Postmillennialism: Christendom's Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race.

[DeighAnn]

23 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Start HERE, and HERE, and HERE , and HERE.

• confess, or acknowledge, the wrongdoing,
• repent, or purpose to change or thinking and the associated conduct, 
• make restitution or otherwise amend the error and/or its consequences where possible,
• pay the cost of doing so wherever applicable,
• seek and give forgiveness (God, self0 and others),
• and thereby be reconciled to the fellowship or community now as an improved and more knowledgeable productive member.[/list]

Please understand,  I don't click on links,  so if it isn't too much,  could you just write out the  Bk, chap and vs for me in the order you gave the list above.  I group a bunch of those steps together.  I repent of an acknowledged wrong doing (1 and 2), ask for forgiveness (3, 4 and 5), and believe the blood of Christ washes me clean so that God may hear my prayers once again. (6)  

I have written out a statements clarifying  where I stood  after going back and reading what I had written and seeing how it was being taken wrong.  I have be dead wrong about many things, as I am sure I am now about somethings, and have no problem putting forth what Truth God has given me once received.   God definitely gives to us in His time, not ours.  The best part about it is I know as long as I keep my eyes and ears open,  do not sit stubbornly in what I know now, and am willing to accept new knowledge, HE WILL GIVE IT. I love when He takes me from point to point.  (It is amazing how blind we really are.  How many times have you prayed for understanding and God leads you to a place you have read 100 times before and opens your eyes to it?  Praise God, Glory to God, how I love the Word!!!  And once given,  it is so simple, so clear, so right in front of your nose you wonder how you never saw it before that moment.  God gives us all.  Not one of us know anything but what He gives, what He wants us to know and when He wants us to know it)  

 

Got to put forth some scripture

Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

 

2Corinthians 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

2Corinthians 7:5 For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears.

2Corinthians 7:6 Nevertheless God, that comforteth those that are cast down, comforted us by the coming of Titus;

2Corinthians 7:7 And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the more.

2Corinthians 7:8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

2Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

2Corinthians 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

2Corinthians 7:12 Wherefore, though I wrote unto you, I did it not for his cause that had done the wrong, nor for his cause that suffered wrong, but that our care for you in the sight of God might appear unto you.

2Corinthians 7:13 Therefore we were comforted in your comfort: yea, and exceedingly the more joyed we for the joy of Titus, because his spirit was refreshed by you all.


 

 

John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

 

John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

AND so all of us should rejoice when anyone is given a Truth by God because the whole body receives it.   And I believe the Holy Spirit will convict and lead that soul to do the right thing all on His very own.  

 

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Josheb said:

That is not an answer to the questions asked. What's the topic of discussion? What's your purpose in posting to me? 

Shalom, Josheb.

Well, all one has to do is look at the heading at the top of each page of posts: The topic of discussion is "Postmillennialism: Christendom's Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race."

My purpose in posting to YOU, Josheb, is to inform you of the weaknesses of the "postmillennialism" point of view, in SPITE of being touted as a "bright cheerful view of the future of the human race."

See, the postmillennial view suggests that Christianity will EVENTUALLY win the world over, but Yeshua`s response was not so rosy:

Luke 18:1-8 (KJV)

1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2 Saying,

"There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying,

" 'Avenge me of mine adversary.'

4 "And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself,

" 'Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me!' "

6 And the Lord said,

"Hear what the unjust judge saith! 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

And, as I've said before, the Greek of this last sentence is asked in such a way as to expect a NEGATIVE response! "No, of course He won't!" How could that be IF the world is "getting better and better" because of Christianity?

I've also said this before, and I'll say it again: If the Messiah is "currently reigning," then He is the WEAKEST "king" there has ever been! BUT, that is NOT how His reign is portrayed in prophecy!

