Salvation...Can it be lost???

[Joy in the Journey]

I didn't read thru all the other posts here, but I feel led to tell you about my personal experience in this area.

I was born and raised in the church.  I believed in God with all my heart.  I went to church, Bible studies, you name it.  In high school, my car had christian bumper stickers, even though it caused people to laugh at me and make fun of me.  When I got out in the world on my own, one thing led to another and I somehow came to the conclusion that there wasn't a god.  I don't remember the exact chain of events, but I remember something in my brain just seemed to "switch" and I truely believed there was no such thing as God.  I knew it with a surity in my heart I cannot explain.

Twenty years went by.  I moved out to the country.  After a few months of being surrounded by nature and personally wittnessing sunrise and sunset daily, I begain to wonder if there was something out there after all.  Around that time, a Jehovah's Wittness came to my door a couple of times and I consented to a Bible study. I became very suspcious when she kept telling me that the Bible was not meant to be read and understood by "regular" people.  I kept thinking why would God write a book that was supposed to be a guide for Christians, and it wasn't meant to be read??  So, in definance of my JW teacher,  I started reading the Bible, much to her consternation.  I compared the christian Bible with the JW bible, and it made me want to read more.  I read the christian Bible thru 4 times in 6 months.  Then, one day, I remember it clearly, I was walking down my 1/4 mile driveway to get the mail, and another "switch" happened in my brain and I realized there truly was a God.  I feel on my face and confessed my sins and praised His name for allowing me to see the truth.  I immediatly canceled my study with the JW because it was apparent to me then that their religion was a cult.

I always thought I was lost during those 20 years without God.  Was I?  I now realize that I was an infant in my faith as a youngster, but I did believe.  I also remember during the 20 years as an atheist that I had a hatred in my heart for Christians that I could not explain.  I remember attending church for a funeral one time during my "time away".  I burned with anger at what the minister was saying.  (He was talking about Jesus being raised from the dead.)  I remember thinking to myself, why am I angry?  Why should I even care what these people believe?  I thought I should feel sorry for them for believing such nonsense, not be angry!!

People have told me that I didn't have "real faith" in my youth.  I beg to differ.  I really did!  I was on milk, but I TRULY BELIEVED.  The "switch" I keep talking about is something I cannot explain.  I don't remember reasoning with myself or studying to disprove Christianity or anything, it just happened.  No one could have told me there was a God at that point without me laughing at them.  I feel my heart had to have been touched by God, so that my blindness would fall away, because I have no other explainantion for it.  I think I was so close minded about christianity during that time that Jesus himself could have come down from heaven and I still wouldn't have believed.  I would have thought he was an exterrestrial or hallucianation or something, but my heart was so hard I'm sure I would have dismissed it. 

So, what happened to me?  Was I saved, lost then saved?  Or was I saved even when I "went away" for awhile?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since during that time you were no longer a believer in God, my conclusion is that you were a Christian in your youth, that you then backslid and lost your salvation, and then like the prodigal son, came to your senses and got saved again.

I am sure that you will get a wide array of other opinions on this matter that differ from mine, but that is my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or- perhaps God allowed him to live so that he would eventually "come back" to Him thus preserving what was already His to begin with ? God knew he'd come back and therefore sustained his life knowing that. To me, that gives God all the glory for this man's salvation. Even if, in our eyes, he "fell away", God sees through eternity and knew that 20 years later this man would repent. Therefore, he was saved all along...our eternal life consists not of only the after-life, but it begins in THIS life- today is the day of salvation! ( John 3:36 )

God bless you,

Tim

Edited August 10, 2005 by Joy in the Journey

[sail2awe]

do you people, some, not all, realize that you are condemning God's children to death and judging them to life based upon what they do or fail to do?

Salvation is foundational. This is disheartening for me to read, and in such consistancy. Denying the author and finisher of our faith is in control of the very Salvation of God, which is His redemptive plan. Astonishing for Christians. What control you must have, the very eternal life in Christ is in your control, and you can judge who is and is not going to receive of His. I am blown away.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again

the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

[apothanein kerdos]

Sail, you need to study the history of it really. The belief that one can render up their salvation by sinning essentially comes from paganized beliefs that seeped into Christianity. Early Christian writings don't give off the idea we can give up our salvation, but later ones do because by that time corruption had began to seep into the doctrines of the church.

Let's fact it, when these people must face an alternative interpretation or Greek or anything that runs contrary to what they believe and they can't answer it, they attack the person and not the ideas. Burtero is a perfect example of that. Note that he never once attacked the ideas I had, but quickly tried to question what I know and how I know it.

[Joy in the Journey]

Sail, you need to study the history of it really. The belief that one can render up their salvation by sinning essentially comes from paganized beliefs that seeped into Christianity. Early Christian writings don't give off the idea we can give up our salvation, but later ones do because by that time corruption had began to seep into the doctrines of the church.

