BibleStudent100 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 411 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 354 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 What a fascinating person Peter was! He had a dynamic nature and was outspoken and overconfident and even brash and impetuous at times, which sometimes got him in trouble. In one well known instance, when motivated by falsely placed compassion, he committed the error of presuming to take Jesus aside and actually rebuke him for foretelling his future sufferings and death as the Messiah. Jesus turned his back on Peter, calling him an opposer, who was pitting human reasoning against God’s thoughts found in prophecy (Matthew 16:21-23). Although many Christians place that ill-advised comment squarely on Peter, it is important to know that Jesus ‘looked at the other disciples’ when doing this, likely indicating that he knew Peter spoke sentiments shared by the others (Mark 8:32, 33). Of course, denying Jesus three times was the worst spiritual infraction that Peter endured. Still, Peter had the “privilege” of being the most frequently corrected, reproved, and rebuked, which, ironically, did not cause him to be marginalized by Jesus, as Jesus could read Peter’s heart and appreciate the love for Bible truths that Peter exhibited; as a result, Peter received many notable privileges: being chosen by Jesus to accompany him during the transfiguration scene, being present at the raising of the daughter of Jairus and witnessing Jesus’ personal trial in the garden of Gethsemane. Additionally, the Gospel accounts record more of Peter’s statement than of any of the other 11 apostles. And of course, he was honored to write two Bible books as well. Denying Christ three times was a spiritually low point in his life, but when one takes in the totality of one's life, Peter was highly privileged and was highly appreciated by Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,186 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,464 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 This is my studied opinion: We know we are to form are thinking from Scripture and when we have done so stand where ever that takes us till we are shown more from Scripture... many many today are I feel, I think, I believe without really any Scripture at all to foundation their thought; These according to Scripture are seeds without depth of soil. So in one way this is posted to try to encourage those who love God to increase on letting Scripture guide them instead of other... Was Peter reduced to cowardice or something other: This the initial key to where Peter was on this issue Matt 16:21-23 21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. KJV Peter loved the Lord and as we to our loved ones (family) so he to The Lord... after all the disciples had left their homes and family to follow Jesus... So we see Peter self determined heart to protect The Lord even to the point of (rebuking The Creator of the heavens and earth) / Jesus' comment reflects the sternness of his heart set in this way ' for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.' The second leading of Scripture to the motives of Peter's heart in this Mark 14:27-31 27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered. 28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee. 29 But Peter said unto him, Although all shall be offended, yet will not I. 30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. 31 But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all. KJV Here we see the same Peter and self determined and self willed intent as I will not be offended >I will die with thee<… Understanding the spread of time in the above two accounts we can also glean Peter's heart is fixed in what Peter has determined in what is right for himself! This adequately sets the stage for the event itself to be examined: Matt 26:46-47 46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me. 47 And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people. KJV It is vital to recognize there was a great multitude here with swords and staves John 18:10-11 10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it? KJV This weapon here is reduced from the idea of sword and is more smaller version like a good sized bowie knife or if you have seen Crocodile Dundee like his knife... Here we must weight the fact a great many with weapons greater than his yet out it comes (why) because Peter is going to keep to his will and rescue Jesus whom he loves! So Jesus' first rebuke get 'get thee behind me satan' didn't change Peter from his determined right way to proceed... so now do we think Peter is going to change now with Jesus' rebuke now? John 18:15-16 15 And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest. 16 But Peter stood at the door without. Then went out that other disciple, which was known unto the high priest, and spake unto her that kept the door, and brought in Peter. KJV This account is very important as John and Peter following Jesus' -note John was allowed to pass right on through as He was known but Peter was held at the gate because he was not! This could only mean he was to be examined if he was allowed through... this a risk to his own neck yet he remained there till John used his influence to gain entrance for Peter... Now the denials take place in this courtyard and they become more fervent as each happen... Peter was staying true to form and looking for an opportunity to save His Lord and friend... even till the very last denial, after all if he were taken who would save his friend? The third denial when this occurred God spoke directly to his heart in Spirit - Peter trying to find opportunity to save his Lord -it was brought to his memory you will deny me three times and Peter went out and wept bitterly. Within the heart of man lies a determined will but that will may not be aligned to God's Will as Peter comes straight head on with God and his lesson is evident to us all! In the human heart we can be persuaded that we have the highest goal but so much of the time it is earthy and not of the eternal makeup.