Saints and The Faithful

[Behold]

19 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

 

From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members

 

"can any 2 walk together unless they be agreed"?

Paraphrase..."can the Grace of God, under attack on a "christian forum" not lead to endless fighting?

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Behold

[kwikphilly]

Quote

"can the Grace of God, under attack on a "christian forum" not lead to endless fighting?

Of course it can......walk away    If anyone is not in agreement & they persist in arguing then they are not Receiving,right? Certainly no one has ever been argued into Believing,have they?

Quote

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Matthew 10:14

                                                    With love-in Christ Jesus,Kwik

[dhchristian]

43 minutes ago, Behold said:

"can any 2 walk together unless they be agreed"?

Paraphrase..."can the Grace of God, under attack on a "christian forum" not lead to endless fighting?

That is called the conviction of the Holy Ghost that you are reacting against with your comment. I Merely quoted Scripture to you from James, yet you see it as an attack on your faith. Is James' epistle Wrong for saying this, Or is it you who have the Problem here? 

Btw, the verse you quote is from Amos and has nothing to do with Grace or the new covenant in Christ's Blood. You are using it for your justification of Judging those who do not agree with your doctrine, and as an excuse not to learn from other parts of the Body of Christ to reach the fulness of Christ. We all Know in part Even Paul only Knew in Part, But in the fellowship of unity we shall have that glass that is blinding us removed as we see our brothers and sisters perspective.

 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (Eph 3:9-10)

This is what is hindering you from the fellowship of the Mystery.... Do You even Know what this means? Why Are You denying Jesus? That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 17:21) 

 

 

[Behold]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

That is called the conviction of the Holy Ghost that you are reacting against with your comment. I Merely quoted Scripture to you from James, yet you see it as an attack on your faith.

 

 

Actually, @dhchristian, i never view anything that you write or teach, as an attack upon my faith.   As generally your only continuing attack on anyone who is not a Calvinist is..>"you are a dead wood do nothing, who is asleep in the Light". = Complacent.  As that is all you actually have to say.   You just wrap that one condemnation in 100 posts.  But its always the same core..  

We have another member here who also likes to endlessly Thread that we are all being "shaken" and are all dead wood do nothings, not growing, not working......so, you and that person, are basically the same poster, but you post more Calvinism, and He posts more man made hybrid religious concepts then tells us that we can lose our salvation.  At least you are not posting that, so, good for you.

So, when i read your last comment, i was responding in this context.. :

= What causes Chaos on Forums, and in Churches, and BETWEEN all denomination is..  "can any 2 walk together, unless they be agreed"..... And its THE worse fight, when they dont agree about the Blood Atonement, with regards to it power to continue to keep a person Saved.

See, there is only on fight between the Devil and the Born Again.... Its not him trying to tempt us into some work of the Flesh.... as we can do that ourselves, by and through our own lust.  We dont even need the Devil for that .....

No, the fight, the actual fight between the Devil and the Light as it plays out worldwide and universe deep between believers, is only..... Grace Alone SAVES, or Works you must do, keeps you saved.

That is... Jesus Saves  vs  YOU Try To keep Yourself Saved.  These are not the same Gospel.

Those are 2 Gospels.   Paul says one is Galatians 1:8.   and Jesus says the other is "Justification by Faith" Alone. "The Gift of Righteousness".  And He should know.

One of those Gospels is the Devil's.

You have those who are working to STAY SAVED who are fighting with Those Who are Trusting in Christ ALONE to Keep them Saved.

= 2 Gospels

The only way to stop this, is to get rid of one or the other group, or you just stop allowing this TOPIC TO BE Discussed.   As long as its allowed, then the bitterness, the meanness, the fighting, will blaze on.

And i'll. let you figure out which of those "Gospel's" is the Devil's as i know you love to contemplate an idea.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Behold

[dhchristian]

6 hours ago, Behold said:

As generally your only continuing attack on anyone who is not a Calvinist is.

Once again, you falsely accuse me of being a Calvinist, Because I defend them as Brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. How many times has "Got questions" been posted here on this site? They are Calvinists, and they do a fine Job of defending the faith, and the doctrine of Grace. The Point of this Post is to rectify the errors in the Calvinist AND Arminian mindset, With a correction of an error they Both make, and that most evangelicals for that matter make. 

For someone who is supposedly free from condemnation, there certainly is a lot of condemnation in your heart, and false accusation. I Was Honestly expecting more from you. "You shall know them by their fruit" 

"Cicero, the Roman Orator, Once warned His hearers that they were in Danger of Making Philosophy a substitute for action instead of allowing it to produce action. What is true of Philosophy is also true of religion. The Faith of Christ was never intended to be an end in itself not to serve instead of something else.  In the minds of some, faith stands in lieu of Moral conduct and every inquirer must take his choice between the two. We are presented with the well known either/or: either we have faith or we have works, and faith saves us while works damn us. Hence the tremendous emphasis on faith in the apologetic , mincing approach to the doctrine of personal holiness in modern evangelism. This error has lowered the Moral standards of the church and helped to lead us into the wilderness where we currently find ourselves. 

