Divorce

[Abrielle]

On 4/9/2020 at 12:02 AM, RarexxRose said:

How is divorce or getting a divorce a spiritual work? How do you know if you are truly and fully divorced from a person?

@RarexxRose, I have no idea and i should be the last one to speak, because i never experienced anything similar. But i have someone i treasure in mind, who had the same questions you have here. I will tell you about her, because even when we don't relate to other people's stories, they can keep us good company:

When my dear friend was an atheist, she married a man in the catholic church, for her family wanted her to follow their traditions. One year later, her marriage was unbearable, she tried everything she could, but as he didn't do any effort, she divorced him. A couple of years later, she became a believer and was baptised. Even though she was an atheist when she married him, she believed that her word before God mattered, regardless of the church and her disbelief by then. She was certain that she would only be free of that marriage once her ex-husband got into another relationship. Some agreed, others didn't, but she set this mark in her mind, it was her certain answer: She would be a free woman, once her ex-husband got a new girlfriend.

She was struggling with the pain of not having her own family and prayed that God allowed her to know when her ex-husband had a new person. We went camping with several friends. In that camping, we met a godly man around her age, who liked her. During that same week, her mother sent her a message: Wonderful news! Your ex-husband has a new girlfriend, they have been living together for almost a year. As the man she divorced was a non-believer and was living with another woman, surely they would have had intimate relations, which for us is adultery, which frees my friend of that marriage. Remember the answer she gave to herself before. According to her own mark, this would officialise the divorce. Yet, my friend started to find as many excuses for him as accusations for her. All i could see was a tormented soul. She was holding on the guilt, in order to feel spiritually accurate. Such empty effort doesn't come from God and prevents us from going to Him.
After a few days locked in her home alone, with cellphones off, she reappeared all light and smily; above all, she looked comforted. She dated that man she met while camping. Not too many years later, they became a family of four.

I believe spiritual "obstacles" are taken care in a personal, individual way. No perfect answer can be given from the outside, specially by those who don't know ones case. But we can be sure of one thing: If we feel loaded, we aren't carrying the right baggage... I pray for you to find your answers near God, who always has a fresh start ready for us.

 



[Novus]

1 hour ago, Godismyloveforever said:

Encourage this can solve so many problems.  Children, especially boys, with no father are at high risk of so many bad things happening.  The current mindset of a working mother is all he needs is abominable. 

Statistics speak to the disadvantages of children in single parent homes. I think Satan would want families to break down and disintegrate. I would say that a father has natural inbuilt protective instincts toward those he loves. Remove the father and the family becomes more vulnerable.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Novus

[Refresher]

5 hours ago, Behold said:

In Paul's day, and also in Jude's day, religious cross rejectors accused them of preaching that Sin has been removed, the Law has been abolished, and God has redeemed us back into the family of God, all by Himself, thru the Blood of Jesus.   And HALLELUJAH, that is absolutely TRUE.   As Salvation IS a free Gift.  Righteousness IS a free Gift.   So, the religious, the self saver, the Cross rejector, bites and chews at this Truth, as they are not able to have FAITH that Christ and Christ alone is the Savior who saves...... and by His same Blood, keeps you saved.

Its an odd mental block that Legalists have, that if you tell them...>"What SAVED YOU< Keeps you Saved"..  They can't hear it. They can't understand it, and they don't want to KNOW.

This is absolutely a Spiritual darkness, a complete spiritual Blindness,  that is keeping them from seeing the Light of God's Amazing Grace.  The name of this spiritual darkness is Self Righteous Pride.

--------------------------------

"how shall we who have died to sin, continue in it". ?????????

Our sin has been judged, and not against us.  It is Christ who bore our sin and became our sin.  And because God judged Christ in our place on Earth on THE CROSS=, God will never judge a born again child of God, in eternity.    See, what Christ did on Earth on The Cross, delivers  its end result in Heaven, before God, as our Eternal SALVATION.

