Ten Virgins

[R. Hartono]

On 4/8/2020 at 5:03 PM, Diaste said:

 

2 Timothy 3:12  (KJV)

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 

Diaste,

Its weird if you dont suffer persecution right now.

2 Tim 3:12 Yea, and all who will live a godly life in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Job has suffered persecution directly from the devil.

Its kinda weird if you think you will wait until the GT then come the persecution.

[Behold]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think you missed a step: at conception a name is written in the book of life. If that becomes a child then when the child grows to the age of accountability and then sins - their name will be blotted out. If they get saved, their name is written in again. But once saved, if there name is ever blotted out again, it simply CANNOT be written in a second time. Not blotted out when you die: blotted out at the first sin (the wages of sin is death) after reaching a certain age.

 

I want to add, once your name is written in when born again, it is very very hard to get your name blotted out again. But just know, it IS possible for a mature Christian. 

You can't lose your salvation.  So, no matter how you try to spin the bible and twist the word to teach an idea of "how to save yourself"...Its always going to deny the Cross by   teaching that Salvation is "kept by works", instead of "Saved by Grace".

 

[iamlamad]

On 4/19/2020 at 7:15 AM, Behold said:

You can't lose your salvation.  So, no matter how you try to spin the bible and twist the word to teach an idea of "how to save yourself"...Its always going to deny the Cross by   teaching that Salvation is "kept by works", instead of "Saved by Grace".

 

I would not be so certain about this: perhaps you should study Hebrews chapter 6 a little more carefully. I believe Paul used the word "impossible" to renew such a one unto repentance. I would not use the word "lose" either, as if one lost their keys or wallet. No, the truth is, someone can, by a choice of their own will, walk right out from under the blood covenant. But according to Hebrews 6, only a mature believer could do that. As I said, it is very difficult. God is very forgiving. But it is absolute truth: God is not going to FORCE someone into heaven that prefers sin over God. 

No twisting; not a salvation by works. It is the WILL of a human being. God HONORs the human will. He could have created robots without a will. He did not. He wants people to live Him and worship Him by a choice of their will - so He created humans with the freedom to choose. 

[iamlamad]

On 4/13/2020 at 5:55 PM, Behold said:

You are not saved by your faith, and you are absolutely not saved by unwavering enduring to the end, faith.

Faith cannot save you, or anyone else.  

Why are you not saved by faith?......Its because you are saved by GOD....THRU your Faith.     God accepts your faith to SAVE YOU using the blood of Jesus.  God is the Savior, as Jesus is GOD on the Cross, doing the Saving.  Its the Father who then takes this Blood, HIS blood, and applies its SAVING GRACE to you, THUR your Faith.

God accepts your faith...TO SAVE YOU.   

If you are trusting in Faith to get you to heaven, then Faith is now your savior, and Jesus is NOT.

A lot of believers are making this mistake, as they have been wrongly taught that FAITH saves....But it does not.  Faith is ACCEPTED AS "Righteousness".... God takes your faith, and then gives you the Blood Atonement that saves you, and with that, you get "the gift of righteousness" that BECOMES who you are "in Christ".

Think about  that carefully...  before you respond with more about how you are trusting in Faith to save you, instead of Trusting in CHRIST to save you.

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[Behold]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I would not be so certain about this: perhaps you should study Hebrews chapter 6 a little more carefully. I believe Paul used the word "impossible" to renew such a one unto repentance.

I think you need to find the Theology Section here, and read my many Threads.  At least one of them is talking about Hebrews Ch 4, 6, and 10, where all Heretics live.

Paul is not talking to the Born Again, in those verses.   He is talking about the BLOOD ATONEMENT.  He is TALKING ABOUT Christ on the Cross.  He is warning these HEBREWS that to Reject Messiah, is to reject the only sacrifice and pardon for Sin that God offers.  And if YOU "sin willfully" and REJECT CHRIST, then you have stomped your feet on the Blood of Jesus ("trodden underfoot), and "crucified Him afresh"....= CHRIST REJECTOR...... and so once that is your final answer there remains 'NO MORE SACRIFICE" FOR YOUR SIN, because you have REJECTED THE ONLY SALVATION THAT GOD OFFERS YOU. = JESUS THE CHRIST

That is what Paul is telling these UNSAVED HEBREWS.   HE IS PREACHING THE CROSS and He is ON FIRE.. He is angry, He is blistering them with WARNINGS, He is showing them the SIGNS OF AN APOSTLE  "tasted the heavenly GIFT"..."signs are for the JEWS/Hebrews"..... and they are still spitting on Him, rejecting Grace, Denying that Christ is Messiah, and He is literally fighting with them about this in the Spirit as well as with all his spiritual power..

