Is it it ok for Christians to protest against government?

[JohnD]

Don't listen to the propaganda of the media outlets radio personality Michael Savage

named Pravda and Izvestia long before Trump decided to run for office.  Our American way

of life is under siege.

And I for one did not pledge to lay down my life for my country as a Navy sailor only to hand it

over to these losers!

[JohnD]

Black lives matter.

Black people have been mistreated and are not given

common courtesies caucasians expect to receive in life. 

I grew up in South St. Pete Florida. I learned early on that

the black community treats white minorities in their neighborhood

a hell of a lot better than whites treat black minorities.  

If you belong there, you are safe. Our home was safe. Day or night we

could walk to the store or to the home of a friend (male or female) and

not be bothered.

I was gratified in the military to learn the only distinction that mattered was

one's rank.

I've always stood against racial injustice or jokes or anything derogatory.

Mixed marriages etc are THEIR business not mine.

They are to be treated with as much dignity and respect as anyone else!

I have a black supervisor and a black Postmaster I proudly work for.

I used to carry mail in South Fort Worth, Texas. Poly (polytechnic district). 

That was years after I left St. Pete and I even forgot the law of the hood...

A black young lady coworker asked me the second day I transferred in, "You scared?"

"Uh huh," I grunted. "Does it show?"

"It does." she said. "Just remember, everyone looks out their doors and windows all the time...

you are the man that brings the checks. If anyone messes with you the whole neighborhood will

pile out on them."

I wasn't afraid from that moment on. There is a code to live by there. It's all about survival.

Mind your own business. Even though you see everything you saw nothing.

It still rattled me sometimes to deliver mail stepping over chalk outlines where a dead body had been the night

before. And I remember the prison like High School  with barbed wire / security gates at each door with metal detectors 

and permanently assigned police officers... but I also remember BBQ places on every other corner and Churches on every

other corner between. I never ate so much fresh cracklin' (pork rinds) and BBQ in my life! The people were so generous. 

I recall Christian conservative Clarence Mason Weaver pointing out that as a black man even if dressed in a three piece suit

he would be under extra scrutiny by shop owners who typically never gave white people such distrust. 

We still have a ways to go. But we have come very far.

All lives matter. Jesus died for each and every one of us.

And we must learn to do what my Mother and Father taught us as young children

Don't resist arrest.

And we must insure those arrested are not railroaded.

That's a systemic matter.

Cops have to try to maintain the peace when things could get out of hand at any moment. Theirs is not an enviable job.

Bullies / abusers in blue must be singled out and dismissed or charged for their crime and betrayal of public trust. 

If I submit to arrest... you are responsible for my safety and well being, officer sir / ma'am. Failure to insure both is

as criminal as it gets. 

God bless the law abiding law enforcement! 

I don't believe the protestors today by and large give a crap about the plight of black people.

If they did, they would volunteer their time to be advocates for individuals under arrest to be sure they are treated well

and know their rights. That's where those loud mouths could make a difference. 

Jesus said feed cloths and heal not burn tear down and destroy.

 

[LPTSTR]

Hi!

As I wrote in my first post, I am not talking about USA. Looks like some just read the title and then hit the reply button without further reading. But I am happy to see that some have actually read it. I was interested to know in general about country where governments treat their people poorly but where any protests officially illegal. One example was Belarus but of course there other countries as well so lets just assume that there is some country X where protests are illegal. What should Christians do in that case?

On 8/27/2020 at 5:07 PM, Who me said:

The government in Belarus is illegal, it has not held open elections ever, so Christians are justified in protesting against it.

 

Our concerns is for justice for everyone  what ever the race, tribe, class, colour or wealth and if that involves opposing the government we can do it.

 

Read what James says true religion is, read the repeated demand by God on the Israelites about justice. 

 

Yes we are to live quite lives etc, tat does not mean sticking our heads in a hole and ignoring the needs of there.

While the fact that Belarus government is illegal kinda justifies it morally, where does exactly Bible say that government has to be legal in order for Christians to submit to it?

If I look at Rom 13:1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
Then to me it does not leave room for interpretation that there are some authorities that have not been established by God. But from the other hand we have governments such as North Korea, China, Belarus. That kind of makes me ask: Is Bible lying when it says that all governments are established by God?  Or how to interpret it then if there are some governments  that are not established by God?

 

On 8/27/2020 at 6:10 PM, Billiards Ball said:

Caesar gets things, so does God. If a government puts out a law to dishonor God (forced abortion, for example) you may disobey it. And if you suffer for honoring God against a wicked law, God sees, intervenes and rewards.

