Daniel 2 and the dream of the great statue.

[JoeCanada]

 

Is the fourth kingdom Rome?......or is it ???????

Daniel 2 is about King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of a statue. And scholars have debated for centuries on the interpretation of that dream and the arguments about which nation was the fourth kingdom.

In the dream, we are never actually given the names of the various kingdoms, except for the head of gold…. who was King Nebuchadnezzars kingdom, Babylon.

Daniel tells the King:

“There is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days”….Daniel 2:27

There are some who take this to mean : ‘the latter days of his kingdom’ and not the ‘latter days of the end times’.

We are told that the statue was comprised of FIVE layers, each made of a different material and each representing a different kingdom:

A head of GOLD……a chest and arms of SILVER……a belly and thighs of BRONZE……legs of IRON……and feet and toes of IRON mixed with CLAY.

The statue is struck by a STONE…. which then crushed ALL portions of the statue at the same time….and afterwards, the STONE grew to be a MOUNTAIN that filled the whole earth. We know that this is the end times, so the ‘latter days’ in Dan 2:27 must mean the end times latter days

The STONE is Jesus who will crush the kingdoms of this world upon His triumphal return.

Ok….so far so good? Can we all agree that this is correct? ….according to Scripture?..........No?....Why?

Since the feet and toes of the statue…… which represent the final kingdom ( according to Daniel’s interpretation )………. this will be the portion of the statue struck when Jesus returns at the Second Coming, so they MUST be representative of the realm of the antichrist…… TRUE?....YES?

So……… knowing the TRUE IDENTITY of the kingdom of IRON – which is directly connected to the toes – will help us to identify the kingdom of the antichrist.

Now…let’s examine the prophecy. It’s important that Daniel told the King that the first kingdom was BABYLON…………. It was made of GOLD and it was the HEAD:

“ You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory, and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over them all”….Dan 2:37-38

The entire prophecy then, concerns THIS KINGDOM ….. BABYLON.

Now, most Bible translations say that the kingdom that followed Babylon would be “Inferior” to it. What that doesn’t mean is that Babylon was larger or more powerful than the kingdom that followed. Persia , as represented by the SILVER, was substantially larger that Babylon…. And Greece, the third empire, was larger still.

The Hebrew word translated “inferior” is ara. It is found 20 times in scripture, and every other occurrence it means ‘ land or earth’. The very next Hebrew word found in Dan 2:39 is ‘minnak’  which literally means ‘out from ’. So, together these two words literally mean ‘out from your land’. A better translation of what this verse is actually saying is:

“Another kingdom shall arise after you out of your land ( out of your earth ) And yet a third kingdom of bronze shall rule all the land ( or earth )”….Dan 2:39

The verse is talking about the ‘land mass’ of Babylon and who will rule it in the future. God told Daniel the interpretation, and that interpretation was that Babylon would rule the known earth at that time.  And then subsequent kingdoms would rule the same territory. So, Babylon…. then Persia…then Greece….then the fourth kingdom……each one will also rule this same territory. The prophecy of the Statue is about the land or territory….and that territory was Babylon!

After the death of Alexander in Greece, the Greek Empire dissolved and the land mass that was Babylon was divided. Rome controlled the western portion, which included Turkey, Syria and Israel. The Parthian Empire controlled the Babylonian motherland to the east. Neither Rome nor the Parthian Empires can be considered the fourth kingdom…..because neither controlled ALL of the Babylonian territory. The prophecy is about the territory. And don’t go clamoring about Rome conquering Babylon…..it held Babylon for only one year….that hardly counts as making it part of the Roman Empire....and Rome never conquered Persia.

Here is what most fail to consider. In Dan 2:40, we are told that this fourth kingdom will ‘break and shatter all the kingdoms that came before it’…………….. Did Rome break and shatter all the empires that came before it? ……………….. Hardly! It held Babylon for only one year and never even entered Persia. Did it crush Greek culture and substitute its own?  Not even close. Rome copied Greek architecture and worshipped Greek gods….they just named them different. Rome used Greek as the  language of commerce and business. Rome did not in any way, shape or form crush Greek culture or the cultures of other captured nations……no, instead they adopted them!

So what was the fourth kingdom?

The Islamic Caliphate.

Islamic invaders crushed the cultures they invaded. They crushed and captured the geography of all the previous kingdoms…..they forced their monotheistic god Allah on the conquered peoples at the point of a sword….they instituted new architecture and the Arabaic language……and they forced their Sharia law and calendars on their foes, thereby changing the laws and the seasons. Islam means submission.