In Acts 28, if you read the last 10 verses, you'll see this situation playing out, and Paul finally tells them....>"DONE WITH YOU< !!!   DONE @!!!   Im taking this GOSPEL TO THE GENTILES". !!

And he did.   

Edited April 20, 2020 by Behold

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

I think you need to find the Theology Section here, and read my many Threads.  At least one of them is talking about Hebrews Ch 4, 6, and 10, where all Heretics live.

Paul is not talking to the Born Again, in those verses.   He is talking about the BLOOD ATONEMENT.  He is TALKING ABOUT Christ on the Cross.  He is warning these HEBREWS that to Reject Messiah, is to reject the only sacrifice and pardon for Sin that God offers.  And if YOU "sin willfully" and REJECT CHRIST, then you have stomped your feet on the Blood of Jesus ("trodden underfoot), and "crucified Him afresh"....= CHRIST REJECTOR...... and so once that is your final answer there remains 'NO MORE SACRIFICE" FOR YOUR SIN, because you have REJECTED THE ONLY SALVATION THAT GOD OFFERS YOU. = JESUS THE CHRIST

That is what Paul is telling these UNSAVED HEBREWS.   HE IS PREACHING THE CROSS and He is ON FIRE.. He is angry, He is blistering them with WARNINGS, He is showing them the SIGNS OF AN APOSTLE  "tasted the heavenly GIFT"..."signs are for the JEWS/Hebrews"..... and they are still spitting on Him, rejecting Grace, Denying that Christ is Messiah, and He is literally fighting with them about this in the Spirit as well as with all his spiritual power..

In Acts 28, if you read the last 10 verses, you'll see this situation playing out, and Paul finally tells them....>"DONE WITH YOU< !!!   DONE @!!!   Im taking this GOSPEL TO THE GENTILES". !!

And he did.   

My friend, I am well acquainted with the context of chapter 6 in Hebrews. There was great pressure being put on new Jewish converts to go back under the law. Let's look together:

1.....not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Born again Jews certain got faith to be born again when they heard Paul preach.

² Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Without a doubt Paul believed in the laying on of hands, as we see in Acts 19.  We also know Paul taught on the resurrection, and on eternal judgment. 

³ And this will we do, if God permit. Since it is written, God did permit.

⁴ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, Enlightened means they heard the word of God preached and they BELIEVED it. 

and have tasted of the heavenly gift,  Jesus is the "heavenly gift:" this means they were born again. 

and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Refer to Acts 19: this phrase means they received the mighty baptism in the Holy Ghost, exactly as those in Acts 19 received - with the laying on of hands. (The anointing)

⁵ And have tasted the good word of God,  This speaks of a mature Christian that feasts on the word of God.

and the powers of the world to come,  This speaks of power gifts of the Holy Spirit: in other words, this person would have been operation in the power gifts of the Spirit: gift of Miracles, the gifts of healing, and/or the gifts of Faith. In other words, a very mature believer (It does not matter, Jew or Gentile at this point).

⁶ If they shall fall away,  If this person described, whether Jew or Gentile, CHOOSES by their own will to walk away from God and go back to the world - or in context back to the law...

it is impossible ... to renew them again unto repentance... They are not going to be able to repent, nor is God willing at that point to take them back. They have "looked back" to their previous life and wanted it more than God. 

From these verses, I would say it is impossible for a new Christian to walk out from under God's New Covenant. Only a very mature believer that knows exactly what he or she is doing would be able to walk away from God and God ALLOW it to happen.  WHO would ever do this and WHY? The call of the world can be very very strong. Suppose a mature Christian got into fornication and loved it so much they were unwilling to repent?  Suppose the Holy Spirit was convicting them again and again. Suppose one day They got tired of the Holy Spirit bugging them and they screamed at God: LEAVE ME ALONE! 

What is God to do? They have chosen the world over Him. These scriptures TELL US what God will do: the Holy Spirit sealing them will LEAVE because He is no longer welcome. And that person will not be able to repent. They will have crossed a line. 

Therefore, according to the written word of God, it IS possible for a believer to be lost.

 

Another scenario: Suppose a true, born again believer, is trapped with sticky fingers. He or she steals. Suppose this believer thinks there is a difference between big sins and little sins. Suppose the Holy Spirit has been trying to get this person to stop stealing.....but this person only thinks it is their conscience bothering them. Suppose they die SUDDENLY in a car accident without repenting of stealing? What is God to do? His word is out: Thieves cannot go to heaven. 

Another scenario: husband and wife get it a bad argument: BOTH are believers - born again. Wife gets so angry she slaps her pastor / husband. He gets very offended and drives off in anger. Still angry, he runs off the road and crashes into a big tree and DIES. He had died while still holding UNFORGIVENESS against his wife. Pastor for years or no pastor, it makes no difference: he has died with unforgiveness, and God has already said that if we don't forgive, neither will HE forgive.  He cannot go to heaven. God cannot go against His word.  However, if his wife prays him back to his body so he is alive once again, THEN He could repent.  

