which of them "you"chose to keep?

Let's add to that, ...you say you use the example of Paul "running" the race...

Did Paul "keep the Law, ...did he teach us in his letters to "keep" the Law?

 

[FresnoJoe]

16 hours ago, Yishai said:

Its all about the false statements of what does or does not apply to His people....
and the Fact is All of the law, confirmed by The Messiah, Applies to His People....

not one person is or ever has been Saved By the law....
and the law still stands as well for His people.....

Its always been a false teaching people are saved by Torah....
likewise a false teaching its abolished....

Amen~! The Law (God's Instructions) Are Pure And True 
Yet They Can Never Save A Fellow

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Romans 3:19-20

Only The Blood Of Christ
Will Save 

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. Romans 3:27

~

Love, Your Brother Joe

Edited February 7, 2020 by FresnoJoe