kwikphilly Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Diaste said: 2 Timothy 3:12 (KJV) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. Blessings Diaste Very true but still,that is not what we are Called by God for nor is it what He Wants for us,its a result of being WHO we are in Christ Quote King James Bible And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. Luke 21:17 With love -in Christ,Kwik "result" is probably a poor choice of words ,maybe "an outcome or an effect" isbetter Edited April 8, 2020 by kwikphilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted April 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, Behold said: Read more carefully what i write, ok? I said that God does not call us to suffer = to be SAVED... After we are saved, will we have issues in life, trouble in this world? Sure. But we ourselves dont SUFFER to be Born Again,.. we don't suffer to be SAVED..... as Jesus did all the suffering on the CROSS, in our place, so that we can have the GIFT of Salvation. So ya--I have found this to be a problem more often than should be. We assume a thing in our minds and then tend to 'wrench' something that follows into the box we built prior. Folks do the same in scripture....we read about works and then forget about the foundational Truth the the Cross and Grace. This is why it is so important to get the foundation solid first and then everything that follows has to harmonize with those foundational Truths. Death and Life and how we get from one to the other. It really is so basic that a child can grasp it and yet our active minds resist the simplicity. This is Ishmael that so wants to live and thrive. Isaac, the son of promise, inherited all that he had from his father Abraham. He did not labor, but was 'born' into all the benefits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, Alive said: So ya--I have found this to be a problem more often than should be. We assume a thing in our minds and then tend to 'wrench' something that follows into the box we built prior. Folks do the same in scripture....we read about works and then forget about the foundational Truth the the Cross and Grace. This is why it is so important to get the foundation solid first and then everything that follows has to harmonize with those foundational Truths. Death and Life and how we get from one to the other. It really is so basic that a child can grasp it and yet our active minds resist the simplicity. This is Ishmael that so wants to live and thrive. Isaac, the son of promise, inherited all that he had from his father Abraham. He did not labor, but was 'born' into all the benefits. Most Christians, and all new Christians, have a real issue with "letting Go". What i mean is.....they can read that "God saves and keeps you saved", and believe it,.. but then they continue about their merry way confessing sins, that really are not even there, as Jesus has already died for them all........ to try to make certain that they didn't "lose it". Or they are involved in trying to be as holy as they can, so that God won't take away their salvation as long as they keep doing that. None of this an 100 other things that most Christians are a slave to, makes any difference to God, as why would it? He never saved you because of what you can do, nor does He get rid of you because of what you fail to do.. God said......Here is Jesus... "come"......... and if you will give me your faith in Him, i will put myself INSIDE YOU, and STAY. Yet, Christians, most, have no idea that this is permanent,, so, most exist in a sort of...>"well, i know Jesus saves, but you see, i have to also"... No... Thats not how God saves you or keeps you, or why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Sonshine said: Greetings ... I believe 2 Timothy 3:12 is referring to the end-time generation—the latter days when Christians will, more than ever before, face persecution. Note 3:1. 2 Timothy 3:1 King James Version (KJV) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. If we think of unsaved humanity as "one world mind", then that verse that you quoted, if you look at the rest of it 2-5, exactly portrays the evolution of the spiritual darkness of mankind, as it has continued since the Cross was raised. Consider that the USA was originally founded on Biblical Principals, and most of the "founding fathers" were strong faith filled believers, and many of them were Pastors. And this very same USA, that was built on the Cross, is now the #1 exporter into the rest of the WORLD of "gay rights", "gay media", "homosexual lifestyle acceptance". What "Christian nation", allows by LAW, 2 Gay men the "right" to adopt baby BOYS? And that is just one sick example of what the USA is all about these days... So, yeah, the worldwide spiritual darkness is BLACK and will get blacker the closer we are to being Raptured. Edited April 8, 2020 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Behold said: You can have, ... you can clone all the Works of Jesus, and keep all the commandments, be water baptized, preach "self effort" till you are 98, and live on a Christian forum posting other peoples commentaries,..... and if you are not born again, you will die and meet God as a person who Jesus defined as "dying in your sins", and YET you will be judged for only one. That you were never born again, and you will then go to hell like a bullet after you die, and burn like a torch in the lake of fire, as your "eternity". So, "can faith save YOU"? No, faith can't save anyone.....As its God alone who SAVES YOU THRU YOUR FAITH, as James is teaching, as "faith is counted (by God) as righteousness), as Paul taught James. Salvation works like this, Diaste.. = Jesus gave His sinless life and His Blood as the FULL REDEMPTION that God offers to any and ALL who will will have FAITH in Christ"> God said that : "The Work of God, is that YOU BELIEVE ON THE ONE Whom God SENT"... God only accepts what JESUS DID, to accept YOU. He will NEVER ACCEPT YOUR LIFESTYLE or your commandment keeping or your works, to accept you......Not ever. Obviously I wasn't making reference to LDS doctrine. However there are two kinds of works: those that burn and those that do not. The