Its JESUS who has "Obtained Eternal Redemption for us"......so, that is not YOU....It's not ME.  It's THIS....""For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from/of yourselves, it is the gift of God"....  Ephesians 2:8
A Legalist, a heretic, can't see this.. They are mind blinded, spiritually speaking.  Their idea of salvation is ..... "I Agree that Christ died, but then the work begins, for the rest of my life, i will try to make myself acceptable to God by MY SELF EFFORT""" .   And this is absolutely rejected by God, as this "gospel" absolutely rejects The Grace of God.

The root of Legalism....or "self saving".... The effort of trying to make yourself acceptable to God......is found in Genesis, with Cain.   Its the "error of Cain"... Its the same Legalism as you find on this Forum and all over the world...... and in hundred's of thousands of Pulpits.   Its the BELIEF that you can approach God, and find favor and acceptance by being GOOD ENOUGH, by trying hard enough.  And as God rejected Cain, He will reject all attempts to union with Him thru "SELF"

A Legalist will say......"yes, i know that Jesus saves, but after He does, i have to keeping doing......MY CROSS THAT I'M ON......Trying to KEEP MYSELF SAVED.

Reader, carrying your Cross of self denial, and carrying your Cross regarding rejecting the Lust the world invites you to eat is Discipleship, and this  is absolutely not the same as hanging yourself on a Cross by your own Self Righteousness Nails,  by trying to save yourself and keep yourself saved. 

And, one more thing READER, = the Grace of God attacking/rejecting term "license to sin", is oddly used only by hyper religious self savers who reject the Grace of God and Justification by Faith.  Everyone who has been subverted from Faith in Christ to Faith in Self-works, argues against the Grace of God as a Free Gift and uses the term "cheap grace" or "license to sin" as their self righteous attack against the Cross and the Blood of Jesus. 

 

I am totally agree with you Behold …to your explanation about the salvation, the grace of God, the mercy of God, the blood of Jesus Christ and His sufferings, all of these are true. And these are the truth before we received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior..and yes we were forgiven already the moment that we received salvation.

I am citing about our  life already with Jesus Christ and God is our Father... in short we are already inside the kingdom of God.…this is what I said >>>>>>>>Be reminded  We need to know that misuse and abuse of grace is not acceptable to God the Father, the bible says, shall we continue to sin so the grace of God may abound? certainly not...yes we are under by the grace of God but we need to understand that grace is not also a license to continue to sin. 

Romans 6 New King James Version (NKJV)

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? ² Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

 

[Refresher]

Just now, Refresher said:

I am totally agree with you Behold …to your explanation about the salvation, the grace of God, the mercy of God, the blood of Jesus Christ and His sufferings, all of these are true. And these are the truth before we received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior..and yes we were forgiven already the moment that we received salvation.

I am citing about our  life already with Jesus Christ and God is our Father... in short we are already inside the kingdom of God.…this is what I said >>>>>>>>Be reminded  We need to know that misuse and abuse of grace is not acceptable to God the Father, the bible says, shall we continue to sin so the grace of God may abound? certainly not...yes we are under by the grace of God but we need to understand that grace is not also a license to continue to sin. 

Romans 6 New King James Version (NKJV)

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? ² Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

 

Again Repost:

A good picture here is Mary Magdalene in  John 8:4-11  

⁴ “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery, The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”  They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who, has never sinned throw the first stone!”⁸ Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.  When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman.  Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”  “No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Insights: Jesus said, "Neither do I . Go and sin no more- it means that we were already forgiven from all sins but Go and sin no  more, it means stop committing adultery or fornication.

1 Peter 1:15-16 "  but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

Keywords:  In all conduct.

"Be Imitators of God"  Ephesians 5:1-2 Amplified Bible (AMP)

5 Therefore become imitators of God [copy Him and follow His example], as well-beloved children [imitate their father]; ² and walk continually in love [that is, value one another—practice empathy and compassion, unselfishly seeking the best for others], just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and sacrifice to God [slain for you, so that it became] a sweet fragrance.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 

Keywords: the breastplate of righteousness must be put on 24 hours a day.

