Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[iamlamad]

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Wow. You don't know the difference between the tribulation and the wrath of God. You also don't know the order of Revelation. I would say "Let's learn, shall we?" but I know it would be a waste of effort. Ah, here's a spoiler: The 1260 days is after the 70th week.

I guess it is you who don't know - but thinks they do. The truth is, the ENTIRE 70th WEEK comes with God's wrath, because John is very clear, God begins His wrath before the week begins and continues His wrath through the entire week. 

How could ANYONE miss it when John has outlined the 70th week so clearly, showing is FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS to count the last half of the week. Well, apparently someone can and does.

[The Light]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I guess it is you who don't know - but thinks they do. The truth is, the ENTIRE 70th WEEK comes with God's wrath, because John is very clear, God begins His wrath before the week begins and continues His wrath through the entire week. 

How could ANYONE miss it when John has outlined the 70th week so clearly, showing is FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS to count the last half of the week. Well, apparently someone can and does.

John does outline the 70th week perfectly. It is over at the 6th seal when Jesus returns.

[The Light]

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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WHO HAVE THE TESTIMONY of Jesus or keep the Commandments of God which they do not if they are the 2/3. God is not giving us some passage that describes a Few Jews who REPENTED in America but didn't make it to Petra, Hes giving us the BIG PICTURE, the 1/3 are chased and PROTECTED and the Remnant of Her SEED {Jesus} is the Church.

The remnant of her seed is the Jews that are scattered across earth, that are still alive. The Church is already gone.

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The Rapture happens pre 70th week, not just before the Seal, but 3.5 years before the Seals are opened !!

Can you produce a scripture that supports this? Or is this an error?

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Between the RAPTURE and the First Seal being opened {which begins the DOTL} there are many Gentiles saved and thus they are the Martyrs under the Altar, not the Jews per se, though a few may be the Martyrs also, THE MARTYRS are speaking about the Gentile Remnant Church. It doesn't matter who understand this or not, its not changing.

Nope, after the rapture of the church, God turns His attention to His people. That's why it's the time of Jacobs trouble.

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i am through debating this, if you can't grasp it, I shant chew my cud over and over. The Remnant is the Church on earth who give their lives to Christ DURING the 70th week Tribulation period and lay down their lives. The 1/3 are protected the 2/3 do not SERVE God !! FACTS.

Not sure why you don't understand why there are Jews scattered across the earth. Millions and millions of the them. It has nothing to do with the Jews in Israel.

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So since the VAST MAJORITY of the Church are seen in Heaven in Rev. 4 and 5 and in Rev. 9-17, doesn't that mean the Church on earth is a REMNANT? 

No, the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and God turns His attention to His people. The remnant of the woman's seed are the Jews across the earth.

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I know, but you seem to be arguing for a Pre Seal Rapture as in JUST BEFORE the Seals are opened, which would not be a pre 70th week Rapture. Am I mistaken on this? 

You are correct that I believe in a pretrib rapture of the Church before the seals are opened. That will set things in motion as the world will be in turmoil. Then when the covenant is confirmed it is the time of Jacobs trouble and the week begins.  I also believe in a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes that are across the earth. This does not include the nation of Israel. They go through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

 

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I don't think the Jews will be all over the Earth by this time, I think they will be in Israel for the most part. Remember, this comes 3.5 years AFTER the Rapture so they can see what is coming.

No, there will be everywhere. God knows who they are. What are you saying happens 3.5 years after the rapture

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The BLINDNESS does not describe Jews per se, it does, but it is speaking about the Blindness of the Nation as a whole. Once ENOUGH Jews Repent God then sees them as a National Entity who are His Bride once again.

The blindness does describe the Jews, as the scripture confirms.

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The Time of Jacobs Troubles AND God's Wrath covers the exact same 42 month period of time.

Just use common sense here. The woman has a place prepared for her.  Does this sound like Jacobs trouble?

Rev 12

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

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The 144,000 are more like 2 million Jews. Is a Metaphor for ALL Israel. Seeing as 12 is the number that stands for FULLNESS we can see that 12 x 12,000 = ALL Israel as Paul stated in Rom. 11 quoting Isaiah of course. In essence LOOK at where the 144,000 are seen, LOOK........LOOK.........LOOK......See it ?

The 144,000 is an exact number. They do not represent 2 million Jews. They are just what God says they are 12,000 from each tribe. They are the 1st fruits that are redeemed from the earth. This 144,000 first fruits is what guarantees the prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth.

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The Seals are whats COMING over the 42 month period of time,

No, the seals are what happens over the 70th week of Daniel. This seven years and then the 42 month wrath of God happens.

 

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not what is happening at that exact moment. Jesus is opening all 7 Seals on Day 1261, thus there is 1260 days left for the Beast to RULE Israel/Jerusalem and the MANY [Nations] in the Region. 