Pay attention to the prophecies that Roar has been citing! Go back and READ them! Yeshua` the Messiah shall be the ULTIMATE King! He'll be a "King of kings," a World Emperor! That is, the kings of the earth will acknowledge Him to be THEIR King, whether willingly or otherwise! He will "rule them with a rod of iron!" It is THEN, when HE shall reign over the entire earth, that there will be a peace in His Kingdom that provides a "Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race!" And, that Bright Cheerful View will become a FULL reality when Yeshua` hands over the Kingdom to His Father, God! (1 Corinthians 15:28)

The title, "Melekh Mlaakhiym" ("King of kings" in Hebrew) is a phrase in the noun construct state! It shows POSSESSION! The "Mlaakhiym" ("kings") "OWN" him as THEIR "Melekh!" ("King!") Rather, they "OWE" him their allegience!

This title was applied to Artachshasta' (Artaxerxes) in Ezra 7:12, to Nvuwkhadre'tsar (Nebuchadrezzar) in Ezekiel 26:7, and to Nvuwkhadnetsar (Nebuchadnezzar) in Daniel 2:37. It will also be applied, of course, to Yeshua` haMashiyach ("Ieesous ho Christos," "Jesus the Christ") in Revelation 19:16 ("Basileus basileoon" in Greek).

That's it; that's my purpose in posting to you.

[branchesofHim]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:06 AM, JAG** said:

The subject is Christian Eschatology.
Eschatology is about the future of Humanity.
There are 4 different major views of Christian Eschatology {listed below}.
Postmillennialism is the only one of the 4 that predicts a bright cheerful future
here on this Earth before human history ends.

So the question is raised:

What does the future hold for the Christian Church and the Human Race
here on planet Earth? The answer is the Human Race has a magnificent
optimistic bright cheerful future.

The world will eventually become a Christian world. This will require many
millenniums yet to come as human history rolls forward. This does not
mean that every single person on Earth will become a Christian, rather
it means that the human race, as a race, will be saved and the vast
overwhelming majority of human beings will, in the far off future,
become Christian.

The Lord Jesus' Great Commission To His Christian Church is about
His Church Christianizing the world:

The Lord Jesus told His disciples at the end of Matthew's gospel chapter
28 to go and make disciples of all the nations. His disciples needed power
to accomplish this great task. The Lord Jesus told them what this power
was. He said "all authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given to me,
therefore go and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to obey
all that I have commanded you." Matthew 28:18-20

The Lord Jesus was serious when He gave His Christian Church her Great
Commission. His Great Commission is a command and not a suggestion.

Therefore His Great Commission to go and make disciples of all the nations
will be successfully accomplished before He returns to Earth to end human
history -- the world will eventually become Christian. "He must reign until
He has put all his enemies under His feet." 1 Cor. 15:25
"For He (God) has put everything under His feet." 1 Cor. 15:27

The Lord Jesus right NOW is reigning as King over this entire world and He is
gradually incrementally Christianizing the entire world. Again, how long will this
take? It will take many many millenniums yet to unfold, but He will be victorious.
We must be patient. This is going to take a very long time.

Meanwhile . .

Unfortunately there is a lot of Doom and Gloom and Defeatism
out there inside 21st century Christendom .

Christendom holds and presents 4 major views of the future
of the Christian Church and the Human Race.

These 4 views are:
(1) Postmillennialism
(2) Amillennialism
(3) Premillennialism
(4) Dispensationalism

Of the 4 views only Postmillennialism presents an optimistic
bright cheerful victorious future for the Christian Church and
the Human Race here on Earth before the Lord returns.

This Post is presenting some general thoughts on
Postmillennialism and Postmillennialism's optimistic view of
the future.

Long live Christian optimism.

Large swaths of the Christian Church today are awash in
Gloom and Doom and in Defeatism passed off as being
spiritual, when in fact the Bible teaches that the Christian
Church will be victorious. I will build my Church, said the
Lord Jesus, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
Go and make disciples of all the nations, said the Lord
Jesus, because I have now been given all authority both
in Heaven and on Earth.

