LPTSTR Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 33 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 149 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/24/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) Hi! I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply? Rom 13: 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. As many of us may have heard from news about Belarus - people are out there protesting against President. I am interested to know if Christians who live in Belarus are allowed to go there? Romans 13 and also other parts in the Bible tell us to submit to authorities which means we as Christians have to obey the law. Now if Christians happen to live in country where protesting is illegal, then according to Bible Christians should obey that law and stay home. Therefore would it be allowed for Christians to protest in the Belarus? From the one hand Belarus government has been quite hard on it's people but from the other hand no where in the Bible are any exceptions for cases where government is too bad. And other question I have is is it ok for Christians to call Belarus government corrupt? Because if governments are established by God then you basically blaspheme God by calling what He did bad. Would be interested to hear your opinions. Edited August 26, 2020 by LPTSTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted August 26, 2020 4 hours ago, LPTSTR said: Hi! I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply? Rom 13: 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. As many of us may have heard from news about Belarus - people are out there protesting against President. I am interested to know if Christians who live in Belarus are allowed to go there? Romans 13 and also other parts in the Bible tell us to submit to authorities which means we as Christians have to obey the law. Now if Christians happen to live in country where protesting is illegal, then according to Bible Christians should obey that law and stay home. Therefore would it be allowed for Christians to protest in the Belarus? From the one hand Belarus government has been quite hard on it's people but from the other hand no where in the Bible are any exceptions for cases where government is too bad. And other question I have is is it ok for Christians to call Belarus government corrupt? Because if governments are established by God then you basically blaspheme God by calling what He did bad. Would be interested to hear your opinions. I think there was a law requiring people to return slaves to their owners in the period precding the Civil War in the United States. I think the right thing to do would have been to ignore the law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozarkbound Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 277 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 164 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/16/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2020 Since our constitution gives us the right to peaceably assemble., I do not think it is sin to protest, as long as it is peaceful. The primary authority over the U.S. is our constitution. Every government official and military person takes a vow to uphold it. We are not under the authority of politicians. They are our representatives, not our rulers. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted August 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.92 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) Is it it ok for Christians to protest against government? 5 hours ago, LPTSTR said: I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply? I don't feel it is unbiblical to express our discontent if we as believers feel are placed into a compromise of faith in Christ. But, open dissent and defiance with other than a peaceful and prayerful gathering are only making a bad witness to the world. Let me give you one example. I'm really tiring of the Covid-19 virus issue and mass street protests. For instance, chanting protests against unwed mothers going into a family planning facility for the purpose of ending their expectancy of birth. I've seen shameful film footage of pro-life people, most of them women themselves taunting shamefully with their signs, slogans, singing, "guilt-tripping", yes, even condemning prayers. It's blatantly disgraceful, personally speaking. To be perfectly honest, it's embarrassing for me seeing the "Moral Majority" behaving in this sort of demeanor. It makes me think, "Did they see any souls saved trying to change already determined minds?" I seriously doubt it. God convicts, but He does not shame. This is a poor means of attempting evangelism. Now, allow me to say one more thing here expressing what I'm saying. For the record: I am adamantly against abortion and very pro-adoption. Give life a chance for real love. Edited August 27, 2020 by BeauJangles 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted August 27, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,300 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2020 19 hours ago, LPTSTR said: Would be interested to hear your opinions. The government in Belarus is illegal, it has not held open elections ever, so Christians are justified in protesting against it. Our concerns is for justice for everyone what ever the race, tribe, class, colour or wealth and if that involves opposing the government we can do it. Read what James says true religion is, read the repeated demand by God on the Israelites about justice. Yes we are to live quite lives etc, tat does not mean sticking our heads in a hole and ignoring the needs of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted August 27, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2020 20 hours ago, LPTSTR said: Hi! I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply? Rom 13: 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. As many of us may have heard from news about Belarus - people are out there protesting against President. I am interested to know if Christians who live in Belarus are allowed to go there? Romans 13 and also other parts in the Bible tell us to submit to authorities which means we as Christians have to obey the law. Now if Christians happen to live in country where protesting is illegal, then according to Bible Christians should obey that law and stay home. Therefore would it be allowed for Christians to protest in the Belarus? From the one hand Belarus government has been quite hard on it's people but from the other hand no where in the Bible are any exceptions for cases where government is too bad. And other question