The 1st 6 seals are a 7 year period, the 70th week of Daniel. The 7th seal lasts 3.5 years.

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So BEFORE the Judgments start we see the 144,000 being SEALED {Reaching Petra

The Jews that are being sealed have absolutely nothing to do the Jews in the nation of Israel.

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God Bless.....I don't conform to men's ideas.....I call upon God for His answers.

I know that you think that the time, times and half a time occurs during the 70th week. It does not. It is easy to prove that it does not, so I'm not sure why you can't see it.

BTW, here is one proof that what you are saying is incorrect. In your past post you have said that the 1st 3.5 years is basically peaceful for Israel. Then the last 3.5 years things are tough. So how can this be correct. The 70th week is the time of Jacobs trouble and you have peace in your time line the 1st 3.5 years and you have Israel fleeing to a place of protection the last 3.5 years. Doesn't make sense. How could it be the time of Jacobs trouble?

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by The Light

[Revelation Man]

21 hours ago, The Light said:

John does outline the 70th week perfectly. It is over at the 6th seal when Jesus returns.

No........Jesus Raptures us PRE 70th week and returns at the 7th Vial. 

10 hours ago, The Light said:

The remnant of her seed is the Jews that are scattered across earth, that are still alive. The Church is already gone.

 

Which is by they are a REMNANT. The Church is gone........its simplistic language.

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Can you produce a scripture that supports this? Or is this an error?

 

Can you cite a SPECIFIC Scripture that says the Rapture is at the 6th Seal ? NO......But I can provide evidence to those who understand Scriptures and the bible is for those of us who understand God's Parables/Word, not fir the world. Why do you think Paul called it a Secret/Mystery ? Because the Rapture is specifivc to the Gentile Church, this it wasn't given unto the Jews overtly, but just in hints, in the Old Testament.

You first clue is go back, reread Jesus on the Marriage chapters !! He gives you all the clues you need via pointing to the Church being his Bride. The Jewish Wedding Tradition ALWAYS had a 7 day Betrothal period where the son takes the bride to the fathers house for SEVEN DAYS !! Where the Marriage is Consummated. The Church is Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened, you admit that, then forget that the AGREEMENT {Covenant means agreement in Hebrew} between this Anti-Christ and THE MANY {which includes Israel} is for ONE WEEK or 7 years, this the First Seal is opened in the middle ofbthe Week and we see the Church is in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened. 

The Church is TAKEN to be with Jesus for 7 years in the Fathers Mansion !! {I have a place prepared FOR YOU if I go I will come again and receive you unto myself} Its a Jewish Wedding Pattern. The Jews 69th year of Judgment ended with Jesus' death, and the Gentiles being given the Mantle of the Gospel. When the TIME of the Gentiles is come FULL, we will be Raptured and ONLY THEN will the 70th week start. How long is that week supposed to last brother ? 7 Years so we can figure this out, the 70th week has no Christians from the Church Age in it, there are some who become Christians AFTER the Rapture, they are the Remnant Church. Google The Jewish Wedding Pattern Luke 8:10 {I don't know who its by, but it is an awesome teaching.

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Nope, after the rapture of the church, God turns His attention to His people. That's why it's the time of Jacobs trouble.

 

God's on word states you are in error. I would that NO MAN should perish. God does no such thing, God loves ALL MEN at ALL TIMES. God can do two things at once, what we call walking and chewing gum at the same time.

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Not sure why you don't understand why there are Jews scattered across the earth. Millions and millions of the them. It has nothing to do with the Jews in Israel.

 

I do understand, its nor RELEVANT, the Jews can not be the REMNANT, the Remnant can only be the 1/3, and they are Protected. Can the 2/3 be a REMNANT when they are the Majority ? 

10 hours ago, The Light said:

No, the fullness of the Gentiles comes in and God turns His attention to His people. The remnant of the woman's seed are the Jews across the earth.

 

 

10 hours ago, The Light said:

You are correct that I believe in a pretrib rapture of the Church before the seals are opened. That will set things in motion as the world will be in turmoil. Then when the covenant is confirmed it is the time of Jacobs trouble and the week begins.  I also believe in a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes that are across the earth. This does not include the nation of Israel. They go through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

 

The AGREEMENT/Covenant is Confirmed 3.5 years BEFORE the Seals are opened. Do you not get that ? The Jews ARE NOT RAPTURED, have you not read the Parable of the Wheat and Tares ? They GROW TOGETHER until THE END Brother. See Rev. 14, its The Harvest chapter. The Jews are seen on Mt Zion with Jesus because he picks them up {at least metaphorically} from the Petra/Bozrah area, I gave that to you a few days ago. He comes into Jerusalem with a WINE STAINED Garment {Wine-press of God's Wrath}. 

