vic66 Posted June 23, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 200 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) On 6/21/2020 at 5:42 PM, LonerAndy said: I can't watch over my daughter all the time BUT IF she live's right then God will help. Secondly governments,law enforcement are ordained of God as another way you can call for help if needed. https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/nobody-showed-up-911-calls-bring-no-response-after-break-auto-shop-near-capitol-hill-protest-zone/O42CQ6VUXVDBHIB3334DI7LPV4/ This man called police 11 times. No police showed up. So I'll ask again. Ok, so your daughter is being raped and strangled by a man. If you don't shoot him, then your daughter suffers a horrific and miserable death. Are you saying you would just.... pray for him, while he's raping your daughter? While he is slowly strangling the life out of her? Does "loving your enemy" mean allowing evil and injustice on the Earth? Is that what you believe? God is well able, Jesus statement lo I will be with you always even to the end of the world. Now if God is For you writer/song writer states what you got the worry about. Who is greatest the rapist and murder or God! Whom should I trust more glock or sig pistols or Christ? Christ words are all power has been given unto me both in heaven and on earth. Christ said again "I send you forth as lambs in the mist of wolves" Be as wise as a serpent yet as harmless as a dove. Rulers are not a terror on to good works Call for help if needed Edited June 23, 2020 by vic66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic66 Posted June 23, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 200 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said: The Theban Legion (also known as the Martyrs of Agaunum) figures in Christian hagiography as an entire Roman legion — of "six thousand six hundred and sixty-six men" — who had converted en masse to Christianity and were martyred together.. The Forty Martyrs of Sebaste or the Holy Forty (Ancient/Katharevousa Greek Ἅγιοι Τεσσεράκοντα; Demotic: Άγιοι Σαράντα) were a group of Roman soldiers in the Legio XII Fulminata (Armed with Lightning) whose martyrdom in 320 for the Christian faith is recounted in traditional martyrologies. https://earlychurchhistory.org/military/christian-soldiers-in-the-ancient-roman-army/ Christians in Roman Army was common. https://gatesofnineveh.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/christians-in-the-roman-army-countering-the-pacifist-narrative/ https://gatesofnineveh.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/christians-in-the-roman-army-countering-the-pacifist-narrative/ Christians and the Roman Army A.D. 173-337 John Helgeland Church History Vol. 43, No. 2 (Jun., 1974), pp. 149-163+200 Published by: Cambridge University Press on behalf of the American Society of Church History DOI: 10.2307/3163949 https://www.jstor.org/stable/3163949 Page Count: 16 They were misguided and mislead The gospel of christ and the apostles take precedence over misguided Roman soldier's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 23, 2020 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 1:52 PM, vic66 said: In the light of Jesus teaching on the summon on the mount .be as the Father in heaven over coming evil with good, praying for your enemies, causing the rain to fall of the just and the unjust Blessed are the merciful Blessed are the pure in heart Blessed are the peace makers Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake. But I say unto to you love your enemies,bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. You can't shoot your enemy dead and yet pray for him or his family sincerely and effectively afterwards The apostle taught that vengeance belongs to the Lord therefore we should not take revenge but leave the final judgement to God. Matthew 5 KJV For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? Do not even the publican so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your heavenly Father which is in heaven is perfect I Served In The U.S. Navy And I Am Thankful For The Chance To Do So Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. Romans 13:5-7 My Tax Dollors Help Pay For The Police And I Am Thankful For The Chance To Do So give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. 1 Thessalonians 5:18 Thank You LORD Jesus~! ~ Love, Joe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic66 Posted June 23, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 200 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) source:https://friktech.com/rel/war.htm (learning about non violence and God)added by vic66 THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 'You have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on Eagle's wings and brought you to myself. Now, therefore, if you indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to me above all the earth; for all the earth is mine." (Exodus 19:3-5) GOD -- THE RULER OF EARTHLY AND HEAVENLY KINGDOMS There is no subject that inspires the hearer of the Biblical writings more than God's sovereignty over human nations. Sometimes, as we read and study the scriptures, we may be tempted to forget that the same God is alive and in control of modern kingdoms that was living and working among the nations of the Bible. "Every good and perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning" (James 1:17). The point that James makes is well taken. God suffers no variations. He is not hot one day and cold the next! Unlike humanity, He never changes his opinion about matters from one day to the next or from one generation to another. Consequently, it would be silly to think that God was in control of nations and kingdoms in