Why Christians should support Israel?

[Guest shiloh357]

Please understand I do not see you as the enemy. It is just that you are making grossly inaccurate assumptions about history. You say that we need to lose the history and live in the present. Yet everybody continually reminds of our history. If we suffer, it is because of what our ancestors did two-thousand years ago we are told. We are constantly reminded by others of the mistakes of our forerunners at every turn, yet we are told not to live in the past.

It is one thing to say that we each pay for our sins. Sin has consequences, and that I do not disagree with you about. However, blaming the madness and demonic insanity of Hitler upon the Jews, is just wrong.

Because you are not Jewish, it is a bit harder for you to understand, I suppose. I have been told by others that the Jews suffered in the holocaust because of their rejection of Christ. This is a horrible thing to say to a Jew.

Do you say those kinds of things to other people are not saved?

Do you say to unsaved parents that they reason their teen was hit by a drunk driver is because they are not saved? or because their teen was not saved?

Would you have the nerve to tell an unsaved man that the reason his wife died in childbirth was because they are not Christians?

That would be pretty callous, wouldn't it? It is just as callous to tell Jews caused the Holocaust because of their rejection of Christ. You simply do not have the authority to make that assumption, just as you do not have the authority to blame any unfortunate event on what someone does or does not do.

I understand that your intentions are honorable, but you need to understand that your assumptions about why the holocaust occured are flat wrong.

Besides that has nothing to do with why we as believers should or should not support Israel in their war for survival in the Middleeast.]

Why do Jews think that we are the enemys. This makes no sense to me.

Because for two-thousand years, Jews have been kicked out of every Christian nation in Europe, they have been subjected to centuries of pograms, inquisitions, second class citizenship, called Christ killers, and have been blamed for bad economies, plagues, and of course most Christians looked the other way during the holocaust and they could do so, because, "Hey, the Jews rejected Jesus! This is their fault."

I do not see Christians as the enemy because I know the truth. It still hurts when you make such statements as "The Jews caused the Holocaust." You have no idea what it is like to read that, especially from a Christian.

Stop saying that I blame anyone.

Yet you say:

The Jews caused the holocaust, because they denied God.

The Bible is not against the Jews at all. Why even say that?

Where do you even get that from?

It it that you dont like correction?

What is it that makes you think that way?

To take words and twist them to make it say what you want it to say.

That is not even close to what I said.

I never said that the Bible was against the Jews. I simply pointed out your faulty use of Scripture. You cited the statement made by a handful of Jewish religious leaders, "Let his blood be upon us and our children." This is what you said:

The have been persecuted ever since. When they said to ceaser Crucify Him. He asked them Why? He has done no wrong. They said Crucify Him. Let His blood be on our children and their childrens children. The curse came because of this. It was brought on themselves.

It is not to ridicule them but we speak our own future. Just as God does.

You erroneously stated that those Jews spoke the future of all Jews for all time with that one statement. Of course, we do NOT speak our future, that is error, but that is another issue. You explained Jewish persecution, by what these Jews did two thousand years ago, and then say that you are not placing blame on anyone. You need to decide which it is. You can't argue it both ways.

[Guest yod]

Sanctifyfied,

You should admit that you are only repeating what you've heard without really giving it much thought. You are saying what has been said since the earliest rift between jews and christians

Let God's Word be true and every man a liar.

[Sanctyfied]

Edited July 22, 2004 by Sanctyfied

[Guest shiloh357]

You must understand that this is not anything I have heard from anywhere.

This is what the Bible tells me as I read it. This is The Word of God as He told me.

Oh please, you are repeating opinions and judgements of men that have been passed down for centuries. Do not pretend that your take on the holocaust came from God. That is just plain false.

Do you say to unsaved parents that they reason their teen was hit by a drunk driver is because they are not saved? or because their teen was not saved?

Would you have the nerve to tell an unsaved man that the reason his wife died in childbirth was because they are not Christians?

This is interesting. It depends on the situation.

Depends on the situation? You do not have the authority to make those kinds of judgements, no one does. Bad things happen to people because we live in a fallen world, things happen because they happen. The worst thing you can tell a sinner is that tragedies occur in their lives, because they are sinners. That is not only cruel, but is unscriptural. I would never want someone that believes like you, on any evangelistic team I was part of.

I cannot speak for Hitler or the Jews. Why did he do it? I dont know. but it happened for a reason.

And instead of it happening because Hitler was a deranged, demon possessed madman, you would prefer to blame it all on unsaved Jews.

[Guest yod]

Sanctyfied...can you admit that you "might" be wrong about this?

[Sanctyfied]

Edited July 22, 2004 by Sanctyfied

[Guest yod]

sheesh....

the Great Apostasy has begun.

[Guest shiloh357]

Nope cause it is all true and you dont have that right to tell it isnt God you dont have that authority.

If you live in sin expect the consequences that all. If you cant handle it then you need to read more. lol

If you read the Bible You might be able to see it also.

I see that all you want to do is twist my words around still. Dont tell me what is of God and what isnt. It people like you that satan loves to use. Just as he twist the Word of God around I see who your father is.

I dont take what someone preaches and go from there. I you cant believe that I feel sorry for YOU.

It is obvious that you dont even the His voice. Cause your eyes are closed to the truth.

I feel sorry for you and I will Pray for you. If others have Preached this for centuries. Then maybe I caught on to something righteous and true. Cause I never have heard of it before in my entire life Until the Holy Spirit revealed it to me Himself. If you dont believe me than oh well. I have told you truth. With the atitude you both take at this. And if all of Israel acts the same no wonder why there is so much war over there. You only listen to what you want to, and then start jump down thier throat. May God help you both.

Now you have shown your true colors. I have not twisted your words around once in this thread. I have quoted you word for word. I never altered anything you said.

You have too much pride to admit that you don't have a grasp on fact or history, and you try to blame the victims of evil instead of the evil doers who perpetrate them. That is pure futility on this board, bucko!!

I am not going to allow you to blame Jews for the holocaust. You are not going to do that on this board unchallenged. If you have a problem with it, then perhaps you need an attitude adjustment.

It people like you that satan loves to use. Just as he twist the Word of God around I see who your father is.

Again, the truth about you finally comes out. You are biblically, historically, and factually inaccurate on every point you have made, and then try to blame it on revelations you get from God. If we don't accept that, then we are of the devil. I would expect that kind of reponse from your kind. We have gotten that on this board before.

And if all of Israel acts the same no wonder why there is so much war over there.

Yeah, there's war over there, beause Israel does'nt just sit back take what their enemies dish out. They aren't a bunch of cowards that people can push around. Israel showed the world that it is not the size of the dog in the fight that counts, but it's the size of the fight that's in the dog!! They don't let people walk all over them, and the world hates them because of it, just like you resent me for not letting you run roughshod in this thread with your ridiculous, messed up theology. You lost the argument a long time ago, buddy.

[Guest yod]

Sanctyfied.

It's no shame to admit that you don't have any idea what you are talking about. It's pretty obvious to everyone here already.

But whatever....

[Sanctyfied]

Edited July 22, 2004 by Sanctyfied