JAG** Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, abcdef said: Peter preached to people from "every nation under heaven" Acts 2:5. Paul preached to "every creature" Col 1:23. These fulfilled the prophecy by Jesus in Matt 28, and Matt 24:14. The "end" that comes after the fulfillment is the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Thanks for your comments. I do not have any desire to argue the point with you --- I will merely tell you what my position is. Also , , I do understand your views. However, I am a Postmillennialist and I am expecting the following: Here is an excellent definition of Postmillennialism: "Postmillennialism holds that the Lord Jesus Christ established His kingdom on earth through His preaching and redemptive work in the first century and that He equips His church with the gospel, empowers her by the Holy Spirit, and charges her with the Great Commission to disciple all nations. Postmillennialism expects that eventually the vast majority of men living will be saved. Increasing gospel success will gradually produce a time in history prior to Christ's return in which faith, righteousness, peace, and prosperity will prevail in the affairs of men and nations. After an extensive era of such conditions the Lord will return visibly, bodily, and gloriously, to end history with the general resurrection and the final Judgment after which the eternal order follows." ___ Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry. Christianity will slowly Christianize the world. This does not mean that every single person will be saved. Postmillennialism is not Universalism. It means rather that the human race, as a race, will be saved. God's Human Race Project will not end in defeat. ___________ But all that is for a different thread. JAG Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I don't disagree with your premise, there is no specific statement that the man of lawlessness spoken of by Paul has anything to do with the beast of Revelation. The connection that most draw from it comes from that passage, in that some to this day defy the very rules of the written word and change the order from what is written. Paul says that the falling away and the man of lawlessness precede the Lord's coming and our gathering to Him. He does not specify any length of time as to when those two things occur, or how close in proximity they are to each other. As far as anti-christs, I would have to disagree with the conclusion that they were limited to the 1st century. I think that trend has continued throughout history and continues to this day based on John's specific details regarding what makes someone an "anti-christ". In more modern times, you should consider someone like Anton Lavey, founder of the Church of Satan, as someone who meets those qualifications. The same would be true of anyone that opposes the Lord. Considering such people do exist, and continue to exist, this also plays a part in Christian's perception of the beast as anti-christ, as the information given in Revelation clearly meets the qualifications set by John. Thanks for your comments. Just a brief statement. There are no Bible verses that connect John's antichrist with: ■ 2 Thess. 2 ■ Daniel 7 ■ Revelation ■ Or any other parts of the Bible. There is not one {1} Bible verse anywhere that makes that connection -- its all based 100% on pure personal interpretative speculation. Best. JAG Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, JAG** said: Thanks for your comments. Just a brief statement. There are no Bible verses that connect John's antichrist with: ■ 2 Thess. 2 ■ Daniel 7 ■ Revelation ■ Or any other parts of the Bible. There is not one {1} Bible verse anywhere that makes that connection -- its all based 100% on pure personal interpretative speculation. Best. JAG Yes, and I agree with you on that, as I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, Alive said: That made me chuckle—thanks. :-) Y'welcome. I like to make folks chuckle --- I'd rather get them to read He Shall Have Dominion --- but I will settle for a chuckle , , lol , , , JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Just now, wingnut- said: Yes, and I agree with you on that, as I said. Thanks. God Bless. JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, JAG** said: Y'welcome. I like to make folks chuckle --- I'd rather get them to read He Shall Have Dominion --- but I will settle for a chuckle , , lol , , , JAG Ya I got that along with a wee attempt at manipulation—in good will, of course. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Alive said: Ya I got that along with a wee attempt at manipulation—in good will, of course. :-) A very wee bit. 3% manipulation and 97% joking :-) JAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.54 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I received it as transmitted...the antennae is intact. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG** Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 541 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 207 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/06/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I don't disagree with your premise, there is no specific statement that the man of lawlessness spoken of by Paul has anything to do with the beast of Revelation. The connection that most draw from it comes from that passage, in that some to this day defy the very rules of the written word and change the order from what is written. Paul says that the falling away and the man of lawlessness precede the Lord's coming and our gathering to Him. He does not specify any length of time as to when those two things occur, or how close in proximity they are to each other. As far as anti-christs, I would have to disagree with the conclusion that they were limited to the 1st century. I think that trend has continued throughout history and continues to this day based on John's specific details regarding what makes someone an "anti-christ". In more modern times, you should consider someone like Anton Lavey, founder of the Church of Satan, as someone who meets those qualifications. The same would be true of anyone that opposes the Lord. Considering such people do exist, and continue to exist, this also plays a part in Christian's perception of the beast as anti-christ, as the information given in Revelation clearly meets the qualifications set by John. "The same would be true of anyone that opposes the Lord."___Wingnut Wingnut, Thank you for pointing that out. JAG Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted July 29, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted July 29, 2020 16 minutes ago, JAG** said: Thanks for your comments. I do not have any desire to argue the point with you --- I will merely tell you what my position is. Also , , I do understand your views. However, I am a Postmillennialist and I am expecting the following: Here is an excellent definition of Postmillennialism: "Postmillennialism holds that the Lord Jesus Christ established His kingdom on earth through His preaching and redemptive work in the first century and that He equips His church with the gospel, empowers her by the Holy Spirit, and charges her with the Great Commission to disciple all nations. Postmillennialism expects that eventually the vast majority of men living will be saved. Increasing gospel success will gradually produce a time in history prior to Christ's return in which faith, righteousness, peace, and prosperity will prevail in the affairs of men and nations. After an extensive era of such conditions the Lord will return visibly, bodily, and gloriously, to end history with the general resurrection and the final Judgment after which the eternal order follows." ___ Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry. Christianity will slowly Christianize the world. This does not mean that every single person will be saved. Postmillennialism is not Universalism. It means rather that the human race, as a race, will be saved. God's Human Race Project will not end in defeat. ___________ But all that is for a different thread. JAG Jag, I will agree with your statement on post mill., mostly. I agree with your statement that Nero was an Antichrist, but he was not the only one. The problem that is seen with Nero being the Antichrist in a "exclusive of all others" viewpoint is when you try to place the idea into the Rev 17 "heads". If Nero is one of the heads, who are the others? If you say that they are individuals, then the end of the beast happened long ago with the last 8th head. ------ Is there nothing after 70 AD concerning the beast nation and it's rule over the people of Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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