Not only does the rise of the Islamic Caliphate match scriptures about the fourth kingdom better than Rome…..its demise does as well. Jesus will break into pieces all five kingdoms represented by the statue upon His return – all at the same time. A revived Caliphate will include all of Babylon, Persia and Greece. All will be destroyed at the same time that the Caliphate is destroyed.

The fourth kingdom in the statue from Daniel 2 IS the Islamic Caliphate.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 

Is the fourth kingdom Rome?......or is it ???????

Daniel 2 is about King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of a statue. And scholars have debated for centuries on the interpretation of that dream and the arguments about which nation was the fourth kingdom.

In the dream, we are never actually given the names of the various kingdoms, except for the head of gold…. who was King Nebuchadnezzars kingdom, Babylon.

Daniel tells the King:

“There is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days”….Daniel 2:27

There are some who take this to mean : ‘the latter days of his kingdom’ and not the ‘latter days of the end times’.

We are told that the statue was comprised of FIVE layers, each made of a different material and each representing a different kingdom:

A head of GOLD……a chest and arms of SILVER……a belly and thighs of BRONZE……legs of IRON……and feet and toes of IRON mixed with CLAY.

The statue is struck by a STONE…. which then crushed ALL portions of the statue at the same time….and afterwards, the STONE grew to be a MOUNTAIN that filled the whole earth. We know that this is the end times, so the ‘latter days’ in Dan 2:27 must mean the end times latter days

The STONE is Jesus who will crush the kingdoms of this world upon His triumphal return.

Ok….so far so good? Can we all agree that this is correct? ….according to Scripture?..........No?....Why?

Since the feet and toes of the statue…… which represent the final kingdom ( according to Daniel’s interpretation )………. this will be the portion of the statue struck when Jesus returns at the Second Coming, so they MUST be representative of the realm of the antichrist…… TRUE?....YES?

So……… knowing the TRUE IDENTITY of the kingdom of IRON – which is directly connected to the toes – will help us to identify the kingdom of the antichrist.

Now…let’s examine the prophecy. It’s important that Daniel told the King that the first kingdom was BABYLON…………. It was made of GOLD and it was the HEAD:

“ You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory, and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over them all”….Dan 2:37-38

The entire prophecy then, concerns THIS KINGDOM ….. BABYLON.

Now, most Bible translations say that the kingdom that followed Babylon would be “Inferior” to it. What that doesn’t mean is that Babylon was larger or more powerful than the kingdom that followed. Persia , as represented by the SILVER, was substantially larger that Babylon…. And Greece, the third empire, was larger still.

The Hebrew word translated “inferior” is ara. It is found 20 times in scripture, and every other occurrence it means ‘ land or earth’. The very next Hebrew word found in Dan 2:39 is ‘minnak’  which literally means ‘out from ’. So, together these two words literally mean ‘out from your land’. A better translation of what this verse is actually saying is:

“Another kingdom shall arise after you out of your land ( out of your earth ) And yet a third kingdom of bronze shall rule all the land ( or earth )”….Dan 2:39

The verse is talking about the ‘land mass’ of Babylon and who will rule it in the future. God told Daniel the interpretation, and that interpretation was that Babylon would rule the known earth at that time.  And then subsequent kingdoms would rule the same territory. So, Babylon…. then Persia…then Greece….then the fourth kingdom……each one will also rule this same territory. The prophecy of the Statue is about the land or territory….and that territory was Babylon!

After the death of Alexander in Greece, the Greek Empire dissolved and the land mass that was Babylon was divided. Rome controlled the western portion, which included Turkey, Syria and Israel. The Parthian Empire controlled the Babylonian motherland to the east. Neither Rome nor the Parthian Empires can be considered the fourth kingdom…..because neither controlled ALL of the Babylonian territory. The prophecy is about the territory. And don’t go clamoring about Rome conquering Babylon…..it held Babylon for only one year….that hardly counts as making it part of the Roman Empire....and Rome never conquered Persia.

Here is what most fail to consider. In Dan 2:40, we are told that this fourth kingdom will ‘break and shatter all the kingdoms that came before it’…………….. Did Rome break and shatter all the empires that came before it? ……………….. Hardly! It held Babylon for only one year and never even entered Persia. Did it crush Greek culture and substitute its own?  Not even close. Rome copied Greek architecture and worshipped Greek gods….they just named them different. Rome used Greek as the  language of commerce and business. Rome did not in any way, shape or form crush Greek culture or the cultures of other captured nations……no, instead they adopted them!