Biblical times but not in our own. The scripture introducing this chapter is remarkable in its breadth. After judging the Egyptians and their gods, Yahweh gathered the children of Israel around the mountain of Horeb. He reminded them of several things. Foremost, that He had personally and by Himself judged their oppressors and emancipated them from Egyptian slavery. Thus the figure "on eagle's wings". They were in no way responsible for their freedom. They had not rebelled against and overpowered the Egyptians. On the contrary, they continued to grumble in unbelief even after God had led them out of Egypt and "parked" them in front of the Red Sea. They had been enslaved by the premier power of the world at that time. God had raised the Egyptians to the pinnacle of human might. His purpose was to demonstrate HIS sovereignty over the world and to send a message to the surrounding kingdoms that Israel eventually supplanted. Exodus 9:13-16, says this about the all pervasive reach and scope of God's power: Then the Lord said to Moses, Rise early in the morning and stand before Pharaoh, and tell him, 'Thus says Yahweh God of the Hebrews: Let My people go, that they may serve Me, for at this time I will send all My plagues to your very heart, and on your servants and on your people, that you may know that there is none like Me in all the earth, Now if I had stretched out My hand and struck you and your people with pestilence, then you would have been cut off from the earth. But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth. God demonstrated His power upon the mighty Egyptians and their arrogant ruler NOT on an obscure, third rate power of the day. He intended that the world understand that the "game" was HIS and nations existed solely by His grace and for His pleasure and purpose. Therefore, when God informed Israel that he had "borne them on eagle's wings" the figure was certainly relevant. The children of Israel were special only in that God had chosen them. They were not powerful in war. They were not righteous and godly. They were special only in the sense that God was going to use them to accomplish His design and purposes. This was a lesson that they would soon forget. This was a lesson that God would continually remind them through various judgments and through the preaching of the prophets. In the midst of their apostasy, Yahweh uses a graphic description in Ezekiel 16:2-7, to bring them back to reality. Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, and say, "Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem: Your birth and your nativity are from the land of Canaan and your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. As for your nativity on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor swathed in swaddling cloths. No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born. And when I passed by you I saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, Live! Yes, I said to you in your blood, Live! I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful...." The rest of the chapter comments on Israel's condition after their adoption and glorification by Yahweh. Typically, in the midst of this "national beauty" they had forgotten that they existed only by the providence of God. They had played the whore and transgressed the covenant from which their blessings flowed. God was now going to remove them from the land for the same abominations that he had purged the former inhabitants. Speaking in Leviticus 18:26-28, God had said this concerning the land, You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments...(for all these abominations the men of the land have done who were before you, and thus the land is defiled), lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you. In comparing the statements that God made to Egypt and Israel, we can understand the full import of God's claim, "for all the earth is mine"! God was the supreme sovereign over all nations. The Psalmist put this claim another way, simply declaring for all to hear, "He is the governor of all the nations" (Psalm 22:28). The practical application to modern day America can be made from these plain teachings concerning the sovereignty of God. America does not exist because of some inherent "goodness" of its people. Like Egypt of old, Israel, and the other nations of the Bible record, America exists by the grace of God. God planted her. God matured her. God blessed her and made her prosper. If God judged Israel and the other nations for sinful behavior, then God will judge America for the same. Christian Americans have the tendency to look at world events and political questions from an American, humanistic perspective rather than from a spiritual and "God viewed" outlook. We have a tendency to peer through the prejudicial glasses of the "red, white, and blue" rather than through the Biblical microscope of God's writings. My father used to say that God was on our (America's) side. Others have said, "if it wasn't for America, the allies would have lost World War II." The author will not deny that God used America to defeat Axis powers and judge them accordingly. You will notice, however, that much judgment was accomplished upon the allies before the United States entered the war. Can we deny that God raised up Germany, Japan, and Italy as well as the other world powers? I will expand upon this later in this chapter. One thing is for certain, statements like my father's definitely "minimize" the rule of God in the affairs of nations and offer a perverted view of God's sovereignty. The author denies the scriptural truthfulness of the above view. God is on the side of Christians and He's for the salvation of the world! All the nations belong to him! He loves America no more