It is sad indeed that Amillennialism, Premillennialism, and
Dispensationalism repudiates the gospel victory theme of
the Bible in their modern eschatological speculations and
replaces this victory theme with a defeatist scheme of the
future of the Christian Church and Human race. This
paralyzes Christian cultural efforts and eliminates the
practical significance from the Christian worldview, and
gives Christians a sinful comfort in lethargy because all
this Defeatism and Doom and Gloom tends to justify
social and cultural irresponsibility. "Why polish brass
on a sinking ship", ask many misinformed Christians.

Here is an excellent definition of Postmillennialism:

"Postmillennialism holds that the Lord Jesus Christ established
His kingdom on earth through His preaching and redemptive
work in the first century and that He equips His church with the
gospel, empowers her by the Holy Spirit, and charges her with
the Great Commission to disciple all nations. Postmillennialism
expects that eventually the vast majority of men living will be
saved. Increasing gospel success will gradually produce a
time in history prior to Christ's return in which faith,
righteousness, peace, and prosperity will prevail in the
affairs of men and nations. After an extensive era of such
conditions the Lord will return visibly, bodily, and gloriously,
to end history with the general resurrection and the final
Judgment after which the eternal order follows."
___ Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry.

Christianity is slowly Christianizing the world.

Christianity started small in numbers. There was a time in the 1st century
at the very beginning of Christianity when the number of Christians in the
world was less than 12. Today, some 2000 years later, there is some 2.3
billion Christians in the world. We have a name for this. We call it progress.

America today has over 1300 Evangelical mega-churches with weekly
attendance of over 2000. The Roman Catholics have over 3000 churches
with a weekly attendance of over 2000. This is Christian progress in the world.

Christianity is growing like wildfire in the Global South for example in Africa.
There is a huge Christian Church in China. House Church.
.Christianity is huge in South Korea and in South America and Central America.
The American Christian Church is still a vibrant force in the World. All this is
Christian progress in the world.

■ The Lord Jesus "shall have dominion from sea to sea" Psalm 72:8
■ "The whole Earth will be filled with His glory." Psalm 72:19
■ "All the nations will call Him blessed." Psalm 72:17
■ The Lord Jesus really meant it, when He commanded His Christian
Church to "go and make disciples of all the nations." Matthew 28:19

"As of the year 2015, Christianity has more than 2.3 billion adherents,
out of about 7.5 billion people. The faith represents one-third of the
world's population and is the largest religion in the world, with the three
largest groups being the Catholic Church, Protestantism, and
the Eastern Orthodox Church."__wikipedia

At the end of human history , , ,
The Book Of Revelation says that there is a great multitude of the saved
from every nation, tribe, people and language and they are so numerous
that no one can count them.

"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one
could count from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing
before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white
robes . . .and they cried out . . . Salvation belongs to our God who sits
on the throne and to the Lamb." Revelation 7:9-10

_________

 

The Lord Jesus. He Shall Have Dominion. Victory! 

____________

 

 

Miscellaneous Points:

* I am a Bible believing orthodox Postmillennialist.

* I am NOT a Full Preterist.

* Full Preterism is False.

* FYI, I am a Bible believing Protestant {Baptist.}

* I posted that up there only as  "food for thought."

* I do NOT argue Christian Eschatology in threads.

* I look forward to reading some of the responses  to the Opening Post.

God Bless.

JAG

 

``
 

Greetings. Brings the following to mind for me. Shalom.

Matthew 4:[1] Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
[2] And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
[3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[4] But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
[5] Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[7] Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

[dhchristian]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Acts 2:14-18
But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: 'Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.  "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;  but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:  'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my bondslaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth My Spirit and they shall prophesy.'" 

2 Peter was written much later than the events at Pentecost. Peter was quoting the prophet Joel when he said last days. Let's look at that passage, and see if we can discover some things

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.  (Joel 2:23-32)

Here is What peter quoted at Pentecost....