Conclusion: All above scriptures are under the new covenant or  under the New Testament, so it means we need to live a holy life as well and not to contiue to sin.

•  

[Wesley L]

On 4/13/2020 at 6:43 PM, Behold said:

Actually, your New Testament , Jesus speaking, says that except for the cause of FORNICATION"

Good day,

Can you please explain how you fornicate while beijng married?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Wesley L

[Wesley L]

In matthew Jesus said, Love God, love your neighbour as yourself. All laws are derived from these two most important laws.

Thus with all our actions we should check whether we stay faithfull to Jesus His teachings.

should you divorce your spouse if you think she is not your cup of tea anymore?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Wesley L

[Refresher]

On 4/14/2020 at 4:14 AM, Novus said:

I don't think it is biblical to "DIVORCE, move on...Find a good Christian Mate". What the bible seems to teach relating to a separation (and this may include a situation where a divorce has already occurred - past tense) is to remain separated or reconcile - 1 Corinthians 7:11 - But and if she depart (in the Greek the tense of the word is in the past tense - if a separation has already occurred), let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.  Also to consider is Romans 7:2-3 - For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.  So what Paul seems to be saying here, is that married people are in a continual state of marriage as long as either is still alive - only death dissolves the marriage bond. That is why "remarriage" after divorce while your "first" married partner is still alive constitutes adultery – which is what this passage seems to be saying. Reconciliation is preferable - repentance, forgiveness and if possible live in peace or remain separated.

The danger: People who have been advised to remarry after divorce while their first married partner is still living, are in a state of adultery and not marriage. The danger may be exclusion from God's Kingdom - Romans 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 

This is a hard teaching - very difficult and narrow. My understanding is that most Pastors today do not teach this view. If you track back in history, you will find that this "narrow" view is more consistent as you get closer to the Apostles teachings. So where did the "change" in thinking occur? It occured with a Catholic Monk - Erasmus at the time of the Reformation.

I would prefer to remain Biblical on the subject of remarriage after divorce. Don't take my word for it...study careful for yourself what the Bible actually says (to include the "exception clause"  in Matthew 19:9 - And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery - read in context. "Fornication" is the sin of a couple not actually married (albeit engaged to be married). May the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth - John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Behold, I am very much agree about the above context from Mr. Novus.

[Wesley L]

17 hours ago, choir loft said:

On 4/13/2020 at 1:06 PM, Wesley L said:

Divorce is a sin. (unless adultery is involved) How can we ask the Holy Spirit to guide us through a divorce process?
If I robbed a bank, won't dare to ask the Holy Spirit to guide me through the process of getting away with it... I'd ask for forgiveness.

Don't understand your post.

Are you saying adultery justifies divorce?   

In some states one may qualify for a divorce if the man or woman has engaged in an adulterous affair.  That's secular law.  It isn't Biblical.

When Jesus was asked about divorce He reminded the Jews present that Moses had allowed divorce, but that God does not. (Mark 10:1-12)

ANY sexual relationship between a divorced man or woman is adultery, even after the Mosaic certificate of divorce had been granted.

So you see, I'm perplexed by your post.  I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Hi,

Matthew 19:8-9 He (Jesus) said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
My understanding is. Husband and wives should not get a divorce. And when after divorce one gets remarried, that will be seen as adultery by God.
Just like anytime a true believer can sin, we should ask for forgiveness for our sins and not ask God to bless our sinning ways / lead us in our sinful ways.
How I had understood "except for immorality" said by Jesus: "When a man keeps having mistresses and neglects his own wife (continues unrepentant immorality). The wife is allowed to divorce her adulterous husband and have peace with it". But I believe if the wife manages to stay with the husband, persevere in Christ, God will bless her according to His will.

Mark 10:9 “What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate”
God's will is for a couple to forgive, repent, trust in Christ and stay together. 

My points are:
1. Do not divorce, persevere in Christ. (God's will)
2. If you decide to divorce, only reason should be continues sexual immorality by your spouse. (God's compassion towards the inflicted)
3. Don't ask for God's blessing while not doing God's will.

