Proposition: There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

[JAG**]

Says Dr. Loraine Boettner

 

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . .

which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in

the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader

search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.

 

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction,

without so much as one clear supporting verse in all Scripture."

The Millennium, Dr. Loraine Boettner, page 210

 

The Bible mentions Antichrist in only the following 4 verses:

1 John 2:18

1John 2:22

1 John 4:3

2 John 7

 

There is no  Bible-Verse argument for a future Antichrist because . . . .

There is no  Bible-Verse argument that connects these 4 verses with

anything said in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation.

 

For example:

There is no evidence that the "man of sin" or the "man of lawlessness"

mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:3 is connected in any way with the antichrists

mentioned in the 4 verses in John's epistles.

 

Also note the following from John's epistles that mention antichrist:

 

(1) Antichrist is applied to many persons existing in the first century

1 John 2:18 "even now has there arisen many antichrists"

In the next verse, 1 John 2:19, John identifies the antichrists as

first century Christian apostates "They went out from us, but they

did not really belong to us."

 

(2) In 1 John 2:22 the antichrist is identified as those who deny the

Father and the Son. "This is the antichrist, even he that denies the

Father and the Son." The antichrists were first century apostates.

 

(3) In 1 John 4:3 the antichrist is identified as every one who does

not acknowledge Jesus. It is then said that antichrist "even now is

already in the world" (of the first century).

 

(4) 2 John 7 says that the antichrist is many deceivers that have gone

out in the world (of the first century.) Therefore this verse says that

there are many antichrists, not just one antichrist.

 

What say you?

Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG**

[other one]

i agree.  people should be talking about beasts...   if there is one beast we would tag as THE Antichrist that should be agreed to at the beginning of any discussion to cut down on scripture abuse.

[JAG**]

Some more thoughts on There Is No Bible-Verse Argument For A Future Antichrist.

The antichrists mentioned in John's epistles were in John NEAR FUTURE and NOT

in John's FAR OFF FUTURE.

Pure speculation about John's "future" yet to come antichrist is NOT a COMPELLING
argument because the Biblical text nowhere in John's epistles gives any indication that
John was saying that the antichrist was in John's  FAR OFF FUTURE.

That means that John's antichrist appeared in John's NEAR FUTURE and in fact  John's

epistles clearly support the NEAR FUTURE interpretation.

Evidence to support the NEAR FUTURE interpretation  is the clear statements in John's epistles
that certainly and COMPELLINGLY identify John's antichrists as JOHN'S PRESENT DAY
Christian apostates. John clearly said the following about them, and about his present
time of the first century:

(1) "this is the last hour" (written over 2000 years ago and clearly not a reference to the year 2020)
"this is the last hour" is a clear reference to the time when John wrote that, namely the first century.

(2) "even NOW many antichrists have come." (John's antichrist were there in the first century)

(3) "they went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, For if they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us, but their going showed that none of them belonged to us"

In (3) up there John is clearly speaking about his time of the first century and clearly does NOT
have reference to some future time period.

So?

So the Bible is CLEAR that John's antichrists were first century Christian apostates.


JAG

Edited July 29, 2020 by JAG**

[JAG**]

There is no Bible-Verse evidence that connects the "man of sin" 

mentioned in 2 Thess. 2 to John's antichrists in John's epistles.

Many orthodox Bible believing Christian scholars disagree that there is
to be a future "man of sin."

Many reputable orthodox Bible believing born again Christian scholars
identify the "man of sin" mentioned in 2 Thess. 2 as Paul referring to
Nero Caesar who lived in the first century.

Christendom has not settled on who the "man of sin" was.

There is NOT a Christian consensus that the "man of sin" refers to
a future individual who will appear in the end times.

Regarding Paul's mention of the "man of sin" 2 Thess 2 is a very

difficult passage to interpret:

Start quote.
We come now to another difficult eschatological passage, one rivaling Daniel 9 in the intensity
of its interpretative controversy: 2 Thessalonians 2. This famous passage contains Paul's
reference to the "man of lawlessness" (Nestle's text) or "man of sin" (Majority text.)

Scholars note this passage's exceptional difficulty. Augustine writes regarding a certain portion
of the passage: "I confess that I am entirely ignorant of what he means to say."