10 hours ago, The Light said:

No, there will be everywhere. God knows who they are. What are you saying happens 3.5 years after the rapture

 

Well I don't agree, and I have been studying this for 40 years and preaching for over 30 years. You are not ever going to meet anyone that has more knowledge on the book of Daniel and Revelation than me, that is what God called me to via His first vision to me in 1986. I wasted about 25 years doing what you are doing, following Men's Traditions instead of hearing God on prophecy.

Look at a couple of my Blogs.....the Last one on Daniel chapters 11 and 12 is very comprehensive, I lay out who EVERY King in Daniel 11 is and how he came to power and who each player in each verse is. 

Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/203449-babylon-the-harlot-and-the-seven-headed-beast-explained/

 

Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/223437-daniel-11-12-historically-explained-step-by-step/

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by George
Removed comments that became personal ... please discuss the topic without demeaning members. :). Thanks

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

The blindness does describe the Jews, as the scripture confirms.

 

Wrong, it describes THE NATION, if God blinded every Jew then sent them to hell that would not be a JUST DECISION. The IN PART mean s as a Nation they have been blinded, but as individual Jews they are held responsible for their own choices. The WORLD is Blind also, you d get that right ? Israel used to SEE, now they are BLINDED like the World. They will see soon.

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Just use common sense here. The woman has a place prepared for her.  Does this sound like Jacobs trouble?

Rev 12

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Yes, she has to live in the Wilderness whilst her kin folks who did not repent are Killed. If you and I were in lets sat the Badlands of Utah, and God protected us, but our Families/uncles/aunts/kids etc. were being killed that would be TROUBLES sir. These things have to be thought through. We can't just try to prove our points, that doesn't work with God brother.

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Just use common sense here. The woman has a place prepared for her.  Does this sound like Jacobs trouble?

Rev 12

⁶ And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

NO....You just don't get the Metaphor, even when its explained. Its funny, people understand the Beast is not really a Beast and the Dragon is Satan, and the Woman = Israel, but the 144,000 CAB'T E A Metaphor, even though it is !! 

5 hours ago, The Light said:

No, the seals are what happens over the 70th week of Daniel. This seven years and then the 42 month wrath of God happens.

 

Wrong, the AGREEMENTS are BROKEN in the Middle of the week. Not at the beginning of the week. Your TIMING is way off !! On everything brother.

5 hours ago, The Light said:

The 1st 6 seals are a 7 year period, the 70th week of Daniel. The 7th seal lasts 3.5 years.

 

All 7 Seals are opened on ONE DAY........Day 1261.

5 hours ago, The Light said:

No, the seals are what happens over the 70th week of Daniel. This seven years and then the 42 month wrath of God happens.

 

It says so in the passage, if you would just listen..........HOLD OFF and HURT NOT the Sea, Trees and the Earth. 

5 hours ago, The Light said:

I know that you think that the time, times and half a time occurs during the 70th week. It does not. It is easy to prove that it does not, so I'm not sure why you can't see it.

BTW, here is one proof that what you are saying is incorrect. In your past post you have said that the 1st 3.5 years is basically peaceful for Israel. Then the last 3.5 years things are tough. So how can this be correct. The 70th week is the time of Jacobs trouble and you have peace in your time line the 1st 3.5 years and you have Israel fleeing to a place of protection the last 3.5 years. Doesn't make sense. How could it be the time of Jacobs trouble?

Because Jesus told the Disciples that they would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION, so the Church Age was 2000 plus years of Tribulation, that is why those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 are those that came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION as in 2000>7.

Likewise the last 7 years is TRIBULATION Also. And then we have the GREATEST TROUBLES EVER that last for 3.5 years. I have pondered all these things before brother, via God's guidance. That is why I have all the answers. I asked God to show me, and refuse to follow Men's Ideas any longer. 

God Bless.....YOUR TIMING is off kilter brother, its throwing your final analysis off a bit. Without proper timing its not possible to understand Revelation.

[Revelation Man]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:46 AM, Traveler said:

Well how about this;

 

How about what ? Do you even get the point ? He wanted to cite the Pre 70th week Rapture scripture, I asked him to cite the Pre Wrath Rapture scripture. 

READING the bible would tell you Paul told the Corinthians it was a SECRET {Musterion} or Mystery, which means it was a SHUTTING OF THE MOUTH or in other words, A Mystery by God's Silence on the subject. There ain't no great shakes to knowing its a Mysterty/Secret. Paul told us it was, all we have to do is read the bible.

On 3/26/2020 at 6:46 AM, Traveler said:

Here the men of the world are running away from Christ. This is in stark contrast to when Christ returns for the battle of Armageddon when the men of the earth are coming out to meet him in battle.

