PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

[halifaxchristian]

I am on the fence. I am honestly not sure about a pre-trib or not (though I tend to lean towards the pre-trib theory). Sue, can you answer this one for me. Why will no one know the day or hour if we know that exactly 7 years after the antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel that Jesus returns??? The pretribulation theory accounts for this. The post-tribulation theory does not make Jesus' return a secret at all. According to what you hold to, I should be able to figure out the day and hour quite easily. Would like to get your opinion. God bless.

Michael.

Edited July 19, 2005 by halifaxchristian

[Christ's Free Servant]

Yes, the article was quite good, but the reason for the concern I believe I have highlighted above. Remember that the anti-christ will fool the elect if possible, and he is trying his brains out and succeeding on many fronts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree wholeheartedly!! And, God is calling his messengers (his watchmen and watchwomen) to get the word out to as many as possible. Sad to say that not many will listen and heed the warning, but that does not change our responsibility to get the message out. We must warn them against false teaching and against living like the world does and we must call people to repentance and to holy living. We must do what we can to prepare people for the return of Christ and to teach them the crucified life so that they are not easily deceived. And, yes, there is a BIG deception in the church today and Satan is having a heyday over it! But, Christ is the ultimate victor!! Praise God HE will win the battle against Satan!!

[Christ's Free Servant]

I am on the fence.  I am honestly not sure about a pre-trib or not (though I tend to lean towards the pre-trib theory).  Sue, can you answer this one for me.  Why will no one know the day or hour if we know that exactly 7 years after the antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel that Jesus returns???  The pretribulation theory accounts for this.  The post-tribulation theory does not make Jesus' return a secret at all.  According to what you hold to, I should be able to figure out the day and hour quite easily.  Would like to get your opinion.  God bless.

Michael.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Michael,

The second coming of Christ is not supposed to be a secret. The Bible says that EVERY eye shall see him and that people all over the earth will mourn at his coming. He only comes like a thief in the night to those who are asleep, but to us who are awake he will not overtake us like a thief. We will know when he is near by the signs. The Bible says this. And, I don't think we should suppose that it will be an exact 7 years to the day, hour and minute anyway.

Notice that it says we will not know the day nor the hour. It does not say we won't know the year or the month or even the week. The Bible is quite clear that we are to be watching for his coming and that we are to be living holy lives and we are to see the signs and his coming should not overtake us like a thief in the night. That says to me that we will know when it is near, right at the door. We just won't know the exact day or hour.

Let me ask you a question: Why would the Lord bother to give us all of these prophesies about the return of Christ and the seven years of tribulation if he did not intend for us, no. 1 to recognize when his coming is near, and 2. to remain here on the earth during the tribulation? It seems to me he could have just told us he is coming at any time so be ready - skip the stuff in between and head right to the millennium. Why do we need to know about the tribulation if Christ is going to take us out?

[Trinity]

i have a feeling that you guys are Ignoring my last Post... Can you answer it for me?

[Sirsilius]

Well, im a Heretic according to your opening post, but im a proud one

Edited July 21, 2005 by Sirsilius

[Sirsilius]

Revelation 2:7

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Revelation 2:11

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Revelation 2:17

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Revelation 2:29

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Revelation 3:6

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Revelation 3:13

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Revelation 3:22

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Then, while the trubulation is going on!!!

Revelation 13:9

He who has an ear, let him hear.

Where is the Church? why would it not say to the churches anymore???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, are you aware that these same words [church and churches] are also absent from 2 Tim., Titus, 1 & 2 Peter, 1 & 2 John, and Jude? Is the church absent then too?

Titus and 2 John don't even mention Christians, brother(s), brethren, or saint(s) (although they both mention the word "elect"). Does that mean those books don't even pertain to us? No- not at all!

Now this is what my Bible says in regards to the WHOLE BOOK of Revelation:

Revelation 22:16

16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony [ALL OF REVELATION] FOR THE CHURCHES. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Edited July 21, 2005 by Sirsilius

[larryt]

Some church leaders teach that believing in an imminent pre-trib rapture will influence Christians to live holy lives. But the Scriptures teach, referring to the heavens and earth being destroyed by fire, "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?....Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless" (2 Pet. 3:11-14).

There has never been a time when so many Christians believed in an imminent pre-trib rapture and yet the twentieth-century church in America can be characterized by almost anything but holiness. (With all the filth of the television programs and cheap output of the press brought into our homes, divorce, worldly dress and sports activities, ad nauseam.) Most Christians in America live and look too much like worldlings; there is no contrast, therefore in many cases there is no conviction brought about by the Holy Spirit in the lives of the lost.

I think the two most important paragraphes in the whole article. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I will Amen this too.

LT

[halifaxchristian]

Sue,

thanks for you last post but I still have some questions. Why does Jesus' coming seem to be surrounded by 2 different sets of circumstances? We are told that there will be peace (people being given and taken in marriage, etc.) and yet also that there will be war at His coming. Without a pre-trib rapture taken into account, how do you harmonise these opposing descriptions??? Also, your "day and hour" answer was good, but a get a feel that it was missing something. When Jesus said this, I feel that He probably was not intending that one interpret it in such a literal fashion. I am compelled to believe that He was just trying to portray the information that His coming was wholly unpredicatable. Maybe I am wrong here, but the context appears this way to me. Notice that just after this, Jesus says that we know the "generation" (when Israel "the fig tree" becomes a nation again). A generation includes weeks and months and your arguement could be used in this instance as well for someone not holding your theory.

I don't mean to get nit-picky or stubborn, just trying to figure this thing out.

God bless.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Sue,

thanks for you last post but I still have some questions.  Why does Jesus' coming seem to be surrounded by 2 different sets of circumstances?  We are told that there will be peace (people being given and taken in marriage, etc.) and yet also that there will be war at His coming.  Without a pre-trib rapture taken into account, how do you harmonise these opposing descriptions???  Also, your "day and hour" answer was good, but a get a feel that it was missing something.  When Jesus said this, I feel that He probably was not intending that one interpret it in such a literal fashion.  I am compelled to believe that He was just trying to portray the information that His coming was wholly unpredicatable.  Maybe I am wrong here, but the context appears this way to me.  Notice that just after this, Jesus says that we know the "generation" (when Israel "the fig tree" becomes a nation again).  A generation includes weeks and months and your arguement could be used in this instance as well for someone not holding your theory.

I don't mean to get nit-picky or stubborn, just trying to figure this thing out.

God bless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, but I am sick right now and I can not take in anything past very elementary at this moment. I have a virus and strep throat and my head is very foggy and dizzy, and I'm just not coherant enough to grasp this at this moment. I'll get back to you as soon as these antibiotics take effect and I have my brain back. Until then, you have my permission to keep going on without me.

[halifaxchristian]

Hope you get better soon my friend. God bless.