than any other country. God has always sent his blessings "on the evil and the good" (Matthew 5:45). We can all agree that America has been extraordinarily blessed without reaching the erroneous conclusion that our national goals have in some way been sanctioned by God. If the Christian can grasp the universal nature of God's reign and merge this with the understanding of God's desire that "all men be saved", it should enable us to answer the central question of this thesis. Should the Christian bear "carnal" arms with the intent of inflicting injury and death upon another human being for which Jesus also died in the defense and at the bequest of any country -- even one's own? In continuing the theme of God's sovereignty, we must also realize that God is not only the planter of nations but also the One who enthrones the "powers that be". He takes a much more personal part in national schemes and politics than most would ever imagine. Daniel states plainly that God is ruler over time and kings. Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. And He changes the times and the seasons, He removes kings and raises up kings... This decision is by the decree of the watchers, and the sentence by the word of the holy ones, in order that the living my know that the Most High rules in the kingdoms of men, and gives it to whomever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men. Notice that verse 21, says that God sets up kings and removes them. What an extraordinary claim. He had told Pharaoh that "for this very purpose I raised you up" (Exodus 9:16). We also have similar statements throughout the book of Judges that God raised up judges. Throughout the period of the kings in the Old Testament, God makes several claims to having raised up kings. Now in Daniel, a sweeping statement is made that all the "powers" are raised up by Him. In the New Testament, this theme of sovereignty is continued in Romans 13:1: "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." I've heard people say that God may raise up kings but we elect our presidents. This has been the common failure of human pride and reasoning from the beginning. This was Pharaoh's attitude. He said to Moses, "Who is Yahweh that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I do not know Yahweh, nor will I let Israel go" (Exodus 5:2)? Truthfully, Pharaoh had a much greater excuse to ask such a question than we. He spoke before all the miraculous signs God gave in answer to his arrogant question. Nebuchadnezzar, the first and mightiest king of the Neo-Babylonian Empire (circa 605-539 BC), thought the great ancient city of Babylon was built due to his personal attributes. Before God afflicted him with the rare disease of boanthropy, Nebuchadnezzar exclaimed, "Is not this the great Babylon, that I have built for a royal dwelling by my mighty power and for the honor of my majesty" (Daniel 4:30)? Nebuchadnezzar, even with all his arrogance, had a better excuse to doubt the sovereignty of God than we. WE have Biblical history to examine at our convenience. Still we are plagued with unbelief and national pride! Where is our faith? We are without excuse! "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope" (Romans 15:4). Why do we have trouble believing that God raised up an obscure country lawyer (Abraham Lincoln) to the highest office in the land? Why do we doubt that God raised a nameless housewife (Corazon Aquino) to be president of the Philippines? When did God abdicate the throne of heaven and put world powers into human hands? This subject has immense implications when dealing with the question of "carnal" warfare. If God raises up ALL the "powers that be", the Christian is forced to "intellectually" divorce himself from his nationalism and consider the universal picture. We must, upon our conversion, consider this extended world we're called to influence. "Our citizenship is in heaven" (Philippians 3:20). Our "field" is the nations. Our affections are to be Christ's affections (Philippians 2:5). Christ's enemies are to become our foes. More on this subject later. YAHWEH -- A GOD OF WAR "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, with a spear, and with a javelin. But I come to you in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you...That all the earth will know that there is a God in Israel. Then all this assembly shall know that the Lord does not save with sword and spear; for the battle is the Lord's and He will deliver you into our hands'" (1 Samuel 17:45-47). The above scripture is one of the most profound statements in the Bible concerning "carnal" warfare. In almost every generation, and in almost every civilized society, people have dwelt in the midst of enemies. Belligerents who wanted what others possessed. Nations that coveted some portion of the life style and property of their neighbors. Because of this, nations have thought it necessary to maintain armies for their defense or offense depending upon their national aims. One of the most remarkable truths and yet the most difficult to believe is that our God is also the ultimate controller of armies and battles. David, in the above scripture makes the simple statement that the battle's outcome is not determined on the size and the quality of arms but by Yahweh God! We can opine that America's presence in World War II was essential to victory but the scriptures do not bear this out. "The horse is prepared for the day of battle, but deliverance is of the Lord" (Proverbs 21:31). If the prophet had lived in the twentieth century he might have substituted "tank" or "F-15" for horse, but it would not have changed the import. Aren't we the height of arrogance to think that humans are the cause of military victory? In the Old Testament, it is revealed to us that the nations are God's weapons to wield as He works His purposes. This plain truth may upset us, but as the old preacher said, "This is the Lord's universe and we live in it by His pleasure." It's comforting to know that God almighty agrees with this statement. Daniel 4:35 states, "He does His will in the armies of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand or say to Him, What have you done?" The Psalmist also straight forwardly claims, "Yahweh is a man of war, Yahweh is His name" (Exodus 15:3). Like mankind, who make and utilize instruments of war, God uses all His creation to accomplish His "war" aims. The weather, famine, pestilence, plagues, and ultimately the "sword" of countries. God's aim, though dealing out judgment upon the wicked, is also invariable linked with redemption. "...For when your judgments are upon the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9). In Isaiah 10:5ff, the use of a nation as a tool for war is illustrated: Woe to Assyria, the rod of My anger and the staff in whose hand is My indignation. I will send him against an ungodly nation, and against the people of My wrath I will give him charge, To seize the spoil, to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the street. Yet he does not mean so, nor does his heart think so; but it is in his heart to destroy and cut off not a few nations. Check out the description. The Assyrian nation was going to be used for destroying a nation targeted by God. We find that this is Jerusalem (verse 12). The Assyrian nation is referred to God's "rod", His "staff", His "street trodder". What makes this such a remarkable description, however, is that the Assyrians never had an inkling that they were serving God in this matter. They were just trying to fulfill their own national war aims. And, like Nebuchadnezzar who came after them and Pharaoh who had preceded them, the Assyrians assumed they had reached this pinnacle of power independent of God. Listen to their boast as they crow about their many exploits: "By the strength of my hand I have done it, and by my wisdom, for I am prudent; Also I have removed the boundaries of the people, and have robbed their treasuries; So I have put down the inhabitants like a valiant man. My hand has found like a nest the riches of the people, and as one gathers eggs that are left, I have gathered all the earth; And there was no one who moved his wing, nor opened his mouth with even a peep" (Isaiah 10:13-14). The Assyrians were "overcome" with national pride. They were strong. They were wise. They never, ever considered that God was behind their rise to power. However, he not only calls them His "spanking stick" to punish Jerusalem, He tells them that He was the one that raised them to power. Listen to these words: Then Isaiah the son of Amoz sent to Hezekiah, saying, 'Thus says the Lord God of Israel, Because you have prayed to Me against Sennacherib king of Assyria...The virgin, the daughter of Zion, Has despised you, laughed you to scorn; ... Whom have you reproached and blasphemed?... Against the Holy One of Israel. By your servants you have reproached the Lord, and said, By the multitude of my chariots I have come up to the height of the mountains. Did you not hear long ago How I made it, From ancient times that I formed it? Now I have brought it to pass that you should be for crushing fortified cities into heaps of ruins" (Isaiah 37:22-26). Listen to how Yahweh puts them down! "You thought you were tough." "You thought you possessed power because of your great army." But long ago I ORDAINED IT. What a statement! Sometimes, Americans are no different. "Look what we have done," we say. "Look at this great country that we have built." Wouldn't God tell us the same thing that He told the Assyrians? Wouldn't God tell us the same thing He later told Nebuchadnezzar? Wouldn't God say the same thing that He told Pharaoh? Wouldn't God say to us, "long ago I ordained it." Well, God did just that! He told us by telling them! This Bible that we read and quote was never given to Pharaoh. It was never revealed to the Assyrians! It was written for OUR learning (Romans 15:4). The same God still rules!! The same God still uses all the weapons at his disposal. If not, why not? WHEN DID GOD step FROM HIS THRONE AND TURN WORLD AFFAIRS OVER TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? When it came to war, God even used a less "godly" nation to destroy one more "godly". This was Habakkuk's complaint. Listen to this grievous "moaning." Are You not from everlasting, O Lord my God, my Holy One? We shall not die. O Lord, you have appointed them for judgment; O Rock, you have marked them for correction. You are of purer eyes than to behold evil, and cannot look on wickedness. Why do you look on those who deal treacherously, and hold your tongue when the wicked devours one more righteous than he" (Habakkuk 1:12:13)? Habakkuk recognized that the Babylonians were more wicked that the Jews. Even though Israel deserved judgment, the "Chaldeans" deserved it more. Could not the same thing have been said about Hitler? Could this not have been said about Lenin? Could this not have been said about any number of countries that have risen and fallen since Biblical revelation ended? If not, why not? God eventually judged and destroyed Babylon for their wickedness. Not, however, before they served his purposes. God eventually destroyed Hitler's Germany but Not, I reiterate, before Hitler served His purposes. Regardless of human opinion, God's ways are always righteous. "Let God be true and every man a liar" (Romans 3:3). The knowledge that God uses war to bring about His purposes should open the Christian's eyes to new dimensions. The real enemy may be something completely