The truth is, a believer CAN be lost. 

[Behold]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

My friend, I am well acquainted with the context of chapter 6 in Hebrews. There was great pressure being put on new Jewish converts to go back under the law. Let's look together:

 

The truth is, a believer CAN be lost. 

The only 'pressure" that was being put on those unsaved Hebrews, was the Conviction of the Holy Spirit while Paul was preaching the Cross.

They had the very same reaction to Stephen, and stoned him to death.  Another notable case of Hebrew Messiah rejection,  was the crucifixion of Christ.

Listen, you find yourself at odds with the Grace of God.

My advice to you, is to find a different reason to spend time on a Christian Forum.   As when your purpose here is to only try to deny the effect of The Grace of God and subvert the faith of real believers, you find yourself at odds with the Cross.

Being in direct opposition to the Blood of Christ and His finished Work, is not what you want to be doing.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Behold

[Blood Bought 1953]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

My friend, I am well acquainted with the context of chapter 6 in Hebrews. There was great pressure being put on new Jewish converts to go back under the law. Let's look together:

1.....not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Born again Jews certain got faith to be born again when they heard Paul preach.

² Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Without a doubt Paul believed in the laying on of hands, as we see in Acts 19.  We also know Paul taught on the resurrection, and on eternal judgment. 

³ And this will we do, if God permit. Since it is written, God did permit.

⁴ For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, Enlightened means they heard the word of God preached and they BELIEVED it. 

and have tasted of the heavenly gift,  Jesus is the "heavenly gift:" this means they were born again. 

and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Refer to Acts 19: this phrase means they received the mighty baptism in the Holy Ghost, exactly as those in Acts 19 received - with the laying on of hands. (The anointing)

⁵ And have tasted the good word of God,  This speaks of a mature Christian that feasts on the word of God.

and the powers of the world to come,  This speaks of power gifts of the Holy Spirit: in other words, this person would have been operation in the power gifts of the Spirit: gift of Miracles, the gifts of healing, and/or the gifts of Faith. In other words, a very mature believer (It does not matter, Jew or Gentile at this point).

⁶ If they shall fall away,  If this person described, whether Jew or Gentile, CHOOSES by their own will to walk away from God and go back to the world - or in context back to the law...

it is impossible ... to renew them again unto repentance... They are not going to be able to repent, nor is God willing at that point to take them back. They have "looked back" to their previous life and wanted it more than God. 

From these verses, I would say it is impossible for a new Christian to walk out from under God's New Covenant. Only a very mature believer that knows exactly what he or she is doing would be able to walk away from God and God ALLOW it to happen.  WHO would ever do this and WHY? The call of the world can be very very strong. Suppose a mature Christian got into fornication and loved it so much they were unwilling to repent?  Suppose the Holy Spirit was convicting them again and again. Suppose one day They got tired of the Holy Spirit bugging them and they screamed at God: LEAVE ME ALONE! 

What is God to do? They have chosen the world over Him. These scriptures TELL US what God will do: the Holy Spirit sealing them will LEAVE because He is no longer welcome. And that person will not be able to repent. They will have crossed a line. 

Therefore, according to the written word of God, it IS possible for a believer to be lost.

 

Another scenario: Suppose a true, born again believer, is trapped with sticky fingers. He or she steals. Suppose this believer thinks there is a difference between big sins and little sins. Suppose the Holy Spirit has been trying to get this person to stop stealing.....but this person only thinks it is their conscience bothering them. Suppose they die SUDDENLY in a car accident without repenting of stealing? What is God to do? His word is out: Thieves cannot go to heaven. 

Another scenario: husband and wife get it a bad argument: BOTH are believers - born again. Wife gets so angry she slaps her pastor / husband. He gets very offended and drives off in anger. Still angry, he runs off the road and crashes into a big tree and DIES. He had died while still holding UNFORGIVENESS against his wife. Pastor for years or no pastor, it makes no difference: he has died with unforgiveness, and God has already said that if we don't forgive, neither will HE forgive.  He cannot go to heaven. God cannot go against His word.  However, if his wife prays him back to his body so he is alive once again, THEN He could repent.  

The truth is, a believer CAN be lost. 

 

Here we see The latest variation on “ Lucky Repentance.” May I  direct your attention to a site called “ The Narrow Way” Where God’s  Way Of Salvation— GRACE PLUS NOTHING— has cleverly been supplanted by a confused misunderstanding of the part Repentance plays in Salvation—— right up your alley!