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:16-21)

Now unlike some dispensationalists, I actually agree with you that 70 ad was significant. Up until that Point Christ Jesus could have returned and established His Kingdom in Jerusalem, But by the end of Acts, It was Clear that Israel was outright rejecting the Gospel of Christ and the Kingdom offered up by the suffering servant. But what was not apparent to Peter or the apostles was the insertion of the church age, and all those Old testament Prophecies of the millennial reign never came to be, But were put off until THIS GENERATION... (1948 on or 1967 0n, when Israel reoccupied Jerusalem. Now according scripture a generation is 70, and if by strength 80 years. Notice now in the passage above, Peter did not quote the part about the early rain and the latter rain.... Why? Because what happened at Pentecost was merely the early rain, the latter rain has never occurred, but it has been delayed by the "Mystery" that is the church age, the age of the gentiles, when the fulness of the gentiles comes in. So Peter rightly quoted Joel, and these "could have been" the last days, had Israel accepted Christ as their messiah, But God had other plans, to bring salvation to the nations as well. It is only after the fulness of the gentiles has come in that the restoration of Israel can begin to take place, and part of that restoration is them making a deal with the devil, the covenant with death Spoken of By Isaiah (28: 15-18) and the covenant with many spoken of By Daniel (9:24-27). This act will force them into the wilderness (matthew 24:15ff, Rev. 12), Much like what happened with the siege of Jerusalem. If You need proof texts for these points they are found in Romans 11, as this was Paul's epiphany, found in that chapter, You can also see this developed even further in his later prison Epistle of Ephesians, One of the most underquoted prophetic Epistles of Paul by most end time scholars. In Ephesians He lays out step by step this whole process of the saints reaching the fulness of Christ. This also is explained in the letters to the seven churches, when one sees them as church ages, which several Noted Scholars have done including A.W. Pink among them. What was the first of these churches in revelation? Ephesians..... 

If Pentecost was the "early rain", What then according to Preterists is the "Latter rain"? There was none that fell upon the nation of Israel, But there will be one as spoken of By Zechariah 12:20ff. Which ushers in the day of the LORD, (Zech. 14). All these things will occur, and have yet to occur from the Old testament Prophets regarding Israel. They are by no means out of the picture, Nor is their restoration like unto the gentiles. Yes, we are all one in Christ Jesus and will be one, But they have the greater promises of God to be fulfilled in and through them.

God Is not a liar, He will fulfill his promises to the nation of Israel, But by his mercy and grace he extended that mercy unto the gentiles as well, this is the mystery Paul Spoke of. You cannot Just ignore the myriad of OT prophecies that do not fit your eschatology, instead you have to See the Big picture, as Paul did in Romans 11...

 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Romans 11:32-33)

This is exactly what Peter was reiterating in the second Epistle I Quoted earlier, about a day being a thousand year, and thousand years as a day. About How this delay is part of God's Longsuffering and Mercy, not wishing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance. You should be praising God and giving Him Glory for this instead you choose to scoff, as the scoffers do in that passage, Quoting the scoffer of all scoffers Bertrand Russel. Shows, where your real allegiances lie.

As You can see for every 2 passages you give as support for your preterism I have hundreds to prove premillennialism, In fact ALL of scripture points to this. Especially Prophetic scriptures. It is as simple as the birthing process, the analogy used by Christ Himself in the Olivet discourse, Of Birth pangs, followed by Labor and delivery, and sorrow turning to Joy.... this analogy is all over scripture, and humans intrinsically and common sensically understand this, with Intellectual prowess or deduction. So simple even a child can understand it. 

Again, this too is scriptural, Occams razor, simplicity always trumps complexity. Jesus Praised the Father for this (Matthew 11;25), Paul Preached about this (1 Corinthians 1-3), John taught this (I John 3:1-3), as did Peter, and James. There is something Carnal and fleshly about the Human thinking process that must be overcome by the believer or else they will fall into the trap of vanity and pride.... (Read Proverbs 3:5-7) Until you understand this, all you do here will be fruitless. Read 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3, Put your intellect in its rightful place and you will grow and learn and be Spirit taught, But He cannot teach those whose faith is in their own mental capacities, as this is misplaced faith.

  

[Alive]

6 hours ago, dhchristian said:

2 Peter was written much later than the events at Pentecost. Peter was quoting the prophet Joel when he said last days. Let's look at that passage, and see if we can discover some things

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.  (Joel 2:23-32)

Here is What peter quoted at Pentecost....

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:16-21)

Now unlike some dispensationalists, I actually agree with you that 70 ad was significant. Up until that Point Christ Jesus could have returned and established His Kingdom in Jerusalem, But by the end of Acts, It was Clear that Israel was outright rejecting the Gospel of Christ and the Kingdom offered up by the suffering servant. But what was not apparent to Peter or the apostles was the insertion of the church age, and all those Old testament Prophecies of the millennial reign never came to be, But were put off until THIS GENERATION... (1948 on or 1967 0n, when Israel reoccupied Jerusalem. Now according scripture a generation is 70, and if by strength 80 years. Notice now in the passage above, Peter did not quote the part about the early rain and the latter rain.... Why? Because what happened at Pentecost was merely the early rain, the latter rain has never occurred, but it has been delayed by the "Mystery" that is the church age, the age of the gentiles, when the fulness of the gentiles comes in. So Peter rightly quoted Joel, and these "could have been" the last days, had Israel accepted Christ as their messiah, But God had other plans, to bring salvation to the nations as well. It is only after the fulness of the gentiles has come in that the restoration of Israel can begin to take place, and part of that restoration is them making a deal with the devil, the covenant with death Spoken of By Isaiah (28: 15-18) and the covenant with many spoken of By Daniel (9:24-27). This act will force them into the wilderness (matthew 24:15ff, Rev. 12), Much like what happened with the siege of Jerusalem. If You need proof texts for these points they are found in Romans 11, as this was Paul's epiphany, found in that chapter, You can also see this developed even further in his later prison Epistle of Ephesians, One of the most underquoted prophetic Epistles of Paul by most end time scholars. In Ephesians He lays out step by step this whole process of the saints reaching the fulness of Christ. This also is explained in the letters to the seven churches, when one sees them as church ages, which several Noted Scholars have done including A.W. Pink among them. What was the first of these churches in revelation? Ephesians..... 

If Pentecost was the "early rain", What then according to Preterists is the "Latter rain"? There was none that fell upon the nation of Israel, But there will be one as spoken of By Zechariah 12:20ff. Which ushers in the day of the LORD, (Zech. 14). All these things will occur, and have yet to occur from the Old testament Prophets regarding Israel. They are by no means out of the picture, Nor is their restoration like unto the gentiles. Yes, we are all one in Christ Jesus and will be one, But they have the greater promises of God to be fulfilled in and through them.

God Is not a liar, He will fulfill his promises to the nation of Israel, But by his mercy and grace he extended that mercy unto the gentiles as well, this is the mystery Paul Spoke of. You cannot Just ignore the myriad of OT prophecies that do not fit your eschatology, instead you have to See the Big picture, as Paul did in Romans 11...

 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! (Romans 11:32-33)

This is exactly what Peter was reiterating in the second Epistle I Quoted earlier, about a day being a thousand year, and thousand years as a day. About How this delay is part of God's Longsuffering and Mercy, not wishing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance. You should be praising God and giving Him Glory for this instead you choose to scoff, as the scoffers do in that passage, Quoting the scoffer of all scoffers Bertrand Russel. Shows, where your real allegiances lie.

