The third horseman of the apocalypse

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The three horsemen of the Apocalypse are still future and will occur at the 7 year tribulation. The third horseman represents a great famine likely as a result of the wars from the second horseman. 

No, that is pulling them out of the context John wrote them in. Go back and study chapters 4 & 5. Jesus got the book and began opening the seals as soon as He ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down.

Seal 1 is the church (white to represent righteousness).
Seal 2, 3, and 4, ride together to represent the devil's attempts to stop the church at the 1/4 of the world so the gospel would not go around the world so the end would never come. (He failed!)

[luigi]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

It seems, you have totally not understood what I wrote: these three horsemen are TOGETHER: you can't separate them if God tells us they ride together. Note carefully:

2nd seal: RED Horse and rider given a great SWORD.
3rd seal: BLACK horse and rider to bring famine or HUNGER.
4th seal: PALE horse and rider titled DEATH.

⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

And power was given unto them: who is "them?" 
to kill with SWORD: the RED horse and rider was given the SWORD
to kill with HUNGER: the BLACK horse and rider was to bring HUNGER
to kill with DEATH: the PALE horse and rider was titled DEATH

over the fourth part of the earth Note carefully: ALL THREE ARE LIMITED in their theater of operation to 1/4 of the earth

⁴ And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. [Limited to 1/4th of the earth]

 

⁵ And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. 6  And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. [Limited to 1/4th of the earth]

 

⁷ And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. ⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them , [the red horse and rider] to kill with sword, and [the black horse and rider to kill] with hunger, and [the pale horse and rider to kill] with death, and with the beasts of the earth - [but all three limited in where they could operate] over the fourth part of the earth

Note: the way John wrote this, all three ride together, and all three are limited to one fourth of the earth. I imagine that would take in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. Two world wars have started in Europe. The black plague hit Europe twice, killing around 1/3 of the people each time. The plague of AIDS hit Africa very hard. Famines have hit Africa over and over. In other words, you cannot say that the Red horse and rider can bring war to China. War may well come to China (and it has) but it will not come by this red horse and rider, for he is limited to one fourth of the earth. 

 

Of course you can talk about any of the 3 bad horsemen separately, but just keep in mind, each one is limited to one fourth of the earth, and they ride together. 

I guess we'll just have to see things differently, until further developments. I say that the four horsemen of the apocalypse represent the world's four primary socioeconomic type systems, which the fourth horseman described having jurisdiction over a fourth part of the earth, supports my perspective. As such, I will continue to believe that the third horseman in all likelihood represents third world nations who when their socioeconomic systems implode, as many are commencing to do now, we will then see the nominal amount of currency for basic foodstuff measures taken under the third horseman's nations under his control.

[luigi]

On 7/19/2020 at 11:14 PM, The_Truth_Seeker said:

I have to admit the oil and wine reference I not exactly sure the intended meaning, but perhaps maybe a reference to luxury items the common people couldn't afford?

 

If we assume that the third horseman's actions are commencing with ensuing developments, it may then be that the command not to hurt the oil or wine, has to do with environmental destruction, which at the start of the next chapter in Revelation 7:1-3, four angels are instructed to continue refraining from environmental damage due the earth, until the Lords servants throughout the earth have been sealed with the Lords truth.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

I guess we'll just have to see things differently, until further developments. I say that the four horsemen of the apocalypse represent the world's four primary socioeconomic type systems, which the fourth horseman described having jurisdiction over a fourth part of the earth, supports my perspective. As such, I will continue to believe that the third horseman in all likelihood represents third world nations who when their socioeconomic systems implode, as many are commencing to do now, we will then see the nominal amount of currency for basic foodstuff measures taken under the third horseman's nations under his control.

What you and I believe is meaningless. What is REAL is what the word of God SAYS. Did I now do a good job of showing exactly what the word of God SAYS? I quoted it, I colored it, I quoted it again. I can only caution you: base your theories on the WORD! 

I asked Jesus, " who is them?" He answered: I heard His voice and His words: He said: "its right there in the verse: read it again."

This happened AT LEAST three time. I would read it again but could not see it! WHY could I not see it? I have no idea. But after three or four times of Him telling me that it was right there in the verse, FINALLY I got it.   "And power was given unto THEM over a 4th part of the earth.

You are reading this as if it said, "and power was given unto HIM..."  (the forth rider)

The Greek is αὐτοῖς and in almost every verse it is translated THEM. This is proven to be the right translation for the Sword, Hunger, and Death that is written next. 