I am so weary of having to contend with this “ treading on the Blood Of Jesus” every month or so, I can’t even force myself to explain the absurdity of it and how it reveals that any adherent to this “Perversion” Of Paul’s Gospel is “ Fallen From Grace” If he Believes it, and “ Accursed” by God  if he Preaches it.Some people are so comfortable adding to the Gospel , they think it is a small thing.....assuming that they are even “ thinking” at all.All that can be said is this—- Read Galations and pray to God that He Opens your eyes.....you are in VERY dangerous territory.

 

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Here we see The latest variation on “ Lucky Repentance.” May I  direct your attention to a site called “ The Narrow Way” Where God’s  Way Of Salvation— GRACE PLUS NOTHING— has cleverly been supplanted by a confused misunderstanding of the part Repentance plays in Salvation—— right up your alley!

I am so weary of having to contend with this “ treading on the Blood Of Jesus” every month or so, I can’t even force myself to explain the absurdity of it and how it reveals that any adherent to this “Perversion” Of Paul’s Gospel is “ Fallen From Grace” If he Believes it, and “ Accursed” by God  if he Preaches it.Some people are so comfortable adding to the Gospel , they think it is a small thing.....assuming that they are even “ thinking” at all.All that can be said is this—- Read Galations and pray to God that He Opens your eyes.....you are in VERY dangerous territory.

 

What you are missing: EVERY born again person gets born again by the grace of God through faith and confession as shown by Paul in Romans 10. Some think that is all there is, but God's word is very plain: we cannot live for the devil after we are born again and hope to live in heaven for eternity. 

Why do you refuse to believe Paul? We are not allowed to cherry pick scriptures we like and ignore the rest. 

1 Corinthians 6:9

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

 

If a born again person makes a habit of fornicating, they are a fornicator. Don't think otherwise! If they repent they are covered. If they repent a hundred times they are covered. But it is possible a born again person can get so into sin they just quit repenting.  

 

Once we are born again, we are to walk in the Spirit, not live after the flesh.

 

Galatians 5:  

¹⁶ This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

¹⁷ For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

¹⁸ But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

²⁰ Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

²¹ Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

Always know, my friend, there are two sides to every coin. God expects mature Christians to walk by the spirit. 

Have you never read about God taking people to hell and showing them how real hell is?  Some have been allowed to talk with people there. They found out born again people ended up in hell. How could such a thing be? It is simple: they cherry picked the scriptures. Some thought there was a difference between big sins and little sins - as if being a thief was too little of a sin for God to notice.

Don't EVER think a born again person that has unforgiveness and is unwilling to let go of it is going to end up in heaven. God has made it clear, if WE don't forgive others, then God is not going to forgive us. This is the other side of the coin. It is what God demands of His born again children. A baby Christian can get away with things a mature Christian cannot. One person can be in sin in one area and get away with it, but another cannot. God looks on the heart. 

Another thing: God has given us a conscience: it is the voice of our born again spirit. But when God is trying to get us to let go of a sin, many think it is just their conscience bothering them! Imagine that! The Holy Spirit is in the human spirit, so when He speaks, it is to our human spirit, not to our conscious mind.  You speak of dangerous: what is dangerous is for a born again believer to live against his or her conscience! 

This has NOTHING to do with how people GET born again: by faith through faith. It has to do with obeying Jesus who saved us once we ARE born again. 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

20 hours ago, Behold said:

The only 'pressure" that was being put on those unsaved Hebrews, was the Conviction of the Holy Spirit while Paul was preaching the Cross.

They had the very same reaction to Stephen, and stoned him to death.  Another notable case of Hebrew Messiah rejection,  was the crucifixion of Christ.

Listen, you find yourself at odds with the Grace of God.

My advice to you, is to find a different reason to spend time on a Christian Forum.   As when your purpose here is to only try to deny the effect of The Grace of God and subvert the faith of real believers, you find yourself at odds with the Cross.

Being in direct opposition to the Blood of Christ and His finished Work, is not what you want to be doing.

Sorry, I have no problem with God's grace: it is the only way anyone can come to God and be born again. Neither am I at odds with the blood of Christ that took away the sins of the world. 

What is happening here is you are cherry picking the scriptures and not looking at the other side of the coin.  

Perhaps you could prove this: get angry with someone and then refuse to forgive them. Hold a grudge for the rest of your life and then see if YOU are forgiven.  This would be one way to prove if God forgives when we don't.  I certainly don't recommend this!

You might want to look up and read about Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu.  He would most certainly disagree with you. He died with unforgiveness, planning on how to get even when he died. If his wife had let him stay dead, he would be in hell. He would be the first to tell you that. The angel made that very clear to him. Thank God, his wife refused to leave him dead. 

It would be good just to believe all the scriptures.  Then form a theory that fits all scripture, not the scriptures people like. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by iamlamad