It is obvious that they recognized Christ for who he was and it is obvious that they feared him because they felt guilty before him. Which is not surprising considering all the saints they murdered in the fifth seal. But why did they see Christ. It is because every eye will see him when he comes back to gather his saints. And the men were ducking for cover because they were caught unprepared for Christ showing up and proving he is real. When it comes to the last battle though the men are prepared but think they have a chance to win.

Ummm, no, the Armageddon Events in Rev. 16:19, Rev. 14, Rev. 19 are all events in which Jesus SLAYS the Wicked via his Wine-press of Wrath. 

Nothing happens via the Seals until ALL 7 are opened, you do understand the Parchment can not be read until all 7 Seals come off right ? 

So Jesus is giving us a GLIMPSE AHEAD at what is coming once the Judgments start falling.

All 7 Seals are opened on day 1261, so over the next 1260 days THIS.....THIS.....THIS and THIS will come to pass as in the Anti-Christ Conquers, via War, famine follows, wars continue, deaths follow, sickness and Death becomes the norm, he kills the Martyrs etc. God's Wrath starts at the EXACT SAME TIME as the Anti-Christ is going forth to conquer on his 42 month binge of terror. God's Wrath also lasts 42 months.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Revelation Man

[XRose]

On 3/19/2020 at 1:22 PM, Last Daze said:

No they aren't.

• These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.  Revelation 11:4

They existed before Judah.  Read Genesis 18.  The two witnesses were with the Lord of the earth when He met Abraham, and they went on to Sodom to rescue the righteous and punish the wicked.

Those two were deadly angels on their way to take Lot and family out of Sodom before GOD threw 98% sulphur down to incinerate it.

On 3/19/2020 at 1:22 PM, Last Daze said:

 

 

 

[DeighAnn]

ITS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE  -  Satan is coming to deceive (IMO already doing a great job, just look at how, if you can't find a doctrine taught by God in the Word as a doctrine taught and if you are willing to toss out a bunch of Gods Truth, you can jump around, pick out verses that can be taken in various ways, set up your own interpretation for them, and proceed to make doctrines made to seem holy.  Never mind that the doctrine is never spoken of by Christ who foretold us all things)

Here's one, The Church of today is made of up the Gentiles.  House of Judah are the Jews of today and the House of Israel scattered through out the world, the ones Christ came for are ??????????  Doesn't matter that they, the gentiles, are the "grafted in" branches.  Doesn't matter that the bible never speaks to ALL the ones Christ CAME FOR have been cut off (which is exactly what would have to happen for that to be true, but when you need to "pre trib rap" and the bible tells you the Church will be here, you have to SAY SOMETHING to separate the Body of Christ so that doctrine will hold true)  BUT, in fact

The  Church is ONE BODY, many members with different duties and THE SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FOR A PRE TRIB gentile church IS NOT SPOKEN OF.  JESUS NEVER mentions it. So important and so taken WRONG from the beginning,  PAUL 3 TIMES BACK TO BACK (and if you study you know that repeating is to draw your attention to something being taught,  BUT 3 times is REALLY pushing to make sure you understand) saying in NO WAY and NEVER AND NOT ONCE IS "The Gathering, THE COMING, THE RETURN, THE DAY OF ETC" is spoken of as a PLURAL event.  (and if there is some "other theory" you have EVER heard of that this applies to, PLEASE let me know Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly).


The daily, since the time of Jesus, is OUR LOVE TO GOD. 

That (as in the loving the LORD)  is what is going to be taken away by the "great falling away".  They don't know it is being taken away.  God does.  THEY don't know they are being deceived. Jesus told them.   They don't know it isn't the true SON Of GOD.  They think "the one" performing great signs and wonders in front of their very eyes is the Son of God,  BUT IT just ISN'T.  It is the ANTI/INSTEAD of Christ.  THEY ARE NOW LOVING THE INSTEAD OF.  They only ones still loving God are those who are following the two witnesses God sends RIGHT before.  They have on gospel armor having RIGHTLY divided the Word of God.  

The temple
The temple is being built as it IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.  NOT MADE WITH HANDS, NOT MADE WITH WOOD AND STONE.  And that TEMPLE IS HERE ON EARTH right now. Better  START THINKING SPIRITUALLY and get out of the flesh/carnal mind set, calculating days THAT have been changed anyhow and/or setting the order by how you think it fits into feasts.  If it was set by feasts or was to be taught by the feasts, God would have written it that way.    THIS IS A WAR OF SPIRITUALITY. 
What is headed our way is going to be done WITH WORDS.  THE POWER IS IN THEIR MOUTHS.  The sting of death is what is happening to your SPIRIT.  SATAN IS AFTER SOULS.  WHY?  BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN SENTENCED TO DIE, HE HATES GOD AND KNOWS GOD LOVES HIS CHILDREN.  WHAT IS A BETTER WAY TO HURT GOD THAN TO DECEIVE THOSE WHO CLAIM TO LOVE YOU,  INTO LOVING HIM INSTEAD?   What are we told about death of the flesh?  Don't sweat it.  Death of the flesh is JUST A TRANSITION TO ANOTHER BETTER BODY AND LIFE (for those who love God)  We are to fear/revere God who CAN KILL BOTH BODY AND SOuL.  That is what Satan is after.  How many ways does God have to spell it out?  