Let's fact it, when these people must face an alternative interpretation or Greek or anything that runs contrary to what they believe and they can't answer it, they attack the person and not the ideas. Burtero is a perfect example of that. Note that he never once attacked the ideas I had, but quickly tried to question what I know and how I know it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure you read him right Super Jew ? I was under the impression that Sail is OSAS

[apothanein kerdos]

Sail, you need to study the history of it really. The belief that one can render up their salvation by sinning essentially comes from paganized beliefs that seeped into Christianity. Early Christian writings don't give off the idea we can give up our salvation, but later ones do because by that time corruption had began to seep into the doctrines of the church.

Let's fact it, when these people must face an alternative interpretation or Greek or anything that runs contrary to what they believe and they can't answer it, they attack the person and not the ideas. Burtero is a perfect example of that. Note that he never once attacked the ideas I had, but quickly tried to question what I know and how I know it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure you read him right Super Jew ? I was under the impression that Sail is OSAS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was speaking to his frustration concerning people who don't believe in OSAS. That while it can be frustrating, studying the history of it somehow explains the why behind people who deny God's grace.

[Joy in the Journey]

Sail, you need to study the history of it really. The belief that one can render up their salvation by sinning essentially comes from paganized beliefs that seeped into Christianity. Early Christian writings don't give off the idea we can give up our salvation, but later ones do because by that time corruption had began to seep into the doctrines of the church.

Let's fact it, when these people must face an alternative interpretation or Greek or anything that runs contrary to what they believe and they can't answer it, they attack the person and not the ideas. Burtero is a perfect example of that. Note that he never once attacked the ideas I had, but quickly tried to question what I know and how I know it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure you read him right Super Jew ? I was under the impression that Sail is OSAS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was speaking to his frustration concerning people who don't believe in OSAS. That while it can be frustrating, studying the history of it somehow explains the why behind people who deny God's grace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see; I'm SO sorry- I misread what you said

[apothanein kerdos]

Don't worry about it Tim

Sail, you need to study the history of it really. The belief that one can render up their salvation by sinning essentially comes from paganized beliefs that seeped into Christianity. Early Christian writings don't give off the idea we can give up our salvation, but later ones do because by that time corruption had began to seep into the doctrines of the church.

Let's fact it, when these people must face an alternative interpretation or Greek or anything that runs contrary to what they believe and they can't answer it, they attack the person and not the ideas. Burtero is a perfect example of that. Note that he never once attacked the ideas I had, but quickly tried to question what I know and how I know it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super Jew, I don't know what you've been reading. I have constantly attacked the ideas you had. I have even done so argument by argument.

Also, you are just as guilty of attacking those you disagree with as anyone else. Even here, you try to demonize those that disagree with you by comparing them to pagans. You have even made comparisons to cult religions. Then you try to show your superiority to others through the fact you know Greek, like that is supposed to prove what you say is true. In addition, what do early Christian writers have to do with anything? Early Christian writers were mere men with their own flawed ideas. What they say is not necessarily gospel truth. If it were, it should be included in the cannon of the Bible, and it is not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? You mean you didn't say, "you're wrong" and just leave it at that when I posted that long post of mine?

I'm not trying to demonize you at all, I'm merely speaking fact. False religions believe you can lose your salvation, you believe we can lose our salvation. Pagans brought this belief into Christianity, you continue it. THat's not demonizing you, that's merely stating the facts.

Stating I know Greek is not a superiority issue but an issue of who is more accurate in their translation. You, for some reason, have tried to make it a superiority issue. I have consistently told you that's it about accuracy in translation.

I'm also not saying that early Christian writers were infallible, for they did have their flaws. They often came out of what were known to be corrupt churches. I am merely showing that so many of you claim, "OSAS didn't come about until Calvin" that you're historically wrong. It was established from the beginning and later crushed by Roman Catholic doctrine. Doesn't mean it is right but it does show it's been here since the beginning.

[apothanein kerdos]

Don't worry about it, I'm already too busy for anythin else. Even my response to the Catholic post by Kansasdad and my writing of my defense for eternal security have had to be halted. There is no way I could respond to it in a timely manner, however if you want to I would be able to get to it at some point.

[apothanein kerdos]

I posted this in another thread, but it's something Bono said that sums up what I'm talking about when I say you're taking on a belief of false religions:

The interviewer, Mr. Assayas, begins by asking Bono, Doesn't he think "appalling things" happen when people become religious? Bono counters, "It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the Universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma."

The interviewer asks, What's that? "At the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics

[apothanein kerdos]

I posted this in another thread, but it's something Bono said that sums up what I'm talking about when I say you're taking on a belief of false religions:

The interviewer, Mr. Assayas, begins by asking Bono, Doesn't he think "appalling things" happen when people become religious? Bono counters, "It's a mind-blowing concept that the God who created the Universe might be looking for company, a real relationship with people, but the thing that keeps me on my knees is the difference between Grace and Karma."

The interviewer asks, What's that? "At the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics