Are the U.S. and Trump the Ones Restraining?

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Your "simple examination of the language" shows that you don't understand Greek, since you missed the Greek neuter tense of the first verb. And saying arti means "he who now" is nonsensical, since arti is merely the adverb "now."

In short, you bluffed your way through your translation.

KJV                 only       he who now       letteth        [will let],

Greek            monon           arti               katecho       heos

Literal             Merely      just now        hold fast        until.

 

KJV                   until               he be taken             out of               the way. 

Greek                heos                ginomai                   ek                    mesos       

Literal               until               to emerge           from out of         in the midst.

If you will notice it's the KJV that translates 'arti' as 'he who now'.

I'm okay with that as I think I understand why they rendered the passage they way they did.

If you notice the Literal line I render 'arti' as 'just now'.

If that's the only objection then it seems you agree that literally 2 Thessalonians 2:7 reads, "...only for now wait till the emergence in the middle."; and that it isn't proof of the restraining influence of a temporal or eternal corporate or individual entity.

[WilliamL]

A quick synopsis of the original post:

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now you know that which restrains [the revealing of the Man of Sin, vs. 3], that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only he who now restrains [will do so] until he is come out of the midst. 8 And then the Lawless One will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the spirit of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His Parousia.

1) Can there be any doubt that the spirit of lawlessness is now diligently working to destroy Americaʼs restraining (but waning) power against lawlessness; that is, that this spirit is subverting the governmentʼs ability to hold fast to the order of U.S. law and world law?

2) And that the current “he who restrains/holds fast” is the President of the United States, Donald Trump? (However incompetent to the task he may be.)

3) And that the Son of Perdition is waiting in the wings, preparing to step onto the stage as a deliverer during the coming time of economic and political chaos?

 

So, are any of you more willing than in June to believe that the above three points may soon be coming to pass?

[I'll repeat this same question after the election. Could be interesting...]

[integrity]

Of course trump and the usa are not restraining the evil that will be the antichrist. Trump is a man of bad character and horrible morals. And the usa may have one day long ago been a hero. we didnt good naturedly rescue any country in distress. we enter any wars if theres an advantage to be had. Why arent we intervening in China with the Uighur genocide? Or with all our power and technology why is child trafficking so rampant? us is as filled with evil as any other country. We are being judged by God  just like the rest if the worl.d I am very grateful immensely so that God allowed me to be born here and raise my kids that have a chance to life and not starve or be someone's slaves like third world countries. But america isn't holding any evil back. Its holy spirit, be it through the church or through just His own hand. And it will be restrained until God chooses to let it happen.

 

Man is powerless against satan's darkness. That alone should tell you not one here on earth is restraining any sort of darkness. Now is God perhaps using Trumps presidency to slow the degrading of our nations morals and rapid accumulation of sins, to give us, the Church, more time to repent and draw near to Him? that could be the case. As a side note, I have no stance in politics besides each side is equally corrupt and evil, not for the benefit of the people at all.

Edited September 8, 2020 by integrity

[WilliamL]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:34 PM, integrity said:

Of course trump and the usa are not restraining the evil that will be the antichrist. ...america isn't holding any evil back. ...

Man is powerless against satan's darkness. That alone should tell you not one here on earth is restraining any sort of darkness.

Paul says differently:

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject to the superior authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. ... 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. ... 4 ...But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

This is speaking about civil governments and their rulers.

 

[integrity]

I see your scripture but I dont think it disagrees with what I'm saying. Yes God allows rulers to rule. Nothing happens without His consent. That doesnt mean some man, especially an immoral unrighteous one, can hold back evil. No.

[Diaste]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:03 AM, WilliamL said:

A quick synopsis of the original post:

2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now you know that which restrains [the revealing of the Man of Sin, vs. 3], that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, only he who now restrains [will do so] until he is come out of the midst. 8 And then the Lawless One will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the spirit of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His Parousia.

1) Can there be any doubt that the spirit of lawlessness is now diligently working to destroy Americaʼs restraining (but waning) power against lawlessness; that is, that this spirit is subverting the governmentʼs ability to hold fast to the order of U.S. law and world law?

2) And that the current “he who restrains/holds fast” is the President of the United States, Donald Trump? (However incompetent to the task he may be.)

3) And that the Son of Perdition is waiting in the wings, preparing to step onto the stage as a deliverer during the coming time of economic and political chaos?

 

So, are any of you more willing than in June to believe that the above three points may soon be coming to pass?

[I'll repeat this same question after the election. Could be interesting...]

Nope. Still saying the revealing and the rebellion are what holds back the Coming and the Gathering. 

[WilliamL]

On 9/14/2020 at 3:50 AM, Diaste said:

Nope. Still saying the revealing and the rebellion are what holds back the Coming and the Gathering. 

Neither revealing nor rebellion is a "he."

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Neither revealing nor rebellion is a "he."

True. But the one revealed is. 

"And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time."

So that's a 'what' is restraining. That would be the events "the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed." Which is what is restraining the Coming and the Gathering. 

But then context is changed 4 verses later to arrive at a different idea. 

And I as I have shown from the Greek in scripture 'he' isn't 'taken out', he 'emerges'. 

"For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way."

The part in bold makes no sense in the context of the first verse and what Paul is teaching. The literal Greek reads, "...merely for now hold fast till he emerges on the world stage in the middle."

That is exactly what Paul is teaching throughout verses 1-6 concerning the man of sin; That he will be revealed by declaring himself to be God in the Temple and it will happen on the biggest stage and in the middle. Which coincidently confirms a coming A of D. That ought to be quite the detestable horror inducing act in the eyes of a great many people. I would think Jews, Christians and Muslims would all be shocked out of their false religions and personal hypocrisy by that act. 

Or maybe not.

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

That ought to be quite the detestable horror inducing act in the eyes of a great many people. I would think Jews, Christians and Muslims would all be shocked out of their false religions and personal hypocrisy by that act. 

Or maybe not.

I'm inclined to go with "maybe not".  Those who walk in truth will see it as an abomination.  Everyone else will be deceived because of their preference for the things of this world.

[DeighAnn]

On 6/29/2020 at 5:19 PM, TheBlade said:

Hmm for me seems easy to understand. Is Trump U.S. the Ones Restraining? I don't believe so. Well its always about Israel. And the lawless one is not of this world. The ONLY one on this earth that has that power is? The sweet Holy Spirit.. the Church. He gave us all power over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt us. As long as the Church is here.. the lawless one will never show up. Theres no demon, fallen angel that has more power then ONE believer. For in that one believer is the king of kings lord or lords!

 

What does the church have to do with the war in heaven?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by DeighAnn
WRONG BUTTON PUSHED