THE CHURCH is the body of Christ, FITTED TOGETHER.  It doesn't come apart because the hand has one job and the feet have another and the eye has another.  THEY ALL WORK TOGETHER AS ONE.  GOD ISN'T GOING TO TAKE THE HEART AND LEAVE THE REST TO FIGHT.  IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.  Where is the common sense?  MAN is so about "his own wisdom, intelligence yada yada yada" that he can't or wont see the SIMPLICITY of the Word.  How many times does God have to tell us?  BUT no, "it is set in the aorist, past present participle tense there fore means..."  yet never did take the time to find out  GODs plan first in the simplicity in which it is written and therefore fall victim to "higher education" misleading way and have no clue how to fit it all together RIGHTLY.  



A man goes off to war , years later, when he returns,  He finds his fiancé who was supposed to remain a virgin, with an infant at her breast.  

WHAT DO WE KNOW? 
She is no longer a virgin. (how foolish)
 
She has been unfaithful or put another way:
She has gone a whoring after another who only CLAIMED to be and/or deceived her into believing that he was indeed, her fiancé.  (this even though the man told her, someone was going to be coming before he returned to try to deceive her into this infidelity)

BUT she really has no excuse.  She didn't rightly divide.  She listened instead to what her teachers and friends told her was going to happen (this ABOVE, the letter he wrote in which he gave distinct details concerning what would happen while he was gone.  
If she had really studied it, SHE would have NOT found the IMPOSTER TO BE TEMPTING, no temptation IN anyway, not only not tempted but amazed seeing what all those around her could not see.  IF ONLY SHE HAD received THE KNOWLEDGE FOUND IN THE LETTER.  She would have KNOWN that it was nothing but a fake standing there, lying to her ever so convincingly AND THAT SHE HAD BEEN GIVEN POWER OVER HIM. WITH JUST THE NAME OF HER BELOVED.  BUT ALAS, her friends told her he was sending a plane to pick her up before that evil one came and she believed that instead.   

The man going off to war, KNEW THERE WAS A DECEIVER COMING TO SEDUCE HIS VIRGIN FIANCE, knew it like, if He was God Himself.  Realizing that in fact, with enough time, even if she did digilently study, did put on the armor, completely understood the letter that the seducer would convince her, that liar, would convince her to, hop into bed with him, SO HE shortened THE AMOUNT OF TIME he would be gone thus the possible destroyer of her virginity would be allowed access for only  ONE HOUR,  called it "the HOUR OF TEMPTATION". SURE IT USED TO BE CALLED THE "70TH WEEK"  BUT that was not going to go well at all.   The MAN knew that snake would have a bunch of his cronies with him, but in fixing that also fixed it so that they would only have AN HOUR ON the earth WITH that beast.  We know this is true because it is written.  There was SILENCE IN HEAVEN 1/2 HOUR NOT just to watch but for me at least, TO OPEN SPIRITUAL EYES TO TRUTH.  Those spiritual eyes were closed when our physical ones were opened way back in that fig grove.  

So when the Man returns, and she sees Him, she wishes for mountains to fall upon her to cover up her SHAME.  She is so embarrassed all she wants to do is hide. She should have stayed faithful, not been deceived, she should not have hopped into bed with the wrong guy.  , SHE SHOULD HAVE STAYED working in the field.  She should not have been harvested out of season.  She should not have a child and be giving suck.  She should not have tried to divide her house in two.  A house divided...A bad tree doesn't bear good fruit...Sweet and bitter water....wheat and the tares...good and bad figs...can't serve two masters...... wise and foolish...Don't be deceived NOT BY 

THE SEALS.  
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, TILL WE HAVE SEALED THE SERVANTS OF GOD IN THEIR FOREHEADS

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, BUT FOR THE MEAT WHICH ENDURETH unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: FOR HIM HATH GOD THE FATHER SEALED.

Not opened in a particular ORDER other than IMPORTANCE of what we need to know so we can tell what time it is.    

They PUT GODS WISDOM IN OUR BRAINS, to know what is going to happen/is happening. .  When we "SEE" what is happening (SEAL) we know a trump has sounded, WE KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS.  We know what is coming next,  what to "WATCH" for.    
 