[luigi]

2 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What you and I believe is meaningless. What is REAL is what the word of God SAYS. Did I now do a good job of showing exactly what the word of God SAYS? I quoted it, I colored it, I quoted it again. I can only caution you: base your theories on the WORD! 

I asked Jesus, " who is them?" He answered: I heard His voice and His words: He said: "its right there in the verse: read it again."

This happened AT LEAST three time. I would read it again but could not see it! WHY could I not see it? I have no idea. But after three or four times of Him telling me that it was right there in the verse, FINALLY I got it.   "And power was given unto THEM over a 4th part of the earth.

You are reading this as if it said, "and power was given unto HIM..."  (the forth rider)

The Greek is αὐτοῖς and in almost every verse it is translated THEM. This is proven to be the right translation for the Sword, Hunger, and Death that is written next. 

Context iamlamad defines who "them" are. "Them", are Hell and Death that comprise the fourth of the earth's nations under the fourth horseman. These are the same hell with whom Israeli's will have made a covenant, and death with whom Israeli's will have made an agreement. 

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

[The_Truth_Seeker]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:16 PM, luigi said:

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

The thing is, the reference to the "beasts of the earth", this could have  a connection to vaccines (have a read what goes into vaccines), or perhaps related to flu like diseases from animals that get passed onto humans. Maybe it a combination of both. If a human eats an animal, but the animal was ill (for example has swine flu) then it stands to reason the person will get sick.

Throughout history, these are you three ways in which people have died on a large scale - wars, famine and diseases.

Anything to do with medical sector is beyond me, but one thing I do know is that there is more profit to be made from people that are unhealthy and ill.

 

 

 

 

[The Light]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 

Seal 1 is the church (white to represent righteousness).
 

Or we can look in Matthew 24 and realize that seal 1 is a false Christ, a counterfeit Christ.

And look, Jesus and John agree on end times perfectly. No imagination necessary.

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, The Light said:

Or we can look in Matthew 24 and realize that seal 1 is a false Christ, a counterfeit Christ.

And look, Jesus and John agree on end times perfectly. No imagination necessary.

There have been many false Christs over the church age - exactly like Jesus said.

On the other hand, there was only one righteous entity on earth When Jesus ascended back into heaven: the church.

Rev. 5: 

⁵ And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. [Here He prevailed over death: rising from the dead]

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. [Here He ascended back into heaven, having sent Mary away: and as soon as He arrived in heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit down.]

⁷ And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. [WHEN did He get the book?]

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, luigi said:

Context iamlamad defines who "them" are. "Them", are Hell and Death that comprise the fourth of the earth's nations under the fourth horseman. These are the same hell with whom Israeli's will have made a covenant, and death with whom Israeli's will have made an agreement. 

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Isaiah 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

And power was given unto them ... to kill with sword [who was given the sword?], and with hunger [who was to bring famine or hunger], and with death [who was titled: "death?"]

As usual, we will continue to disagree.

[luigi]

13 hours ago, The_Truth_Seeker said:

 

The thing is, the reference to the "beasts of the earth", this could have  a connection to vaccines (have a read what goes into vaccines), or perhaps related to flu like diseases from animals that get passed onto humans. Maybe it a combination of both. If a human eats an animal, but the animal was ill (for example has swine flu) then it stands to reason the person will get sick.

Throughout history, these are you three ways in which people have died on a large scale - wars, famine and diseases.

Anything to do with medical sector is beyond me, but one thing I do know is that there is more profit to be made from people that are unhealthy and ill.

 

 

 

 

Good morning The-Truth-Seeker,

Have you ever seen on television, or heard someone refer to another individual as a beast? It usually describes someone with a very rough character. So do some references to beasts in the bible refer to individuals' with very rough characteristics. How do beasts in Ezekiel 14:15, pass through a land and make it desolate, if these are just animals and not very mean individuals? Who are the evil beasts in Ezekiel 5:17 who shall bereave Israel, animals or very mean individuals? Who in Jeremiah 50:39 are the wild beasts of the desert who join up with the wild beasts of the islands to dwell in destroyed Babylon? Who are the wild beasts of the islands in Isaiah 13:22 who shall cry in their desolate houses in Babylon? What is the spoil of the beasts that make people afraid in Habakkuk 2:17, if these beasts are just animals? There are many more references to beasts in the bible that refer to rough individuals, including those under the fourth horseman in Revelation 6:8.

 

Ezekiel 14:15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:

Ezekiel 5:17 So will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee: and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the Lord have spoken it.

Jeremiah 50:39 Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation.

Isaiah 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Habakkuk 2:17 For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.

 Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.