As You can see for every 2 passages you give as support for your preterism I have hundreds to prove premillennialism, In fact ALL of scripture points to this. Especially Prophetic scriptures. It is as simple as the birthing process, the analogy used by Christ Himself in the Olivet discourse, Of Birth pangs, followed by Labor and delivery, and sorrow turning to Joy.... this analogy is all over scripture, and humans intrinsically and common sensically understand this, with Intellectual prowess or deduction. So simple even a child can understand it. 

Again, this too is scriptural, Occams razor, simplicity always trumps complexity. Jesus Praised the Father for this (Matthew 11;25), Paul Preached about this (1 Corinthians 1-3), John taught this (I John 3:1-3), as did Peter, and James. There is something Carnal and fleshly about the Human thinking process that must be overcome by the believer or else they will fall into the trap of vanity and pride.... (Read Proverbs 3:5-7) Until you understand this, all you do here will be fruitless. Read 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3, Put your intellect in its rightful place and you will grow and learn and be Spirit taught, But He cannot teach those whose faith is in their own mental capacities, as this is misplaced faith.

  

Thank you for this well put together post, dh.

[Alive]

17 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Many of us see you for who you are some do not You avoid those who see you for who you are and go after those who do not thinking you can make them twice a proselyte of hell like you yourself are.

This is an unnecessary personal attack...please stick to the points made.

[David1701]

8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Josheb.

Well, all one has to do is look at the heading at the top of each page of posts: The topic of discussion is "Postmillennialism: Christendom's Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race."

My purpose in posting to YOU, Josheb, is to inform you of the weaknesses of the "postmillennialism" point of view, in SPITE of being touted as a "bright cheerful view of the future of the human race."

See, the postmillennial view suggests that Christianity will EVENTUALLY win the world over, but Yeshua`s response was not so rosy:

Luke 18:1-8 (KJV)

1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2 Saying,

"There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying,

" 'Avenge me of mine adversary.'

4 "And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself,

" 'Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me!' "

6 And the Lord said,

"Hear what the unjust judge saith! 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

And, as I've said before, the Greek of this last sentence is asked in such a way as to expect a NEGATIVE response! "No, of course He won't!" How could that be IF the world is "getting better and better" because of Christianity?

I've also said this before, and I'll say it again: If the Messiah is "currently reigning," then He is the WEAKEST "king" there has ever been! BUT, that is NOT how His reign is portrayed in prophecy!

Pay attention to the prophecies that Roar has been citing! Go back and READ them! Yeshua` the Messiah shall be the ULTIMATE King! He'll be a "King of kings," a World Emperor! That is, the kings of the earth will acknowledge Him to be THEIR King, whether willingly or otherwise! He will "rule them with a rod of iron!" It is THEN, when HE shall reign over the entire earth, that there will be a peace in His Kingdom that provides a "Bright Cheerful View Of The Future Of The Human Race!" And, that Bright Cheerful View will become a FULL reality when Yeshua` hands over the Kingdom to His Father, God! (1 Corinthians 15:28)

The title, "Melekh Mlaakhiym" ("King of kings" in Hebrew) is a phrase in the noun construct state! It shows POSSESSION! The "Mlaakhiym" ("kings") "OWN" him as THEIR "Melekh!" ("King!") Rather, they "OWE" him their allegience!

This title was applied to Artachshasta' (Artaxerxes) in Ezra 7:12, to Nvuwkhadre'tsar (Nebuchadrezzar) in Ezekiel 26:7, and to Nvuwkhadnetsar (Nebuchadnezzar) in Daniel 2:37. It will also be applied, of course, to Yeshua` haMashiyach ("Ieesous ho Christos," "Jesus the Christ") in Revelation 19:16 ("Basileus basileoon" in Greek).

That's it; that's my purpose in posting to you.

At present, I don't think that Postmillenialism is correct; but I just have to comment on something you posted.

Quote

I've also said this before, and I'll say it again: If the Messiah is "currently reigning," then He is the WEAKEST "king" there has ever been! BUT, that is NOT how His reign is portrayed in prophecy!