I have is is it ok for Christians to call Belarus government corrupt? Because if governments are established by God then you basically blaspheme God by calling what He did bad. Would be interested to hear your opinions. Caesar gets things, so does God. If a government puts out a law to dishonor God (forced abortion, for example) you may disobey it. And if you suffer for honoring God against a wicked law, God sees, intervenes and rewards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francesco Posted August 29, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 56 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/16/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2020 I myself have wondered about this on occasion. After consideration and some research I have come to a settled interpretation concerning this question. It is my belief that when we are cautioned to exercise obedience to our governmental leaders it is under the assumption that they are acting in accordance with biblical principles of morality and ethics. To this degree they have been appointed by God to maintain a moral order consistent with God's commandments. Of course, we know that far too often government officials do not act in accordance with biblical moral/ethical standards. In these cases we must always follow our informed conscience to assure that God's directives are being met. His wisdom must rule and not man's. Keeping in mind the basic two commandments to love God and to love one's neighbor as oneself should serve as a reliable guide for determining the right course. Biblical interpretation can often be a bear to deal with. The need to consider relevant understanding of temporality, linguistics, cultural, and textual contexts makes accurate interpretation a thing not easily possessed. Scholars spend their entire professional lives trying to get it right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonerAndy Posted August 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 693 Content Per Day: 0.42 Reputation: 396 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 2:33 PM, LPTSTR said: Hi! I have wondered to what extent does Romans 13:1-2 and other verses from the Bible that tell Christians to submit to authorities apply? Rom 13: 1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. As many of us may have heard from news about Belarus - people are out there protesting against President. I am interested to know if Christians who live in Belarus are allowed to go there? Romans 13 and also other parts in the Bible tell us to submit to authorities which means we as Christians have to obey the law. Now if Christians happen to live in country where protesting is illegal, then according to Bible Christians should obey that law and stay home. Therefore would it be allowed for Christians to protest in the Belarus? From the one hand Belarus government has been quite hard on it's people but from the other hand no where in the Bible are any exceptions for cases where government is too bad. And other question I have is is it ok for Christians to call Belarus government corrupt? Because if governments are established by God then you basically blaspheme God by calling what He did bad. Would be interested to hear your opinions. So when we are talking about "Protesting" we need to distinguish between different things. Speaking against injustice, and speaking against a ruler, are two different things. Additionally there is a slight difference between the biblical time and today, namely that we have a say in who is over us. So to some extent, we are accountable for our leadership, and I would even say we as Christians have a duty to express factual concerns about our leadership. Now I should mention that I fully believe we need to listen twice as much as we speak. I see a lot of Christians who like to spout off, before they know that facts, and I'm speaking from experience. I did that for years of my life, only to find out months or years later, that what I said was complete garbage, and regretting propagating that garbage. Back to the point, when you say protesting, there are different versions of "protesting". It is one thing to protest saying "We have the right to go to church, and it wrong for you to force our churches closed, according to the constitution". That is protesting an injustice. It is entirely different, to be protesting a person. For example protesting "Trump is not my president". Jesus actually warned against that directly. Luke Chapter 19, starting in verse 14. "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' He was made king, however, and returned home. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’ ” By the way, this blows up the happy warm and fuzzy Jesus preached in American Churches. Jesus was not warm and fuzzy. He was the king in the parable, and at the end, he kills his enemies. But back to the point, we should not be attacking those in power, regardless of how much they may or may not deserve it. I was horrified by Christians attacking Obama. I made a point, and I think all should, that I opposed the policies. I thought Obama Care was terrible, and it was. But that does not mean I should be attacking Obama personally. So I hope that helps. There is a huge difference between attacking the leader themselves, and attacking the bad policies. By the way, I also put this in the context of the Church. People should be very slow to attack the preacher or pastor. If you think a particular policy of the church needs changed, that's fine. But I would be very slow to speak against the leadership of the church. Not to say you never confront the leadership, but it should be a last option, not a first. And it should be done privately, not in public. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 The founding fathers of the United States (over 90% of whom were Christian) believed it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted August 31, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2020 If this thread is a round about way of addressing the recent protests... America has thrived on the right to protest. Mostly peaceful... with some destructiveness on both sides of the protest on occasion. But we've always condemned the destructiveness before (no matter who did it). The destruction, looting, mayhem, and even murder that parades around as free speech protests are not protests at all but communist / social attempts at anarchy to bring about revolution like the Bolsheviks did 100 years ago. And it must be stopped at all costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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