That is true. But lets assume that you are not directly required to go against God's commandments, but it is just some government that treats people brutally and that has made law that forbids any protests. Should Christians obey that law then?

On 8/29/2020 at 6:32 PM, francesco said:

I myself have wondered about this on occasion.  After consideration and some research I have come to a settled interpretation concerning this question.  It is my belief that when we are cautioned to exercise obedience to our governmental leaders it is under the assumption that they are acting in accordance with biblical principles of morality and ethics.  To this degree they have been appointed by God to maintain a moral order consistent with God's commandments.  Of course, we know that far too often government officials do not act in accordance with biblical moral/ethical standards.  In these cases we must always follow our informed conscience to assure that God's directives are being met.  His wisdom must rule and not man's.  Keeping in mind the basic two commandments to love God and to love one's neighbor as oneself should serve as a reliable guide for determining the right course.  Biblical interpretation can often be a bear to deal with.  The need to consider relevant understanding of temporality, linguistics, cultural, and textual contexts makes accurate interpretation a thing not easily possessed.  Scholars spend their entire professional lives trying to get it right.   

Where from the bible does this idea come from? For example roman government was kinda illegal government in a sense that it occupied Israel's territory but Bible still teaches that they should submit to authorities.

On 8/29/2020 at 10:18 PM, LonerAndy said:

So when we are talking about "Protesting" we need to distinguish between different things.

Speaking against injustice, and speaking against a ruler, are two different things.

Additionally there is a slight difference between the biblical time and today, namely that we have a say in who is over us.

So to some extent, we are accountable for our leadership, and I would even say we as Christians have a duty to express factual concerns about our leadership.

Now I should mention that I fully believe we need to listen twice as much as we speak.  I see a lot of Christians who like to spout off, before they know that facts, and I'm speaking from experience.  I did that for years of my life, only to find out months or years later, that what I said was complete garbage, and regretting propagating that garbage.

Back to the point, when you say protesting, there are different versions of "protesting".

It is one thing to protest saying "We have the right to go to church, and it wrong for you to force our churches closed, according to the constitution".

That is protesting an injustice.

It is entirely different, to be protesting a person.  For example protesting "Trump is not my president".

Jesus actually warned against that directly.  Luke Chapter 19, starting in verse 14.

"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' He was made king, however, and returned home. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’ ”

By the way, this blows up the happy warm and fuzzy Jesus preached in American Churches.  Jesus was not warm and fuzzy.  He was the king in the parable, and at the end, he kills his enemies.

But back to the point, we should not be attacking those in power, regardless of how much they may or may not deserve it.  I was horrified by Christians attacking Obama.

I made a point, and I think all should, that I opposed the policies.  I thought Obama Care was terrible, and it was.  But that does not mean I should be attacking Obama personally.

So I hope that helps.  There is a huge difference between attacking the leader themselves, and attacking the bad policies.

By the way, I also put this in the context of the Church.  People should be very slow to attack the preacher or pastor.   If you think a particular policy of the church needs changed, that's fine.  But I would be very slow to speak against the leadership of the church.

Not to say you never confront the leadership, but it should be a last option, not a first.  And it should be done privately, not in public.

That's how I have understood it.  Therefore Biblical conclusion would be that in case of Belarus Christians should stay at home? Not that I currently see it otherwise but just want to hear others.

[Who me]

On 9/1/2020 at 7:22 PM, LPTSTR said:

Is Bible lying when it says that all governments are established by God? 

Peter and the apostles answered this, they were told by the God established rulers not to preach the gospel. They replied, judge for yourselves should we obey God or men. They continued to preach the gospel.

We obey the government untill it tries to stop us serving God.

If we have freedom to vote, to take part in elections, then those elections, those governments should be fair if they are not we can protest.

 

If you are going to live as a Christian, spreading the gospel, living by biblical standards, are you prepared for the consequences?

Christians and non Christians have lost there jobs for simple telling the truth, let alone talking about Jesus or biblical morality.

As society gets more godless being a Christian, a Bible believing Christian will not be popular and will cost people there job, get them imprisoned etc.

Are you prepared?

[David1701]

On 8/26/2020 at 7:33 PM, LPTSTR said:

Hi!

I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply?

Rom 13: 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.  2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

As many of us may have heard from news about Belarus - people are out there protesting against President. I am interested to know if Christians who live in Belarus are allowed to go there? Romans 13 and also other parts in the Bible tell us to submit to authorities which means we as Christians have to obey the law. Now if Christians happen to live in country where protesting is illegal, then according to Bible Christians should obey that law and stay home.  Therefore would it be allowed for Christians to protest in the Belarus? From the one hand Belarus government has been quite hard on it's people but from the other hand no where in the Bible are any exceptions for cases where government is too bad. And other question I have is is it ok for  Christians to call Belarus government corrupt? Because if governments are established by God then you basically blaspheme God by calling what He did bad.

