How Demons are explaining the rapture to the world.

[Marilyn C]

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

Sure pastor, Jesus did say, when you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near. I agree with you that He also said He did not know day or the hour 2000 years ago (but He actually did not say no one would ever know) and I agree with you that we can know the season.

After all, He was responding to a question when, and what the sign would be, so yeah, we are to watch, then look up when we observe certain things.

What things though? Wars disturbances, earthquakes, plagues, famines and great signs from heaven.

But, BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS (Luke 21:12) persecution. Some of you will be put to death! You will be hated by all, because of My name! Yet no a hair of you head will perish.

That is interesting! Some of you will die, but not a hair will perish!

By your endurance, you will gain your lives.

Now, it seems to me that if one is in the Rapture, there is nothing to endure. That is of course, unless the rapture is after all of these things.

As you said, look up, for your redemption is drawing near! Let's look at that in it's context, and not isolate it as you did:

  25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory. 28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

These things that are signs, are things that people would see, if they went through the tribulation. Why would you look for signs of things you won't be here for? Let me know, when you see these things - the signs in the sun, moon and stars! Things so scary, that men are fainting from the fear! Then what? They will see the Son of Man coming!

When you see these things, you redemption is drawing near, but that is a lot of bad stuff to witness, before it is near.

32“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. 

ALL these things, not some of them.

36“But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Does one need to pray to have the strength flee the rapture? No, of course not, one needs strength to flee the terrible things coming before Jesus returns!

You said "we await the rapture, because it can happen at anytime", yet, you have no verse that says that, in fact, Jesus just gave a whole list of things, that are going to occur! That is what the context of what you were quoting says, watch for these things.

Now, the premise of this video, is that there will need to be some plausible explanation, for why all these Christians went missing. I get what you are saying sir, but, there is another plausible explanation that harmonizes with scripture perfectly. What it the tribulation were to come, and all the Christians we still here? Then there are no millions of missing people. what could happen then, is that it would be like it was in the days of Noah, were people were caught off guard, not knowing what was coming, until the flood came, and took Noah and his family away, that is how it will be when the Son of man comes.

It will be like Paul said also, that the Day of the Lord, well come like a thief in the night:

But you, brothers, are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you like a thief. 1 Thess 5:4

If you just were to stick with scripture, you do not have to invent ideas like and any moment rapture or fancy concocted theories about where all the Christians went?

Stick with the Bible, and it takes only moments to understand, instead of 43 minutes to explain how it could happen some other way. Just a thought!

It is quite interesting, that you would would quote demon channelers as sources of information, that is always going to be trustworthy! NOT!

Anyway, no need to belabor these points, stick with the Bible, and you'll be fine.

Sure pastor, Jesus did say, when you see these things, look up for your redemption draws near. I agree with you that He also said He did not know day or the hour 2000 years ago (but He actually did not say no one would ever know) and I agree with you that we can know the season.

After all, He was responding to a question when, and what the sign would be, so yeah, we are to watch, then look up when we observe certain things.

What things though? Wars disturbances, earthquakes, plagues, famines and great signs from heaven.

But, BEFORE ALL THESE THINGS (Luke 21:12) persecution. Some of you will be put to death! You will be hated by all, because of My name! Yet no a hair of you head will perish.

That is interesting! Some of you will die, but not a hair will perish!

By your endurance, you will gain your lives.

Now, it seems to me that if one is in the Rapture, there is nothing to endure. That is of course, unless the rapture is after all of these things.

As you said, look up, for your redemption is drawing near! Let's look at that in it's context, and not isolate it as you did:

  25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory. 28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

These things that are signs, are things that people would see, if they went through the tribulation. Why would you look for signs of things you won't be here for? Let me know, when you see these things - the signs in the sun, moon and stars! Things so scary, that men are fainting from the fear! Then what? They will see the Son of Man coming!

When you see these things, you redemption is drawing near, but that is a lot of bad stuff to witness, before it is near.

32“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. 

ALL these things, not some of them.

36“But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Does one need to pray to have the strength flee the rapture? No, of course not, one needs strength to flee the terrible things coming before Jesus returns!

You said "we await the rapture, because it can happen at anytime", yet, you have no verse that says that, in fact, Jesus just gave a whole list of things, that are going to occur! That is what the context of what you were quoting says, watch for these things.

Now, the premise of this video, is that there will need to be some plausible explanation, for why all these Christians went missing. I get what you are saying sir, but, there is another plausible explanation that harmonizes with scripture perfectly. What it the tribulation were to come, and all the Christians we still here? Then there are no millions of missing people. what could happen then, is that it would be like it was in the days of Noah, were people were caught off guard, not knowing what was coming, until the flood came, and took Noah and his family away, that is how it will be when the Son of man comes.

It will be like Paul said also, that the Day of the Lord, well come like a thief in the night:

But you, brothers, are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you like a thief. 1 Thess 5:4

If you just were to stick with scripture, you do not have to invent ideas like and any moment rapture or fancy concocted theories about where all the Christians went?

Stick with the Bible, and it takes only moments to understand, instead of 43 minutes to explain how it could happen some other way. Just a thought!

It is quite interesting, that you would would quote demon channelers as sources of information, that is always going to be trustworthy! NOT!

Anyway, no need to belabor these points, stick with the Bible, and you'll be fine.

[Marilyn C]

Omegaman,

It seems you are belabouring the point.