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,468 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 I thought twice about this before posting [applies to OSAS, an argumentative subject], but I think it's relevant to the topic. As stated a number of times previously, Peter denied Christ three times. This occurred NOT in the age of Grace [as Jesus had not completed His work yet], but legally wound had been under Old Testament law. Jesus questioned Peter three times if Peter loved Him. Jesus using one particular Greek word for love, and Peter responding with another Greek word for love with a different meaning. Peter was then restored, restored to what? What was Peter's Salvation status directly after he denied Christ three times [by faith ye are saved, O.T. example Abraham], before he was restored? Was he restored back into discipleship and / or back into the family of God? Does the following New Testament verses have any application or insight? Hebrews 6:4 (KJV) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. God is One God, in three Persons; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Yes, the Holy Spirit did not come permanently to indwell believers until the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit was and is active throughout all of human affairs and history. I believe one of His works is to convict men of their sin and lead them to Jesus. With that in mind, if I'm thinking correctly and my theology is accurate; the 11 disciples were convicted by the Holy Spirit, save Judas. I'm thinking Hebrews 6: 4-6 applies only to the age of Grace, the church age from the day of Pentecost forward most likely? So, Peter's status directly after he denied Christ three times was? (a) Unsaved (b) Out of fellowship with the Lord (c) Still saved, but out of fellowship (d) Disqualified from discipleship to Apostleship (e) Other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,468 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Peter was staying true to form and looking for an opportunity to save His Lord and friend... even till the very last denial, after all if he were taken who would save his friend? The third denial when this occurred God spoke directly to his heart in Spirit - Peter trying to find opportunity to save his Lord -it was brought to his memory you will deny me three times and Peter went out and wept bitterly. Within the heart of man lies a determined will but that will may not be aligned to God's Will as Peter comes straight head on with God and his lesson is evident to us all! In the human heart we can be persuaded that we have the highest goal but so much of the time it is earthy and not of the eternal makeup.... Interesting thoughts, I don't believe I've ever heard anyone interpret it that way. I've always taken it as if Peter trying in his own might with human frailty and self will, but Satan was sifting Peter then and bent Peter to his will during this time? Jesus prayed to the Father for Peter, was it so Satan wouldn't sift Peter, or that Peter be restored?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,186 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,464 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said: Interesting thoughts, I don't believe I've ever heard anyone interpret it that way. I've always taken it as if Peter trying in his own might with human frailty and self will, but Satan was sifting Peter then and bent Peter to his will during this time? Jesus prayed to the Father for Peter, was it so Satan wouldn't sift Peter, or that Peter be restored?? As satan has been given to be the prince and power of this world by us... it is evident when we put this place before God satan has sifted us into the wrong bowl... I am thankful that The Lord Jesus has me tightly held within His Grasp just as Peter! We may stumble and bumble but we will remain in his predestined keeping for who may argue with God on who is His and who is not? 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted February 18, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,468 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,378 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2020 15 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: Strange how nobody credits John with the courage he displayed on that awful day....John was surely risking his life as he stayed with Jesus to the very end.....I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he was the only disciple that did not die a horrendous death Or the beloved disciple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 19, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,186 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,464 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: Or the beloved disciple. & John they are the same.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada Posted February 20, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 183 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 20, 2020 From scripture, do we actually know how Peter died? Did Jesus build His church upon peter the rock or upon Jesus our Rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted February 20, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted February 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, canada said: From scripture, do we actually know how Peter died? Did Jesus build His church upon peter the rock or upon Jesus our Rock? It was not on Peter! We can’t know if Peter was a coward simply by the scriptural record. We can attempt to extrapolate based on a knowledge and better yet the experience of human nature. A lifelong careful and honest examination of oneself is amazingly informative. We are all very much the same in these earthen vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted February 22, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,186 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,464 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Sonshine said: Great fear motivated Peter to lie. can you show me in the Scripture this reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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