New Testament Greek scholar Vincent omits interpreting the passage in his four volume lexical
commentary: "I attempt no interpretation of this passage as a whole, which I do not understand."

Renowned Greek linguist A. T. Robertson despairs of the task of interpreting this passage because
it is "in such vague form that we can hardly clear it up."

Leon Morris urges "care" in handling this "notoriously difficult passage."

F.F. Bruce notes that "there are few New Testament passages that can boast such a variety of
interpretations as this."

Even some Dispensationalists admit that it is "an extremely puzzling passage of Scripture that has
been a thorn in the flesh of many an expositor."
End quote.

Source:
He Shall Have Dominion
by Dr. Kenneth Gentry,
page386

_________________


So?

So one might "go slow" in claiming certainty with regard to interpreting 2 Thessalonians chapter 2

Gentry concludes "that the "man of lawlessness" was Nero Caesar, who was also the "beast" of
Revelation." --- and he presents his arguments to support his conclusion.

Dr. Kenneth Gentry makes a very convincing argument that the "man of sin" was Nero Caesar
who persecuted the Christians of the first century.


JAG
 

[JAG**]

 There Is No Bible-Verse Evidence That Connects the "Beast"

of the book of Revelation with John's antichrists in John's epistles.

Who Was The Beast Of the Book Of Revelation?
_________________

{The following was taken from
He Shall Have Dominion.
by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry Jr.
It is not a word for word quote but the substance of this below
is Dr. Gentry's. I typed it in. It is not on the web. Footnote at
the bottom}
_________________

Who Was The Beast Of Revelation?
Start quote.
The Beast is a well known Christian Eschatological character.
Premillennialists incorrectly believe that the Beast is to appear
in the future. This is false. The Beast was a 1st Century character
that appeared in the 1st Century and will never appear again in
human history.

The Apostle John wrote the book of Revelation.

The Time Of The Beast.
John clearly expects his prophesied events to take
place in his day, the 1st Century.

John writes:
"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave
him to show his servants what must soon take place."
Revelation 1:1

"Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the
prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near"
Revelation 22:10

"must soon take place"
"the time is near"

In light of Revelation's significance to its first-century
audience, the Beast must be someone relevant to
that first-century audience.

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave
him to show his servants what must soon take place.
He made it known by sending his angel to his servant
John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is,
the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of
this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it
and take to heart what is written in it, because the
time is near." Revelation 1:1-4


“Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the
seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum,
Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
Rev. 1:11
{These were churches of the 1st century that received
this letter of Revelation and the warnings about the
"Beast" were addressed to THOSE 1st Century churches
who had to deal with the "Beast" who was a 1st Century
evil character that was to do harm to THEM.}

_____________________


Revelation 13 presents the Beast as a horrible and
powerful foe attempting to destroy God's people.

Sometimes Revelation presents the Beast as a
kingdom and sometimes as an individua leader
of that kingdom.

In some places the Beast has seven heads which
are seven kings collectively considered.

In Revelation 13:1 John notes that he saw a Beast
coming up out of the sea having 10 horns and
seven heads.
Revelation 17:10 specifically says that the seven
heads represent seven kings.

Thus the Beast is presented as a kingdom.
But kingdoms have representatives. This is why
John also speaks of the Beast as an individual.

John urges his readers to calculate the number of
the Beast which is the number of a man Revelation
13:18

The Beast's General Identity is the first-century
Roman Empire and NOT a "revived Roman Empire"
as imagined by Dispensationalism.

According to Revelation 17:9 the Beast's seven heads
represent "seven mountains." The seven mountains
symbolize Rome. Rome is the one city in history
distinguished and recognized by its seven
mountains.

___________________


The Beast's Specific Identify.
The Beast in his personal identity is Nero Caesar. He
and he alone fits the bill as the personal and specific
expression of the Beast. This vile character fulfills all
the requirements of the text of Revelation.