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and He shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.

 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

 9:12 Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;

 9:13 When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man.

 9:14 And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the LORD God shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.

 9:15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.

 9:16 And the LORD their God shall save them IN THAT DAY as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.

 9:17 For how great is His goodness, and how great is His beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.


WE ARE GOING TO REMAIN RIGHT HERE ON EARTH.  STILL, WE ARE NOT GOING TO SUFFER GODS WRATH.  WHY? BECAUSE THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE IS OUR REFUGE AND STRENGTH, AND A VERY PRESENT HELP.  Tribulation, absolutely.  Gods people always have.  We are told as Christians we will.  And just because it is a tribulation like none seen before in no way means it is not something we can not handle.  We are going to be suited up in the Gospel Armor and when GODS WRATH COMES, IT COMES UPON THEM, not us.  How many times do we need to be told.  HAVE YOU FAITH?   

Psalm 46:1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Psalm 46:2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

Psalm 46:3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

Psalm 46:4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.

Psalm 46:5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

Psalm 46:6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: He uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 46:7 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

Psalm 46:8 Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations He hath made in the earth.

Psalm 46:9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; He breaketh the bow; and cutteth the spear in sunder; He burneth the chariot in the fire.

Psalm 46:10 BE STILL, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Psalm 46:11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

NOT TO MENTION JESUS WILL HAVE RETURNED AND ALL WILL BE CHANGED.  AND HIS FOOT WILL TOUCH DOWN ON THE MOUNT AND THE VALLEY WILL 

 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. IN THE WORLD YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

 

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad UPON THE PERSECUTION  that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, PREACHING THE WORD TO NONE BUT UNTO THE JEWS ONLY. (jUST CALL THEM CHRISTIANS NOW)

 

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, AND THAT WE MUST THROUGH MUCH TRIBULATION ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD

 

 

Romans 5:3 And not only so, but WE GLORY IN TRIBULATIONS ALSO; knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

 

 

Romans 8:35 WHO SHALL SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST?  SHALL TRIBULATION, OR DISTRESS, OR PERSECUTION, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

 

Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; PATIENT IN TRIBULATION; continuing instant in prayer

 

2 Corinthians 1:4 WHO COMFORETH US IN ALL OUR TRIBULATIONS that we may be able  to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort WHEREWITH WE OURSELVES ARE COMFORTED OF GOD. 

 

 

2 Corinthians 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;


2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

 

2 Corinthians 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding JOYFUL IN ALL OUR TRIBULATION 

 

2 Corinthians 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
 

2 Corinthians 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

 

Philipians 4:14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

 

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

 

1 Thessalonians 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit

 

1 Thessalonians 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: FOR YOURSELVES KNOW THAT WE ARE APPOINTED THEREUNTO 

 

1 Thessalonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we  should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

 

1 Thessalonians 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, LEST BY SOME MEANS THE TEMPTER HAVE TEMPTED YOU,  and our labour be in vain.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

 

2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, FOR WHICH YE ALSO SUFFER

 

2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

Hebrews 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of        them that were so used.

 

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

 

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are        Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 2:10 FEAR NONE OF THOSE THINGS WHICH THOU SHALT SUFFER; behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


Revelation 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds

 

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have        washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

2 Timothy 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; WHAT PERSECUTIONS I ENDURED; BUT OUT OF THEM ALL THE LORD DELIVERED ME. 
 

2 Timothy 3:12 YEA, AND ALL THAT WILL LIVE GODLY IN CHRIST JESUS SHALL SUFFER.  



LABOR PAINS BEGIN with a bit of time in between each set, then as time goes on they get closer and closer up until the end when it is ONE EVENT ON TOP OF THE NEXT.  Then suddenly, a BIG PUSH, AND  from that moment all, LIFE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. 
The knowledge the seals bring forth come really slow. 
The events the trumps sound for quicker,  closer together.  They aren't even put in the Angels hands till all knowledge is sealed in Gods elect.  That is why the four winds are held.  So all of you elect who are stuck in mans doctrine hurry up and open your spiritual eyes so this show can get on the road.  We all started out WITH wrong info and beliefs.  It isn't where we came from but what we do when we receive new truths.  Isn't that what is supposed to be happening in the end times?  Knowledge being quickly poured out?  If you aren't open to it, you are stuck in mans doctrines.  Shoot I just learned last week that Jesus told us prince
The vials are WIDE MOUTHED SHALLOW BOWLS, DUMPED OUT in quick succession.  



 

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, THAT OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME, I should lose nothing, BUT SHOULD RAISE IT UP AGAIN AT THE LAST DAY.  

John 6:40 And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY. 