P.S. God's will is also for us not to steal, lie, hate, covet and much more.
In our walk with Christ, we try with the help of the Holy Spirit to follow Christ as closely as possible. We sometimes fail, as we are still walking in the flesh.
As much as we want that other brothers and sisters show compassion towards our failings, we also should be the same towards others.
Never to cast the first stone. But always boldly keep reminding each other what God's will is.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Wesley L
p.s.

[Behold]

10 hours ago, Refresher said:

 We need to know that misuse and abuse of grace is not acceptable to God the Father, the bible says, shall we continue to sin so the grace of God may abound? certainly not...yes we are under by the grace of God but we need to understand that grace is not also a license to continue to sin. 

Romans 6 New King James Version (NKJV)

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? ² Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

 

Reader,

To begin with, there is no more SIN, if you are a Born Again Christian.   This is because Jesus bore them and became them, on the CROSS, and so, that was all your sin, being JUDGED when Jesus died for them..   Next, "Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE of the LAW".... And this simply means that the Law and Commandments have no more authority to judge you as anything, much less a "sinner".   Jesus said in Matthew 28:18.  that "all power and authority is given to ME"...so, there goes the Laws power to Judge you, that Jesus removed by His Blood and Death.

So, what is even more...... In Romans 4:8 .... we are told that God does not charge any of our deeds to us that use to be considered as sinning.....

And then, Paul who is the one who is teaching all this "justification by faith" Doctrine, explains that what use to be defined by the Law as "sin" , can't be anymore, as the Law has no more authorithy to judge you as a sinner.    So, what is "sin" now renamed ??????? , now that we are "no longer under the law but under GRACE".

Its called "works of the FLESH".....and here is the list..... 

Galatians 5:19-21 

19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH  are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings,."

Notice that before a person is born again, all those were titled  SIN......and that is because you were under the LAW's authority and dominion  BEFORE you were born again....And now that "" you are not under the law but under Grace""" , these same deeds are NOW redefined by GRACE=  thru the blood of Jesus's forgiveness as "works of the flesh".

------------------

So Refresher...., i dont think any real Believer would argue that we are not to try live a lifestyle that reflects God holiness.

The reality is, i know of no preacher or teacher who would teach that now that you are born again, you can live like the devil.  As a matter of fact, it's the Grace of God that produces the holy life... It does not produce the unholy life..  So, the more a person is able to leave their "self saving" ideas, and begin to completely trust in God to keep them saved thru the blood of Jesus, the more they will come out from under the bondage to the Law, that is in their MINDS.....   and they will be more holy for it.

It is actually the power of the Law that causes you to sin more......So, once you are born again, then the more you understand  God's  GRACE , the less you will sin.   And thats a fact.

The preaching of the Cross, is the teaching of the Grace of God that redeems you from your sin....and its the previous power of the Law that had dominion over you, that was causing you to sin.

Reader, if you follow me here, and you are hearing me, spiritually, then what im giving you will break chains of sin.  See, the Grace of God is the Freedom from sin that Jesus has provided, and not just the payment for it..   So, when you find someone , a church, a teacher, a commentary, that is giving God and Christ all the credit for saving you and keeping you saved, they are actually giving you the keys to live the most Holy Lifestyle that you can possibly ever live..

The Law, and Commandments, if you try to keep them, by self effort, will inflame your desire to sin.     But the Grace of God, frees you from that "strength of sin" which is found by trying to keep the Law..... God's Grace breaks the chain of sinning..  While legalism, the "self effort" Gospel, will cause you to sin more, and never have Peace, and never find a truly close personal relationship with God thru Christ.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Behold

[Behold]

10 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Good day,

Can you please explain how you fornicate while beijng married?

How do YOU fornicate while being married. ????

Well, you can go next door, after your best friend leaves, and you can have sexual relations with His wife.

You have now "fornicated", and you have become "one flesh" with her, and now you have created a spiritual KNOT.