First the number of the Beast. In Revelation 13:18
the number of the Beast is 666. The usefulness of
this number lies in the fact that in the first-century
alphabets serve as both phonetic symbols and
as arithmetical values. Significantly a common
spelling of Nero Caesar's name is Nrwn Qsr,
which provides the numerical value of 666

Second the Textual Variant. See Dr. Gentry's
book for this explanation. Page 381

Third the Beastly Image.
Revelation 13 both calls and portrays the one
behind the 666 riddle as a "beast.". The term
"beast" can easily symbolize persons with a
beastly nature. Almost all scholars agree that
Nero Caesar possessed a beastly nature.. Nero
Caesar is even hated and feared by his own
countrymen, as ancient Roman historians agree.
The pagan writer Apollinius of Tyana, a
contemporary of Nero Caesar, calls him a
"beast."

Fourth, the war with the saints.
John's Beast will make war with the saints
and overcome them.{Rev. 13:7} In fact
Nero Caesar conducts a blasphemous war
with the saints for a specific period of 42 months {Rev. 13:5}
Nero begins his persecution of Christians in A.D. 64.
The persecution finally ends when Nero Caesar dies
on June 8, A.D.68 forty-two months later, but for a few days.
{Point of interest: Nero's own end comes by the sword.}
Conclusion: The Beast of Revelation was the beastly
Nero Caesar of the 1st Century.
End quote.

Source
He Shall Have Dominion
by Dr. Kenneth L. Gentry Jr.
pages 379 - 381


 

[JAG**]

Dr. Benjamin B. Warfield, one of Christendom's most accomplished and
distinguished theologians, provided 3 helpful insights on John's antichrists.


{1} John takes his antichrists out of the future and puts them into the
present time of the 1st Century.
See below where
1 John 2:18
1 John 2:22
1 John 4:3
2 John 7
, , , are quoted.


______________



{2} John expands his antichrists from being one individual to being
a multitude {"many antichrists"}

1 John 2:18-19
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the
antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is
how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they
did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they
would have remained with us; but their going showed that none
of them belonged to us.

__________________




{3} John reduces his antichrists from being only a person to being a heresy,
that is to say, a heretical movement of the 1st Century

1 John 4:1-6
"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether
they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the
world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that
acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but
every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the
spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is
already in the world.

You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the
one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from
the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the
world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God
listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us.
This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of
falsehood."

_____________

1 John 2:22-23
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such
a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one
who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the
Son has the Father also.


2 John 7
"I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus
Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such
person is the deceiver and the antichrist



1 John 2:18 and 1 John 4:1-6 and 1 John 2:22-23 and 2 John 7 describes
a 1st Century heretical movement, and does NOT predict any future antichrist.

___________


There are no BIBLE VERSES that connect John's antichrists to any other
part of the Bible. Any connection made is pure interpretative speculation.


JAG
 

[Justin Adams]

Very interesting and concomitant with my reserved views after quite a bit of study. I will sit back and see what happens. Hundreds if not thousands of books and YouTube videos may have to be abandoned entirely...

[Alive]

This and other recent propositions are of interest to me for a specific reason, which I will explain at some point.

[JAG**]

3 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Very interesting and concomitant with my reserved views after quite

a bit of study. I will sit back and see what happens. Hundreds if not

thousands of books and YouTube videos may have to be abandoned entirely...

Laugh Out Loud , , , ,"I will sit back and see what happens"____Justin Adams 

You can expect huge Data Dumps from favorite "end times" web sites and

possibly  1/2 of Bible Gateway and Bible Hub put up here in this thread. /Big Grin

___________

I doubt this thread will reduce the number of books and videos on You Tube, but

you never know?  , , , LOL , , ,

___________

 

Thanks for your comments Justin.  I might just sit back myself, and see what happens.

This thread may die still born, you never know.  But it is  a very interesting subject and

I hope it makes a contribution to further personal study   -- this was my main motive in

writing the Opening Post and the follow-up posts --- not so much to argue about

it -- but rather to  encourage personal study of the subject. 

For example, anyone interested in a personal  study can start here:

The Millennium

by Dr. Loraine Boettner

410 pages

Best.

JAG

[Justin Adams]

16 minutes ago, JAG** said:

Best.

Yes brother we shall see. I would suggest you not be alarmed if no one takes the bait. Sometimes one is ignored, the hope being that maybe you will go away, or just dissolve. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Justin Adams