different in God's eyes than the nation's eyes in which we "sojourn". The child of God should make sure that it is right in God's sight to bear "carnal" arms at the request of any country in order to inflict injury and death upon another human being for which Anointed Jesus also died. Edited June 23, 2020 by vic66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted June 24, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 67 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/05/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1971 Share Posted June 24, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 12:16 PM, BeauJangles said: Upping the font is considered shouting. I'd like to read some of these because they could be quality. Unfortunately for me they are a strain on my eyesight. I've got dyslexia and possible macular degeneration. It's too difficult for me to read them. I am sorry I will disagree. I am more than happy to make my font bigger and that has never been rude. Maybe I'm a dinosaur but I come from when the Internet started and I do know what is considered rude. Go with God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted June 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted June 24, 2020 5 hours ago, vic66 said: They were misguided and mislead The gospel of christ and the apostles take precedence over misguided Roman soldier's I sorry concerning the history of Christian Church that you do not know what you are talking about and here's why. " Unfortunately, none of the pacifist authors who have tackled this question have much experience in ancient history and it has led them to make certain errors which have led to erroneous conclusions. First, to cover some basics of the Roman Army from Augustus to Constantine. The Roman army during this period was an all-volunteer force. No one was in the army who didn’t want to join. The Army was made up of two groups: The Legions and the Auxilia. Recruitment for the legions was open only to Roman citizens, who served for 20 years unless they were injured and medically discharged or were kicked out. On the other hand, the auxilia were recruited from the peregrini, the non-citizens of the provinces. Their term of service was 25 years, after which they received Roman citizenship as well as conubium, the right to marry a non-Roman wife but still pass on Roman citizenship to their children. The navy was smaller and accepted more non-citizens, but the model was essentially the same. As a result, service in the auxilia was a common route for social and economic advancement for those who were not Roman citizens. In 212, the emperor Caracalla decreed that everyone in the Roman Empire was now a Roman citizen, but the auxilia did not disappear (many units were now centuries old with a storied battle history they were loath to part with), rather, they ceased to be a method for social advancement and became just another type of unit which included special units such as cavalry and archers. ... In the 1st century, we have some scraps of evidence of Christians in the Roman military. The gospel of Luke states that some soldiers (possibly from the Roman puppet Herod’s auxiliary forces) asked John the Baptist for religious advice, and he told them “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.” Matthew mentions that Jesus was visited by a centurion in Capernaum who asked him to heal his sick servant. Later, the book of Acts records that Peter preached at the house of a centurion named Cornelius who was stationed in Caesarea, and the man and his household became some of the first non-Jewish converts to Christianity. ... Christian authors Tertullian and Apollinarius said that the Christians in the legion prayed and credited them with providing rain, adding that Marcus Aurelius thanked his Christian soldiers for their prayers. .. The remains of two Christian churches from the early 3rd century have been excavated by archaeologists, and both of them are linked to the Roman army. The oldest was discovered at Megiddo in Israel in the late 1990s. The church was built in a back room inside of a military fortress that served as the headquarters of the Legio II Traiana (“Trajan’s”) and Legio VI Ferrata (“Ironclad”). On the floor there is a mosaic depicting two fish as a symbol of Jesus Christ. Any doubt about the room’s use and the identity of its worshipers is removed by inscriptions written in Greek on the mosaics: “The God-loving Akeptous has offered the table to God Jesus Christ as a memorial.” ... An often overlooked individual in this debate is a Christian named Sextus Julius Africanus. Born in Aelia Capitolina (formerly known as Jerusalem), he served as an officer in the Roman army before joining the civil service as a diplomat during the reign of Severus Alexander ... Most discussion of the textual evidence has centered around two prolific writers of the early 3rd century church: Tertullian and Origen. Here, the pacifists often commit what is known amongst ancient historians as the Everest Fallacy. ... So what are we to make of Origen and Tertullian? The available evidence seems to indicate that at the very least, a large number of Christians disagreed with them. Tertullian’s embrace of the Montanists clearly took him outside the mainstream of contemporary Christian thought of his era. ... Origen is a more interesting case, but even here we can note that he corresponded with other scholars such as Julius Africanus who quite likely disagreed with him. ,,, Further Reading: Cecil John Cadoux, The Early Christian Attitude Toward War (London: Headley, 1919), available online at: http://archive.org/details/earlychristianat00cadouoft. John T. Helgeland, “Christians and the Roman Army, A.D. 173-337,” Church History, Vol. 43, No. 2 (Jun., 1974), pp. 149-163+200. Peter J. Leithart, Defending Constantine (Madison, Wisconsin: InterVarsity Press, 2009). John F. Shean, Soldiering for God: Christianity and the Roman Army (Leiden, Netherlands: Brill, 2010). Vassilios Tzaferis, “Inscribed ‘To God Jesus Christ’: Early Christian Prayer Hall Found in Megiddo Prison,” Biblical Archaeology Review, Vol. 33, No. 2 (March/April 2007), available online at: http://www.bib-arch.org/online-exclusives/oldest-church-02.asp. John Howard Yoder, Early Christian Attitudes to War, Peace, and Revolution (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Institute of Mennonite Studies, 2009). https://gatesofnineveh.