 

John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: AND I WILL RAISE HIM UP AT THE LAST DAY.

 

John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness.

12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

12:50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

MAKING OF THE TWAIN ONE
 

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed IN  the last time.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

 

1  Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1  Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

1  Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1  Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1  Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1  Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1  Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1  Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1  Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1  Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1  Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


a LITTLE MORE PAUL

2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you IN THE CHURCHES OF GOD for your patience and faith IN ALL YOUR PERSECUTIONS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT YE ENDURE (LIKE TO THE END???)

2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, THAT YE MAY BE COUNTED WORTHY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, FOR WHICH YE ALSO SUFFER (YOU MEAN WE NEED TO BE COUNTED WORTHY???  Not just going to fly away to escape the wrath of God??? and receive all those who stay and are tested and pass do???)

2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;(GOD knows we are going to be troubled???)

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

WHEN is the Lord Jesus REVEALED FROM HEAVEN??

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(DAY OF VENGEANCE  ON WHO???  ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD AND DON'T WHAT???  OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.  you know, the one who never ever ever ever ever mentions PRE TRIB)

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2 Thessalonians 1:10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.(IN WHAT DAY???  THAT DAY, that day being one day or else it would have read in those days)

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Thessalonians 1:12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This second letter written QUICKLY after the first letter in which the PRE TRIBS use to refer to the gathering together... never mention this SECOND letter DISALLOWING for that belief TO BE GODS TRUTH?  

Take away this gathering, take away THE MEANING THEY put for "not suffer Gods wrath"(lack of faith in the promises of God), add in the churches told to overcome and endure to the end, the Day, return, coming never plural, Christ never mentioning, Paul 3 times back to back to back making clear as could possibly be made "there is NO GATHERING until after the false one stands where he ought not", we as Christs men to suffer tribulation (not like He didn't do it Himself)

[The Light]

On 3/26/2020 at 2:50 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

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No........Jesus Raptures us PRE 70th week and returns at the 7th Vial. 

 

Jesus comes pre 70th week for the Church. He comes at the end of the week for the 12 tribes across the earth and He comes with His army from heaven at the 7th vial, which is another view of the 7th trumpet.

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Which is by they are a REMNANT. The Church is gone........its simplistic language.

 

Yep simplistic language. It is determined that the seed of the woman determines whether someone is a Jew. The remnant of the seed of the woman is the 12 tribes that are across the earth.

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Can you cite a SPECIFIC Scripture that says the Rapture is at the 6th Seal ? NO......But I can provide evidence to those who understand Scriptures and the bible is for those of us who understand God's Parables/Word, not fir the world. Why do you think Paul called it a Secret/Mystery ? Because the Rapture is specifivc to the Gentile Church, this it wasn't given unto the Jews overtly, but just in hints, in the Old Testament.

The rapture is not specific to the Gentile Church. We know this because the GOODMAN will not know when the Lord will return as in such an hour as you think not the Son of Man commeth. and yet we are also told that the day of the Lord will not take others unaware. The people in Paul's day were afraid that they had missed the gathering. Paul told them first the man of sin must be revealed.

2 Thes 2

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

² That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This scripture alone should tell you everything you are saying is incorrect. If the gathering was when God comes with his armies from heaven, why would those people be afraid that they had missed the gathering. The are afraid because they are afraid that they are in Gods wrath. Dude, just think, logically. Why are they afraid? Would they be afraid that they missed the armies of heaven returning? No, they are afraid that they missed the gathering and have entered the wrath of God. The gathering you see in Matt 24 is NOT THE SECOND COMING when Jesus returns with His armies. Put things where God says they go and everything lines up perfectly. Jam thing where they do not go and you have a bucket of confusion.

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You first clue is go back, reread Jesus on the Marriage chapters !! He gives you all the clues you need via pointing to the Church being his Bride. The Jewish Wedding Tradition ALWAYS had a 7 day Betrothal period where the son takes the bride to the fathers house for SEVEN DAYS !! Where the Marriage is Consummated. The Church is Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened, you admit that,

I've probably told you no less than 20 times that I believe that the Church is raptured pre trib and is in heaven for the 70th week of Daniel. So we totally agree here. The Church is in heaven 7 days or for the 7 year period. Even as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. Noah is not in the ark for a 7 day flood, he is in the ark 7 days BEFORE the flood. BEFORE Gods wrath is poured out. You said it yourself that there is a 7 day betrothal. THEN the marriage supper happens in heaven, not on the earth.

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then forget that the AGREEMENT {Covenant means agreement in Hebrew} between this Anti-Christ and THE MANY {which includes Israel} is for ONE WEEK or 7 years, this the First Seal is opened in the middle ofbthe Week and we see the Church is in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened. 