So what was the fourth kingdom?

The Islamic Caliphate.

Islamic invaders crushed the cultures they invaded. They crushed and captured the geography of all the previous kingdoms…..they forced their monotheistic god Allah on the conquered peoples at the point of a sword….they instituted new architecture and the Arabaic language……and they forced their Sharia law and calendars on their foes, thereby changing the laws and the seasons. Islam means submission.

Not only does the rise of the Islamic Caliphate match scriptures about the fourth kingdom better than Rome…..its demise does as well. Jesus will break into pieces all five kingdoms represented by the statue upon His return – all at the same time. A revived Caliphate will include all of Babylon, Persia and Greece. All will be destroyed at the same time that the Caliphate is destroyed.

The fourth kingdom in the statue from Daniel 2 IS the Islamic Caliphate.

I agree its not Rome. 

And I've came to the conclusion that the 4th beast was Nebuchadnezars kingdom devided as it is today. Same as the ten horns and the little horn that shares the kingdom with them. The little horn that is diverse from the others and appears stouter is Israel. The ten who attack Jerusalem and make war with the Lamb are ten Muslim nations. In the end the beast is destroyed and his kingdom is given to the saints. That's why its called the promised land. It was always promised to the seed of Abraham(Christ). 

Of course no one believes me.

 

[BibleReader]

6 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 

Is the fourth kingdom Rome?......or is it ???????

 

What an interesting post!  Got me to think quite a bit.  What you mention about the Hebrew words Minnak and Ara is quite fascinating and I'd like to do more research on this.  Furthermore, what you mention about Daniel 2:40 is very true, and a while back, I also came to the conclusion that Rome likely is not the fourth kingdom in the vision because of what you mention. 

Now here's where I'm inclined to differ when it comes to our conclusions:  I believe the fourth kingdom of iron legs and iron and clay feet will arise in the future, in other words, it's not here yet.  Here's why I believe that and I'd appreciate constructive criticism here:

• The first three kingdoms played a huge role in affecting God's chosen people by making changes to the temple. 
  • The Babylonians destroyed Solomon's temple
  • The Persians authorized the construction of the temple
  • The Greeks (Antiochus IV), constructed a pagan altar atop the temple altar in Jerusalem and dedicated it to the Greek god Zeus.
• Daniel chapters 2, 11 and 12 seem to be intertwined (compare Daniel 2:44,45 with Daniel 11:45, 12:1).  Since Daniel 11:31 seems to indicate a temple structure (whether spiritual or physical I can't be sure at this time) that will be profaned (see Daniel 11:31) precisely 1,290 days prior to the "end" (See Daniel 12:8,11), this leads me to believe that the fourth kingdom may not be here yet.

Lastly, regarding the identities of each of the metallic parts of the image,  one hypothesis is the following and I'd like to know what you think (especially about # 3 in the list below):

1. Gold=Babylon
2. Silver=Persia
3. Copper=Greco-Roman empires (Greece and later Rome)
4. Iron legs with iron and clay feet=The King of the North (it will appear in the future or it's already in the making)

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by BibleReader

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Is the fourth kingdom Rome?......or is it ???????

Daniel 2 is about King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of a statue. And scholars have debated for centuries on the interpretation of that dream and the arguments about which nation was the fourth kingdom.

In the dream, we are never actually given the names of the various kingdoms, except for the head of gold…. who was King Nebuchadnezzars kingdom, Babylon.

Daniel tells the King:

“There is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries and He has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will take place in the latter days”….Daniel 2:27

There are some who take this to mean : ‘the latter days of his kingdom’ and not the ‘latter days of the end times’.

We are told that the statue was comprised of FIVE layers, each made of a different material and each representing a different kingdom:

A head of GOLD……a chest and arms of SILVER……a belly and thighs of BRONZE……legs of IRON……and feet and toes of IRON mixed with CLAY.

The statue is struck by a STONE…. which then crushed ALL portions of the statue at the same time….and afterwards, the STONE grew to be a MOUNTAIN that filled the whole earth. We know that this is the end times, so the ‘latter days’ in Dan 2:27 must mean the end times latter days

The STONE is Jesus who will crush the kingdoms of this world upon His triumphal return.

Ok….so far so good? Can we all agree that this is correct? ….according to Scripture?..........No?....Why?

YES........SO FAR OK............

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Since the feet and toes of the statue…… which represent the final kingdom ( according to Daniel’s interpretation )………. this will be the portion of the statue struck when Jesus returns at the Second Coming, so they MUST be representative of the realm of the antichrist…… TRUE?....YES?