Gold and silver works are a direct result of the faith of God in us and those works will last forever. In know salvation is in Christ alone through His work born of His belief and faith in His Father. James teaches that even if one has faith, if that faith is not proven by works of gold and silver that faith is dead. Matt 25 is a comprehensive treatment of the faith God is looking for. I find it most interesting what the Lord says about the sheep and goats in Matt 25. One must view scripture as a whole. It is not a series or parcels or packets. Scripture is a harmonious compendium of our Father's wishes for us as we walk in the wilderness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Diaste said: . However there are two kinds of works: those that burn and those that do not. Notice that at the Judgment seat (Bema seat)= its the WORKS of a Christian that are judged, based on Jesus assessing our MOTIVES regarding what we did for Him down here. NOT THE CHRISTIAN. This is because JESUS has already been JUDGED ON THE CROSS for the BORN AGAIN, and God is not going to judge you BOTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Behold said: Read more carefully what i write, ok? I said that God does not call us to suffer = to be SAVED... After we are saved, will we have issues in life, trouble in this world? Sure. But we ourselves dont SUFFER to be Born Again,.. we don't suffer to be SAVED..... as Jesus did all the suffering on the CROSS, in our place, so that we can have the GIFT of Salvation. It's not that I didn't read it. It's the sense of the statement and I don't find this to be fully accurate in light of history. You are correct that any particular condition, such as suffering, is not a prerequisite or requirement for salvation it's just as correct that nothing is. Salvation has always been a gift from the beginning and it did not require suffering on the cross as the many examples in the OT prove. Even while the law convicted of sin since the time Moses came down from Sinai, salvation was apparent long before Jesus walked the earth as Moses and Elijah appeared in a glorified state with Jesus, the disciples bearing witness. The bearing of sin and the remission of sin by the shedding of blood required the cross, once and forever and this is not the same as salvation. By this we have an advocate and the blood of Christ removes that sin upon the confession Jesus is Lord and the belief God raised Him from the dead. As you said, salvation is by belief through the faith of God and it has always been that way from the beginning. I think it a strange thing that somehow salvation was only obtainable since 33 AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, kwikphilly said: Blessings Diaste Very true but still,that is not what we are Called by God for nor is it what He Wants for us,its a result of being WHO we are in Christ With love -in Christ,Kwik In my mind what God wants for us is whatever He says is the case. How can it be that you agree with the scripture but still find it inaccurate? "For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?" This is apparently what God wants, for judgement to begin in His house. Is this inaccurate as well? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Diaste said: I think it a strange thing that somehow salvation was only obtainable since 33 AD. The reason that Salvation, regarding the eternal "once and for all" concept was not here until the Cross, is this... """"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by GOD's own blood Jesus entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us...."""" Hebrews 9:12 Diaste, did you notice this ? " JESUS = having obtained ETERNAL (once and for all) REDEMPTION FOR US.... So, until Christ shed God's blood, there was no eternal redemption found.. So, eternal redemption has its eternal beginnings ON THE CROSS. =33AD If you want to know where this "blood redeems" concept was first listed, its actually found in Genesis, starting with Cain and Able. If you have time, turn to the epistle of JUDE 1, and you'll discover that the revelation of Grace, which is, the blood sacrifice of the clean for the guilty, didnt start with Abraham or with Jesus.. It started with Cain and Able. And in fact, the entire issue that is now the worst plague of Christianity, this "works to stay saved", "you can lose your salvation" actually has its theological root with Cain who tried to work his way into God's acceptance and was REJECTED..... while Able brought what God accepts, which is a sacrifice, blood. So, today, when you find someone teaching that you can lose your salvation, they are actually committing the "error of Cain", which is to try to replace Grace with Self Effort and Performance, as "another Gospel".... Galatians 1:8 Edited April 8, 2020 by Behold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted April 8, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) On 4/8/2020 at 10:27 AM, Diaste said: In my mind what God wants for us is whatever He says is the case. How can it be that you agree with the scripture but still find it inaccurate? "For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?" Firstly I didn't reply to the Scripture you just posted & eliminated from my comment....which was this one.... On 4/8/2020 at 6:03 AM, Diaste said: 2 Timothy 3:12 (KJV) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. Quote Blessings Diaste Very true but still,that is not what we are Called by God for nor is it what He Wants for us,its a result of being WHO we are in Christ So how can you say I agree with the Scripture & still find "it" in accurate I find you are inaccurate,not Gods Word and in reference to your comment that we are "called" by God to suffer.............which is absurd Now you are taking yet another verse of Scripture out of context which I have not commented on because you want to preach Faith plus "works" and how can I discuss this with you if you do not know what the Gospel of God is......the conversation is about LOVE,that is the Gospel friend...Love & Grace Edited April 11, 2020 by kwikphilly typing eerror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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