DeighAnn Posted September 18, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.61 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, luigi said: I agree DeighAnn, it is a physical death many saint will experience, and not a spiritual death, as many scriptures testify. Hi luigi, I am not sure but am going to say I agree also but that it is to be a spiritual war, more than a physical one the "great falling away" being when most become "dead" not having a clue until they see the true Christ returning realizing they have taken the mark of the beast. How can God tell us it is not "against flesh and blood" if in fact, it MOSTLY is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,796 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 323 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, DeighAnn said: Hi luigi, I am not sure but am going to say I agree also but that it is to be a spiritual war, more than a physical one the "great falling away" being when most become "dead" not having a clue until they see the true Christ returning realizing they have taken the mark of the beast. How can God tell us it is not "against flesh and blood" if in fact, it MOSTLY is? I absolutely agree DeighAnn, that it is going to be a spiritual war, more than a physical one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2020 5 hours ago, iamlamad said: i suppose you will show us what you think... https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/11-33.htm This takes place when the armed forces of the north begin to occupy Jerusalem. https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-13.htm This is what takes place when the second beast begins to practice the authority of the first beast on it behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,637 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 16 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: According to revelation, three days after the beast with ten horns has killed Jerusalems defenders, the resurrection takes place. Are you referring to Rev 11:7-12? I only see the resurrection of the two witnesses at that point. 16 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: What makes you think Jesus will resurrect his witnesses and not destroy the beast at that time? Well, I don't know if that will happen or not. Where the witnesses are recorded in Rev it's not said the beast is destroyed. As far as I can tell the 6th trump is a woe, the 7th trump is a woe and the record of the retaking what I see as the legal deed to the earth and two witnesses is sort of packed in between those two. 16 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: Its like zech 14.The nations attack Jerusalem and take it. At that time those in Judea flee. It is also at that time the Lord stands on the Mt of olives and destroies those who attacked Jerusalem. At the time Jesus stands on the mount I think it's said the people left in Jerusalem flee to the valley created when the mount of Olives splits east to west. That looks quite a bit different to me than fleeing from the A of D. In Zech 14 it's the day of the Lord. At the midpoint when the A of D happens Jesus says there is GT that happens next and only after some time passes (Not 3.5 years) do the signs of His coming appear. 16 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: I don't see in Zech 14 or in Revelation the the nations that attack Jerusalem are allowed to keep it for 42 months after Christ comes. I agree. I'm seeing Zech 14 as the coming of the Lord and the time of the final battle; Armageddon, some time after the A of D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,637 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 20 hours ago, iamlamad said: Does anyone ever pay attention to TIME? People hide in the rocks and caves at the start of the Day of the Lord - 6th seal, which is before the start of the 70th week - 7th seal. The fleeing from the Abomination is at the MIDPOINT of the week, chapter 11, and the fleeing, 12:6. Note carefully, JEWS live in Judea. Yes, a few Christians, but mostly Jews. As I read this it feels jumbled and forced. I think you should take all the evidence into consideration and not ignore Matthew 24 and Mark 13. How does the A of D occur at the midpoint with Lords coming after that, as recorded in the Gospels; but then the Lord comes before the A of D? Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are the outlines for the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The Gospel's record is the preview, the movie trailer, of the main event. The Revelation of Jesus Christ fits within the bounds of the Gospel record and tells us the concise order of events. Revelation must mirror this order: The week begins, A of D at the midpoint, then GT, then Jesus' sign of His coming appears, then Jesus is seen returning. No other order is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,637 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,371 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 5:18 PM, iamlamad said: The church is purified by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Then why does Peter say this, I wonder? "For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?" The person is saved by the blood of Jesus. If we were purified then why would judgment begin with God's people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Diaste said: As I read this it feels jumbled and forced. I think you should take all the evidence into consideration and not ignore Matthew 24 and Mark 13. How does the A of D occur at the midpoint with Lords coming after that, as recorded in the Gospels; but then the Lord comes before the A of D? Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 are the outlines for the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The Gospel's record is the preview, the movie trailer, of the main event. The Revelation of Jesus Christ fits within the bounds of the Gospel record and tells us the concise order of events. Revelation must mirror this order: The week begins, A of D at the midpoint, then GT, then Jesus' sign of His coming appears, then Jesus is seen returning. No other order is possible. The gospels, for the most part, were for the Jews. Jesus was sent to the Jews. The Gentile church of today did not begin until Israel as a nation rejected Jesus as their messiah. Remember, we are to be judged by Paul's gospel. I agree with this order, and SO DOES JOHN! The week begins, 7th seal A of D at the midpoint, 7th trumpet then GT, Late in chapter 14, chapter 15, and 16. then Jesus' sign of His coming appears, John did not see this sign, so did not write of it. Since He comes in chapter 19, the sign would be there IF John saw it and wrote of it. then Jesus is seen returning. Rev. 19. Note that the gospels leave out the start of the week (7th seal) and the end of the week (7th vial). So where is there a problem? Edited September 19, 2020 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Diaste said: Then why does Peter say this, I wonder? "For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God?" The person is saved by the blood of Jesus. If we were purified then why would judgment begin with God's people? It is a fact, many believers, whom God sees as the righteousness of God in Christ, still often want their own way. This verse in no way overrides verses that tell us God has planned an escape or verses that tell us we have no appointments with His wrath. His wrath is against the sinner. There are many verses that tell us that. We are chastened by the written word of God This all came about because SF believes Dan. 11:35 is for the future: And some of them that are wise shall fall, to refine them, and to purify, and to make them white, even to the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed. His thought was that the church must go through the 70th week to purify us (the church) and make us white. I disagree that verse has anything to do with the church, and I disagree it is for our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.07 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2020 13 hours ago, luigi said: The earth helping the woman, will be the very obvious signs of destruction the earth experiences, thereby swallowing up the flood of lies the dragon will spew from its mouth (a.k.a., the beast's mouth), advocating the destructive power the dragon will provide the beast that will cause woe all inhabitants of the earth and sea. Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. I don't think anyone knows if this is a real flood of water or not. It makes good sense it is just as it says, a flood. The devil can most certainly cause rain and associated floods. I see no reason to symbolize something that makes sense in its literal sense. And this is the Dragon's doing, not the Beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 19, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Diaste said: Are you referring to Rev 11:7-12? I only see the resurrection of the two witnesses at that point. Well, I don't know if that will happen or not. Where the witnesses are recorded in Rev it's not said the beast is destroyed. As far as I can tell the 6th trump is a woe, the 7th trump is a woe and the record of the retaking what I see as the legal deed to the earth and two witnesses is sort of packed in between those two. At the time Jesus stands on the mount I think it's said the people left in Jerusalem flee to the valley created when the mount of Olives splits east to west. That looks quite a bit different to me than fleeing from the A of D. In Zech 14 it's the day of the Lord. At the midpoint when the A of D happens Jesus says there is GT that happens next and only after some time passes (Not 3.5 years) do the signs of His coming appear. I agree. I'm seeing Zech 14 as the coming of the Lord and the time of the final battle; Armageddon, some time after the A of D. Do you believe Jesus is the resurrection or do you believe the two witnesses are equal to Jesus and resurrect themselves? If you believe Jesus resurrects the two witnesses then Jesus has come when they are resurrected. When christ comes, the kingdom is his. I don't believe the beast will reign over his kingdom for the next 3. 5 years. I know there is an earthquake in Jerusalem the day the two witnesses are resurrected. There is also an earthquake in Jerusalem the day of God's wrath. How many earthquakes do you believe Jerusalem will have, one or many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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