This is simply blasphemous!  The Lord is always reigning in his kingdom (not to mention that he has ordained what unbelievers do as well).

When the Lord became incarnate, lived a sinless life, shed his blood and died on the cross, was resurrected bodily, ascended bodily to heaven, then poured out his Spirit on his body on Earth, he set up a kingdom that will last forever and will never be destroyed.  This kingdom does not come by outward appearance but is within us who are the body of Christ.

1 Cor. 15:22-26 (KJV)

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

The Lord is reigning now and will continue to do so, until even death has been defeated and is no more.

 

[dhchristian]

19 minutes ago, Alive said:

17 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Many of us see you for who you are some do not You avoid those who see you for who you are and go after those who do not thin,king you can make them twice a proselyte of hell like you yourself are.

This is an unnecessary personal attack...please stick to the points made.

This is a critique Christ Himself used, I merely quoted Him... Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

Christ Himself was a bit of a "rule breaker", and this by no means was his most demeaning attack. He called the Pharisees what they were, the sons of Satan to their face. (John 8) One translation of Paul, speaking of the circumcission states that he wished they would go all the way and emasculate themselves I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves! (Gal. 5:12,ESV) 

I realize that some view Christ and Christians as all "nicey, nicey" but at times righteous anger and the prodding of the Holy Ghost calls on us to "contend for the faith" from the heresies that try to slip in unawares. We are seeing that here as well. As Others have noted, Paul dealt with this very same thing in his second epistle to the Thessalonians, chapter 2. He dealt with the same sort of opposition which he had to "hand over to Satan" (1 Timothy 1:20). 

The following also applies here directly... But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. (2 Timothy 2:16-18)

 

If Christ or Paul came here and spoke would they too be reported for "personal attacks"? would they also be reprimanded? The truth offends, which is why some choose to oppose Truth rather than being convicted by it and repent. In their heads, most in the church today unconsciously are echoing Pilate's words "what is Truth?" rather than being convicted by the Truth. Truth hurts, But we MUST learn to love Truth, whether that be pleasant or unpleasant.... The LORD loves those whom he disciplines, as a Father loves a son. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:5-9)

[Alive]

6 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

This is a critique Christ Himself used, I merely quoted Him... Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (Matthew 23:15)

Christ Himself was a bit of a "rule breaker", and this by no means was his most demeaning attack. He called the Pharisees what they were, the sons of Satan to their face. (John 8) One translation of Paul, speaking of the circumcission states that he wished they would go all the way and emasculate themselves I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves! (Gal. 5:12,ESV) 

I realize that some view Christ and Christians as all "nicey, nicey" but at times righteous anger and the prodding of the Holy Ghost calls on us to "contend for the faith" from the heresies that try to slip in unawares. We are seeing that here as well. As Others have noted, Paul dealt with this very same thing in his second epistle to the Thessalonians, chapter 2. He dealt with the same sort of opposition which he had to "hand over to Satan" (1 Timothy 1:20). 

The following also applies here directly... But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. (2 Timothy 2:16-18)

 

If Christ or Paul came here and spoke would they too be reported for "personal attacks"? would they also be reprimanded? The truth offends, which is why some choose to oppose Truth rather than being convicted by it and repent. In their heads, most in the church today unconsciously are echoing Pilate's words "what is Truth?" rather than being convicted by the Truth. Truth hurts, But we MUST learn to love Truth, whether that be pleasant or unpleasant.... The LORD loves those whom he disciplines, as a Father loves a son. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? (Heb 12:5-9)

You are not Jesus, nor are you Paul. You are a member of this forum and the TOS, that you agreed to, ask you to avoid personal insult. Any reasonable observer would see this as such. Please evaluate according to the TOS. As far as the rest of what you imply about a sibling--the Lord will judge.

[Alive]

@josheb. What do you do with Zephaniah? Its a short book. Give it a read and respond, if you will.

:-)