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/christians-in-the-roman-army-countering-the-pacifist-narrative/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted June 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted June 24, 2020 In the last post I only gave highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Marsh Posted June 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 126 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,090 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 501 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/15/1956 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Matthew 10:34-36 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) Following Jesus May Bring You Trouble 34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace. I came to bring trouble.[a] 35 I have come to make this happen: ‘A son will turn against his father. A daughter will turn against her mother. A daughter-in-law will turn against her mother-in-law. 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’ Revelation 20:7–10 English Standard Version The Defeat of Satan 7 And when the thousand years are ended, dSatan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out eto deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, fGog and Magog, gto gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 And hthey marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded ithe camp of the saints and jthe beloved city, but kfire came down from heaven2 and consumed them, 10 and the devil lwho had deceived them was mthrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where nthe beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Matthew 21:12-13 King James Version (KJV) 12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Psalm 144:1 (ESV) 1 Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle; Revelation 19:15 (ESV) 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. Matthew 8:5–13 (ESV) 5 When he had entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him, 6 “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.” 7 And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” 8 But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy Jesus’ disciples owned weapons, which conflicts with the idea that Jesus was a pacifist. On the night Jesus was betrayed, He even told His followers to bring swords. They had two, which Jesus claimed was enough (Luke 22:37–39). As Jesus was being arrested, Peter drew his sword and wounded one of the men present (John 18:10). Jesus healed the man (Luke 22:51) and commanded Peter to put away his weapon (John 18:11). Of note is the fact that Jesus did not condemn Peter’s ownership of a sword, but only his particular misuse of it. https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pacifist.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted June 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.91 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, whitetiger said: I am sorry I will disagree. I am more than happy to make my font bigger and that has never been rude. Maybe I'm a dinosaur but I come from when the Internet started and I do know what is considered rude. Go with God No, you don't understand the terminology. Upping the font is excessive usage of capitalizations. Some feel going for this makes an emphasis. It's considered shouting on the internet, whether forum or chat room settings. I personally dislike it for the causes of existing visual difficulties. It's hard to read. Vaya con Dios. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic66 Posted June 24, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 649 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 200 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Josheb said: Very good for the most part. The Sermon on the mount is about interpersonal relationships and not those of nation-states. But those dissenting from Christians in military service are going to say war is decidedly personal . I think the distinction you've made there is valid. I disagree with the distinction being made between the spiritual life and the secular life. This "two kingdoms" thinking is not something Christianity has historically asserted and we can look to Augustine's "The City of God" to see how Christians have believed the gospel was applicable to all domains of life (as I and others here have argued). I also have to dispute the idea satan runs the world. Satan is a minion. Satan is a sin-enslaved, stripped-of-his-former-glory minion who can do only that which his Creator permits him to do. He is a carrion-eater. And if there are no sons (and daughters) of God in the military they they will not be influencing the sons (and daughters) of satan. You got that 100% correct. Not one of the apostles formed or joined any military milita it is the gospel of peace not war or violence the church as been given the ministry of reconciliation not wrath and execution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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