 

Would be interested to hear your opinions.

We are to submit to the law of the land, unless that would entail sinning against the Lord.

We are not called to be political protesters, but gospel preachers.  If the government does something evil, then, by preaching what the Bible says, we will, in any case, be opposing it.

[Leenaa]

On 8/27/2020 at 1:59 AM, BeauJangles said:

For instance, chanting protests against unwed mothers going into a family planning facility for the purpose of ending their expectancy of birth. I've seen shameful film footage of pro-life people, most of them women themselves taunting shamefully with their signs, slogans, singing, "guilt-tripping", yes, even condemning prayers. It's blatantly disgraceful, personally speaking. 

To be perfectly honest, it's embarrassing for me seeing the "Moral Majority" behaving in this sort of demeanor. It makes me think, "Did they see any souls saved trying to change already determined minds?" I seriously doubt it. God convicts, but He does not shame. This is a poor means of attempting evangelism.

Interesting example. I once had a abortion, in other words, had My child killed. I was alone att the time and the law protected My decision. Today I wish that someone had stood up and warned me about what has about to happen. I wish someone had showed me and helped me focus onthe child. I may or may not havet changed My mind, but I would have been warned. Abortion is a sin, a terrible wrong and Christians need to speak Up and warn about it. Why? Because No sin No forgiveness and that leaves millions of women in a terribly dark place.

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, Leenaa said:

Interesting example. I once had a abortion, in other words, had My child killed. I was alone att the time and the law protected My decision. Today I wish that someone had stood up and warned me about what has about to happen. I wish someone had showed me and helped me focus onthe child. I may or may not havet changed My mind, but I would have been warned. Abortion is a sin, a terrible wrong and Christians need to speak Up and warn about it. Why? Because No sin No forgiveness and that leaves millions of women in a terribly dark place.

You now have a Mission - so your child's death was not in vain. God chooses many paths for us to follow. Then it is up to us to act. I admire your courage to post what you said. Other women need to hear your heartfelt mourning. You have a WITNESS...

[Dennis1209]

On 8/26/2020 at 1:33 PM, LPTSTR said:

Hi!

I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply?

Rom 13: 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.  2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

As many of us may have heard from news about Belarus - people are out there protesting against President. I am interested to know if Christians who live in Belarus are allowed to go there? Romans 13 and also other parts in the Bible tell us to submit to authorities which means we as Christians have to obey the law. Now if Christians happen to live in country where protesting is illegal, then according to Bible Christians should obey that law and stay home.  Therefore would it be allowed for Christians to protest in the Belarus? From the one hand Belarus government has been quite hard on it's people but from the other hand no where in the Bible are any exceptions for cases where government is too bad. And other question I have is is it ok for  Christians to call Belarus government corrupt? Because if governments are established by God then you basically blaspheme God by calling what He did bad.

 

Would be interested to hear your opinions.

I'm going to take a different stance from some on here. It applied to Israel's history and our own. When in the history of mankind was freedom free; without the shedding of blood and death, from the shackles of evil, tyranny, dictatorship and oppression? Proverbs 29:2 (KJV) When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

In context to Romans 13:1-2 you quoted; as Paul Harvey would say,"and now, the rest of the story". Romans 13:3 (KJV) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: [emphasis added]

What happens when rulers [governments] become and are the terror's to good works and are evil? The Lord didn't ordain evil government or leaders. 

And when the 'government' dictates church doors should be closed and Christian's not congregate? Hum, this is starting to sound familiar? I could write many more paragraphs but, you know where I'm heading as a patriot and veteran. 

[JohnR7]

On 8/26/2020 at 6:47 PM, johnthebaptist said:

I think there was a law requiring people to return slaves to their owners in the period precding the Civil War in the United States. I think the right thing to do would have been to ignore the law.

The law in the Bible says that you are to release slaves after 7 years. If they are foreign born then every 49 years. Slavery was not to pass from generation to generation they way it did in the south. 

[johnthebaptist]

5 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

The law in the Bible says that you are to release slaves after 7 years. If they are foreign born then every 49 years. Slavery was not to pass from generation to generation they way it did in the south. 

We Christians tend not to observe all the decrees, statutes, and ordinances the Lord placed on the shoulders of the Jews. The question then arises: How do we know which things in the Old Testament apply to Christians, and which do not?