Rightly Understood, faith is not a substitute for moral conduct but a means toward it. The tree does not serve in lieu of the fruit, but as an agent by which the fruit is secured. Fruit not trees is the end God has in mind in yonder orchard; so Christ like conduct is the end of Christian faith. To Oppose faith To Works is to make the fruit the enemy to the tree; yet that is exactly what we have managed to do. And the consequences have been disastrous. (A. W. Tozer, Of God and Men, "Religion Should Produce Action", Pp. 59-60)

What Tozer says here is How I see it. Saving faith is the beginning of the Christian walk, which enables the fruit of the Spirit to grow on the vine provided we abide in that vine.  Teaching that you have to make a choice between faith and works is akin to having only half the Gospel. We are saved by grace, we are kept by grace and we are sanctified by grace, Without this experience of all of these things in our Christian faith, we were never saved in the first place, But were victim to the easy believism Cult, where mental acknowledgement of a doctrine is equated with the Gospel. That if you agree with the doctrine with your mind, you have all you need. Exactly as the article I posted above by Tozer accurately States. (Several comments above this one).

Sound's tome like you are in the easy believism camp? I cannot Judge that as God Knows your heart, But what you are teaching is nothing more than a mental acknowledgement of the Gospel as opposed to a vitalizing and reviving Gospel, that "saves to the uttermost" (Completely).

Look up a video entitled: A. W. Tozer Rebukes Easy Believism and Preaches Lordship Salvation | What is a Real Christian?

By Jesse Morrel, You will find it very informative. 

[Behold]

7 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Once again, you falsely accuse me of being a Calvinist, Because I defend them as Brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. How many times has "Got questions" been posted here on this site? They are Calvinists, and they do a fine Job of defending the faith, and the doctrine of Grace. The Point of this Post is to rectify the errors in the Calvinist AND Arminian mindset, With a correction of an error they Both make, and that most evangelicals for that matter make. 

 

Im aware of what you are teaching.

What im not clear on, regarding you, is if you actually believe that God chooses to not allow some who are born...... their Free will to accept God's salvation, and you instead teach that God caused them to be lost by not allowing them the free will option to be saved.

Do you believe that God has pre-destined some to burn in the Lake of fire, is my question.  So, if you can say...."yes or no" before you teach anything else in your next post,  that would be great.

There is no reason to dodge a simple question.  Just answer it....."yes i believe that God pre destines (causes) some to burn in the lake of fire, or ..."no i dont".

Edited May 1, 2020 by Behold

[dhchristian]

The Communion of the Saints

Now, before there can be communion there must be union. The sharers are one in a sense altogether above organization, nationality, race or denomination. That oneness is a divine thing, achieved by the Holy Spirit in the act of regeneration. Whoever is born of God is one with everyone else who is born of God. Just as gold is always gold, wherever and in whatever shape it is found, and every detached scrap of gold belongs to the true family and is composed of the same element, so every regenerate soul belongs to the universal Christian community and to the fellowship of the saints. http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=170

I Love this analogy Tozer Uses of Union of the saints. Gold comes in many forms it can be in flakes, or in nuggets or in a vein embedded in other minerals such as quartz. Some Gold is even in the form of Dust, almost too microscopic to see but because it can be panned and separated from the other sand and scraps around it will eventually glimmer on its own. Such are all who have been Born again. The More we join together, and refine the Gold, the more value the church has as a whole to the Kingdom of God. In the Whole Ingot of Gold, what matters no longer is the size of the scrap from which that Gold came, but the size of the Whole Ingot which belongs to God. 

Most Gold is mined in the form of dust accumulated over time. Very few of those original grains are in the form of flakes, and fewer still in the form of Nuggets, But all are one in Christ Jesus, from the faithful grain of Gold, to the 2 pound nugget of a saint. All of it must be refined, some is washed in a pan, some is dug out of the earth and Some have to be ground out of the rock, all are refined in the fire that burns off the dross. Then and only then can it all join together in the communion of the Saints, that has accumulated through the ages in the Ingot of Gold which is the Church of God. 

It is said of heaven that the streets are paved with Gold, We are called Lively stones in the Temple of God, Some are Stones with a new name written on them, Each scrap of Gold has its place in heaven. How Much we contribute to the heavenly treasure is determined by how we live our Life here on this earth. Are we satisfied with remaining mixed in the sand of this world, Or will we be washed that we may glisten in the pan? Will we allow ourselves to be crushed with the rock and burned in the refining fires and the dross removed so that we can shine greater still? Will we remain apart, or will we join with the nugget and become Part of the heavenly Kingdom.  

[Debp]

On 4/29/2020 at 8:54 AM, dhchristian said:

If every born again believer is a saint why is the church more divided and powerless today than ever before?

Everyone who attends a church or sometimes even pastors a church are not necessarily born again.    Some people who attend a church don't even know the way of salvation.   They think you must be a good person or do good works to receive eternal life....rather than knowing Christ as our Savior who paid the price for our sins, and are therefore forgiven through Him.

 

 

[Behold]

6 hours ago, [orthodox] Catholic said:

How is that so ?  By what line of reason is it, that everyone who is redemed by the Blood of Jesus (and everyone is) is

• (a) Born Again
• and 
• (b) a Saint (meaning Born Again = Saint) ?

Noting that @dhchristian has bothered enough to explain that Saints are distinguished from the rest of the elect.  You may wish to answer to that, rather than simply making an unsubstantiated declaration.

The  false teaching that "saints" are separated from the rest of the "elect" is someone's theology that is rejected by most of what you would refer to at mainline denominations. 

The reality is this....when you are referring to the "time of the gentiles", then anytime you see the word "elect", then just exchange it for "born again", and this way you eliminate terrible theology and nonsense.

The Law defines a sinner as a sinner.

Grace defines a born again person, as a saint.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Behold

[AngelInTraining93]

On 4/29/2020 at 11:54 AM, dhchristian said:

If every born again believer is a saint why is the church more divided and powerless today than ever before?

Because they followed the Devil into powerlessness out of the church and into worldly religions like Catholicism. 

Name a single scripture in which it is explicitly stated that saints differ from those born again.