Mary Was Just A Woman

[Guest ChristinaJMJ]

Zayit no one is saying anything contrary to that.

Praise Jesus! woot!

[Guest Zayit]

What about the "seven spirits" of Rev 1:4 then? If they are angels, as many commentators believe, they haven't even been saved, let alone granted the status of Apostle. Yet they, too, apparently are channels of grace. In sacramental understanding, inanimate objects are channels of grace. This shouldn't be a controversial concept at all, as far as I'm concerned.

In the synogogue the one that is today called the chazan ( who is the overseer of the prayers) is was what is referred to here as an angel, not a spirit being.

[Guest Zayit]

Zayit    no one is saying anything contrary to that.

Praise Jesus! woot!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you did at 6:03pm tonight. This was part of your post.

967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity

[Guest ChristinaJMJ]

Zayit

Edited July 22, 2005 by ChristinaJMJ

[nebula]

Biblical Evidence: John 19:26-27, Revelation 12, and the Daughter of Zion: Mary as Spiritual Mother

John 19:26-27 . . . he said to his mother, "Woman, behold your son!" Then he said to the disciple, "Behold your mother!" . . .

First of all - is that your own writing or another's?

Because it it's another's, you need to reference the source - otherwise, it looks like your own writing, and that's called plagiarism.

Second - you cannot divorce the events of Scripture from the culture in which they came.

Jesus (Yeshua) was the firstborn son. That made it his responsibility to make sure his mother was cared for in her widowhood.

When the firstborn son could not longer fulfill his role, it was necessary for him to give this task to someone else.

Maybe Zayit or Shiloh can explain this better?

But Yeshua wasn't giving Miriam over to be "the Mother of the Church" - he was giving the responsibility of the "firstborn care" of his mother to one of His close disciples in His place.

Again - notice this passage:

Luke 11:27 - 27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!"

How did Jesus respond to that statment?

28 But He said, "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

If what you are saying is so true - why would Jesus have responded this way?

Does it sound to you like Jesus is "exalting Mary as the Queen of Heaven"?

[Guest shiloh357]

Nebula is absolutely correct. In those days, and even today, the eldest son of the family was responsible for making sure that his mother and younger siblings were taken care of, in the event that the father died.

Jesus was following Jewish custom, in making sure that someone was there to look after His mother. Even if the younger siblings were old enough to do so, it was still the eldest son's responsibility to look after his mother. It would have been expected that Jesus would have spent a lot of time back in Nazareth looking after Miriam. Jesus was an itinerate Rabbi. He would have had the time to work in the carpenter shop when He was not out teaching. Many of the Rabbis of ancient Israel did not make a living from being a Rabbi. They had regular jobs. Hillel was a woodcutter, and Shammai was carpenter. Paul if you recall, was a tent maker. It is not far fetched at all to see Jesus working for a season or so in His shop to support his mother before leaving on another mission. The disciples as well would have had to be gainfully employed to support their wives and parents and siblings left at home, provided that the disciples were the eldest of their families. It was considered meritorious to be gainfully employed.

I say all of that to say that Jesus was, as Neb said, trying to do what was right by His mother. He was making sure that someone was able to take care of His mother in his stead.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I am moving this thread to Doctrinal forum where it belongs.

What is being promoted here is Marian Theology and it is unique to the RCC.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest Zayit]

May I add that if you understand what Shiloh wrote above it may help you to understand a subject close to Yeshua's heart, that of caring for the widows.

In Luke 7 we see this story:

11 The next day Yeshua, accompanied by his talmidim and a large crowd, went to a town called Na`im. 12 As he approached the town gate, a dead man was being carried out for burial. His mother was a widow, this had been her only son, and a sizeable crowd from the town was with her. 13 When the Lord saw her, he felt compassion for her and said to her, "Don't cry." 14 Then he came close and touched the coffin, and the pallbearers halted. He said, "Young man, I say to you: get up!" 15 The dead man sat up and began to speak, and Yeshua gave him to his mother. 16 They were all filled with awe and gave glory to God, saying, "A great prophet has appeared among us," and, "God has come to help his people."

We see Yeshua is full of compassion when he sees this widow, now having lost her son, and I think he was thinking of the days to come when his own Mother Miriam would be in the same position as this woman, this is why his compassion was great for her, but also we see him upset with the Sanhedrin for not taking care of the widows as they should, being very hypocritical in their treatment of them.

I believe that Yeshua was all knowing and he knew the lifespan alloted to each talmidim ( apostle) and that John would have the longest life and I believe John was the youngest which gave him plenty of time to take care of Miriam and to do the L-RD's bussiness on earth as well. I don't believe that Yeshua's brothers at this time believed who he was, after all he was their brother. Just like he wasn't accepted in the town of Nazareth because it was his hometown, so also he wasn't fully accepted as the Messiah to his brothers. We know that later at least one, Ya'akov ( Jacob or James) did believe after the resurrection for he was the head of the Jerusalem Beit Din.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I would also like to add this.

Worthy Statement of Faith;

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit -- the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.

We believe in the Messiah, Jesus, God's only begotten son, God come in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified, died and buried. On the third day, He rose and ascended into heaven. Now He is seated at the right hand of the Father and He will return to judge both the living and the dead and reign for evermore.

We believe all mankind are sinful and are therefore subject to God

[Guest ChristinaJMJ]

First of all - is that your own writing or another's?

Because it it's another's, you need to reference the source - otherwise, it looks like your own writing, and that's called plagiarism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whelp, looks like the mods don't like when Catholics link to Catholic websites. I guess it's scary or something. It's sad tho, cuz no one here will ever come to know the full Truth that Jesus Christ teaches in the Gospels.

Then his mother and brothers came to him but were unable to join him because of the crowd. He was told, "Your mother and your brothers are standing outside and they wish to see you." He said to them in reply, "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and act on it.

(Luke 8:19-21)

While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts that nursed you." He replied, "Rather, blessed are those that hear the word of God and observe it."

(Luke 11 27-28)

It is important to remember that the Blessed Virgin is not so worthy of our love and veneration merely because she is the Mother of God. It would be hard for us to emulate her if her holiness eminated solely from the fact of her privileged position as the Mother of the Saviour.

It is clear that in Jesus' time, many wished to accord His Mother special treatment or honour by virtue only of the fact that she was His Mother. Jesus refused to let His mother, his first and most perfect disciple, be reduced to a holy woman by virtue of her biological relationship with Christ. No rather, he pointed out again and again that the Mother of God is holy and worthy of veneration and emulation precisely because she "hears the word of God and acts on it". Jesus does not want a biological relationship with us, He wants us to hear the word of God and observe it, to be true disciples, as Mary was and is. (edit)

Edited July 22, 2005 by Dr. Luke