[Omegaman 3.0]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Omegaman,

It seems you are belabouring the point.

No more that usual, in fact, I was self restraining! At least I spent the time to watch it, normally a video that long, I would pass on. However, I thought it would not be too harmful for people to watch, but after spending all that time to watch it, I don't feel too bad spending time to comment on it!

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

No more that usual, in fact, I was self restraining! At least I spent the time to watch it, normally a video that long, I would pass on. However, I thought it would not be too harmful for people to watch, but after spending all that time to watch it, I don't feel too bad spending time to comment on it!

Hi Omegaman,

Yes it was a long video, I agree. And yes it is important to comment in detail as to what we believe and so share with others, as you have done. I just saw some scriptures you repeated and thought you were going on a bit.

Now that the topic has been approached I would ask you `Why do you quote the Lord speaking to the people of Israel and what He was telling them about their future as though it is ours?` The Body of Christ was not revealed by the Lord on earth, only when He went to the Father and sent the Holy Spirit did the revelation become known by the Apostle Paul.

It is important for us to know what will happen to the nations and Israel, but we are told -

` brethren you are NOT in darkness that this day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light...` (1 Thess. 5: 4 & 5) 

` exhorting one another, and so much the more AS YOU SEE the day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

[Omegaman 3.0]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

I just saw some scriptures you repeated and thought you were going on a bit.

Now that the topic has been approached I would ask you `Why do you quote the Lord speaking to the people of Israel and what He was telling them about their future as though it is ours?`

I repeated scriptures, because they became relevant to some point I was making at the time, I think. You need to realize, that this was not a laboriously thought out response, it was spontaneous, and at a time when I should have been asleep hours earlier, after already not having much sleep for days, so it is probably a bit, um . . .  well, not the sharpest my senile old mine can manage anyway.

As to why quote those particular passages? I was working around what the pastor had said, he brought up the Luke thing, about looking up, your redemption is drawing near. What he quoted, was the basis of my response. I would not be making my case from that passage, I was just responding to what I saw as a shortcoming of how he misused it.

As to the application of the passage to us . . .  I would say that in the Olivet Discourse, what that Luke passage repeats, there are a few reasons to apply, and not to apply these things.

The context looks at a future (for them) of the destruction of the temple. It talks about fleeing Judea, Praying that in not be on a sabbath, etc. Very Judeo-centric things mostly. His audience members were Jews, etc.

However, the Jews He was addressing, were also the first members of His church, or in terms you prefer, the body of Christ! These men were told to go into all the world (including the Gentiles) and tell them everything He told them to do. Well He told them to watch, and He told them to flee, etc. 

Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles also spoke of the evil one to come. He spoke of angels, and shouts, and trumpets etc. almost as though it could have been lifted from this very discourse. The Thessalonians were were gentile Christian, should Paul not have applied these things to them? He also told them about how Christians would be in the Rapture, and in the resurrection when Jesus returns, and that the rapture or the living, would happen after the resurrection of the dead, John, in Revelation, tells us that the resurrection takes place, after Christians are martyred in the tribulation. Ergo, the rapture is also after the tribulation, f words mean anything!

Yes the verses I used, were not the best to dismantle the pre-trib rapture theory, but that was not the subject I was addressing, other than it incidentally addresses some shortcomings of the video. There are other places, more interesting that the video area, to discuss these things, however, and they ARE discussed. I just have a hard time, passing up at least some rebuttal, when someone goes off on a tangent of their pet theory, and misuses scripture to do so.

If he had just wanted to tell people about his awareness of demon inspired lies and not tried to legitimize it with scripture, that would be a different thing, but then, it would have had no place in this forum. The use of scripture, makes it worth discussing, the misused of it, makes it worth rebutting. At least, that is my opinion!

I am not sure his title, "The World's Explanation About the Rapture" is the best. Perhaps he meant "The Worst Explanation About the Rapture"!

 

[Marilyn C]

44 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

 

However, the Jew He was addressing, were also the first members of His church, or in terms you prefer, the body of Christ! These men were told to go into all the world, including the gentile, and tell them everything He told them to do. Well He told them to watch, and He told them to flee, etc. 

 

 

Hi Omegaman,

As usual you have good things to say and things I would like to discuss.  

Now you say the Jews the Lord was addressing were also the first members of His Church. Did you realise that the 12 disciples/apostles are NOT in the church the Body of Christ. They are in Christ and were told they would rule over the 12 tribes of Israel.

Jesus told them to go teach others everything He told them. And the Lord never told them about the Body of Christ, for that was a later revelation given to the apostle Paul. Also remember that Peter had a hard time of going to the Gentiles, until the Holy Spirit gave him that vision. From then when gentiles became believers Peter again shows his non understanding of the Body, and tries to make the gentiles act as Jews. (Gal. 2: 11 - 15)

The 12 disciples only preached Jesus as Lord and Christ. (Acts 2: 36) It was Paul who taught the WHOLE COUNSEL of God to the believers concerning the Body of Christ, & the catching away of the mture Body to its eternal setting in the highest heaven.  (Acts 20: 27,  Eph. 1: 23,  1 Thess. 4: 17,  Rev. 3: 21) 

Hope you get some better sleep now. Marilyn.

[Omegaman 3.0]

OK, Marilyn. I will leave it to others who read this, to decide whether the first (in Christ) disciples are the beginning of the church or not. Thanks for wishing me better sleep, take care!