No, the 1st 6 seals are the tribulation and the 70th week of Daniel. AFTER the week then Gods wrath comes. The week is the 7 day period and then the wrath begins, WHICH WE CAN PROVE SEVERAL WAYS.

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The Church is TAKEN to be with Jesus for 7 years in the Fathers Mansion !! {I have a place prepared FOR YOU if I go I will come again and receive you unto myself} Its a Jewish Wedding Pattern. The Jews 69th year of Judgment ended with Jesus' death, and the Gentiles being given the Mantle of the Gospel. When the TIME of the Gentiles is come FULL, we will be Raptured and ONLY THEN will the 70th week start. How long is that week supposed to last brother ? 7 Years so we can figure this out, the 70th week has no Christians from the Church Age in it, there are some who become Christians AFTER the Rapture, they are the Remnant Church. Google The Jewish Wedding Pattern Luke 8:10 {I don't know who its by, but it is an awesome teaching.

 

I understand the 7 day Jewish betrothal period, so we both agree that the wedding feast will occur after 7 days. And that 7 day period is the 70th week of Daniel. What happens at the end of the week. There will be a gathering from HEAVEN AND EARTH. The Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth. NOT THE JEWS IN THE NATION OF ISRAEL They go through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

So why is the Church in heaven for 1 week. As you know, they are there as a picture of the Jewish wedding BEFORE the wedding feast. Well, when we have this gathering from heaven and earth why is God gathering the Jews from the earth (NOT THE JEWS IN THE NATION OF ISRAEL). He is gathering the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth because their blindness has been removed after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. Those Jews also are going to the feast. How do we know?

Luke 15

¹¹ And he said, A certain man had two sons:

¹² And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

¹³ And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

¹⁴ And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

¹⁵ And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

¹⁶ And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

¹⁷ And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

¹⁸ I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,

¹⁹ And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

²⁰ And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

²¹ And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

²² But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

²³ And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

²⁴ For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Light]

On 3/26/2020 at 2:50 AM, Revelation Man said:

 

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I do understand, its nor RELEVANT, the Jews can not be the REMNANT, the Remnant can only be the 1/3, and they are Protected. Can the 2/3 be a REMNANT when they are the Majority ? 

 

How is it possible that you cannot grasp that the are Jews all over the world, additionally there are Jews in the nation of Israel. The Jews in the nation of Israel are the 1/3 that and the 2/3 that don't. These have nothing to do with the remnant seed of the woman. The remnant seed of the woman comes from the 12 tribes that are across the earth that have had their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

 

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The AGREEMENT/Covenant is Confirmed 3.5 years BEFORE the Seals are opened. Do you not get that ?

No, I do not get that. The seals are the tribulation and the 70th week of Daniel. The covenant begins the week, and then the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

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The Jews ARE NOT RAPTURED,

The Jews that are across the earth are raptured. The Jews in the nation of Israel stay and go through the wrath of God.

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See Rev. 14, its The Harvest chapter. The Jews are seen on Mt Zion with Jesus because he picks them up {at least metaphorically} from the Petra/Bozrah area, I gave that to you a few days ago. He comes into Jerusalem with a WINE STAINED Garment {Wine-press of God's Wrath}. 

 

Rev 14 has nothing to do with the Jews at Petra. The Jews that could be at Petra go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. The Jews you see in Rev 14 are of the scattered 12 tribes. We see 144,000 1st fruits which is a guarantee of a harvest. Do some research on the meaning of 1st fruits. If you have 144,000 1st fruits, from the 12 tribes, you will have a rapture of the 12 tribes. That is the gathering of Matt 24. It is the harvest that you see at the end of Rev 14, BEFORE the wrath of God begins. It is the harvest that occurs BEFORE the great multitude, when Jesus comes in Rev 6.

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Well I don't agree, and I have been studying this for 40 years and preaching for over 30 years. You are not ever going to meet anyone that has more knowledge on the book of Daniel and Revelation than me, that is what God called me to via His first vision to me in 1986. I wasted about 25 years doing what you are doing, following Men's Traditions instead of hearing God on prophecy.

Let me ask you something brother. Have you heard the things that I am saying before. I don't know what you are talking about as far as following men's traditions. I don't see others saying that there will be a pretrib rapture of the Church and a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes. Here's the problem. I can follow exactly what you say, as I've heard it all before, and I know why it's wrong. You don't really understand these things. 1) The 1st 6 seals are the 70th week of Daniel. 2) The tribulation and the wrath of God are not in the same time frame. 3. The coming of Matt 24 is not the second coming. 4) The wrath of God starts when the 7th seal opened AND when the vials are poured out. The vials are just another view of the trumpets. WE CAN PROVE ALL THESE THINGS. 5) The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet and it is over at the 7th vial. There is much more but this should suffice.