Again..........YES.

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

So……… knowing the TRUE IDENTITY of the kingdom of IRON – which is directly connected to the toes – will help us to identify the kingdom of the antichrist.

Now…let’s examine the prophecy. It’s important that Daniel told the King that the first kingdom was BABYLON…………. It was made of GOLD and it was the HEAD:

“ You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory, and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over them all”….Dan 2:37-38

The entire prophecy then, concerns THIS KINGDOM ….. BABYLON.

Not literally, but Metaphorically since Babylon means CONFUSED, and the Nations that fight against their own Creator are of course CONFUSED, thus Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth is considered Babylon the Great in the Spiritual world. A point I have been trying to make on here for quite awhile. 

All these Kingdoms of grandeur, have one thing in common, they forgot the true God. But the Physical Babylon fell, as did Persia, as did Greece, as did Rome, as did Egypt and Assyria before them via the 7 Headed Beast that John is shown, as will the Anti-Christ who is a part of the FEET......The 7th Head of the Beast. 

So, the Kingdom that falls is Satan's Kingdom of CONFUSION (Babel) over mankind, he's locked in a pit for 1000 years.

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Now, most Bible translations say that the kingdom that followed Babylon would be “Inferior” to it. What that doesn’t mean is that Babylon was larger or more powerful than the kingdom that followed. Persia , as represented by the SILVER, was substantially larger that Babylon…. And Greece, the third empire, was larger still.

The Hebrew word translated “inferior” is ara. It is found 20 times in scripture, and every other occurrence it means ‘ land or earth’. The very next Hebrew word found in Dan 2:39 is ‘minnak’  which literally means ‘out from ’. So, together these two words literally mean ‘out from your land’. A better translation of what this verse is actually saying is:

“Another kingdom shall arise after you out of your land ( out of your earth ) And yet a third kingdom of bronze shall rule all the land ( or earth )”….Dan 2:39

Inferior METALS can also be and are HARDER SUBSTANCES. Thus Babylon was more grandeur, but Persia was STRONGER, all the way to Rome which was compared to Iron. Then the 5th Beast Kingdom of the Little Horn is shown to be a Fractured Europe, its not 10 kings, the number 10 stands for the complete area of Europe, no matter how many kings/kingdoms over the 2000 some odd years between whenever Rome fell, to 1948 existed at any given time, 10 represents the complete fractured kingdom(s). Notice the last Beast is always fragile, even when it reforms, it doesn't last but a very short time compared to the others. Babylon, more pure, Persia less so but Silver is a harder metal, Greece is compared to brass, its less pure than Silver but a harder metal = a stronger Kingdom. Rome was as Iron, it was the strongest of all the Kingdoms. The Anti-Christs Kingdom is the weakest by far, and the least pure, of course.  Thus it lasts only 42 months.

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

The verse is talking about the ‘land mass’ of Babylon and who will rule it in the future. God told Daniel the interpretation, and that interpretation was that Babylon would rule the known earth at that time.  And then subsequent kingdoms would rule the same territory. So, Babylon…. then Persia…then Greece….then the fourth kingdom……each one will also rule this same territory. The prophecy of the Statue is about the land or territory….and that territory was Babylon!

They don't rule the same Territory per se, they rule Israel and a portion of the Mediterranean Sea Region, that is whom God is designated as being BEASTED OVER here, and since this is about the Mediterranean Sea Region AND Israel being occupied, we can look at maps and understand that each successive kingdom in the Mediterranean Sea Region grew bigger and stronger, IN RELATION ONLY to the Mediterranean Sea Region. Rome ruled over EVERY SQUARE INCH of the Mediterranean Sea Region.

Babylon Conquered a little of Israel/Syria, a little bit of what is now Turkey and a little bit of Egypt. 

Notice, Persia's rule extended further into Africa and all the way to Greece's border !!

Greece's kingdom in the Mediterranean Sea Region was almost identical to the Persian Empire, but it also added Macedonia, of course.

NOTICE: Only Rome covers every square inch of the Mediterranean Sea Region. The Beasts which arises out of this Great Sea in Daniel is the same kingdoms as Nebuchadnezzar saw, he saw them as precious metals, Daniel saw them as evil Beasts of prey. This is why Rome is spoken of as Conquering ALL THE LAND, the land in question is the Mediterranean Sea Region, Rome CRUSHED all the Land being SPOKEN OF by God !! None of the others did this in full, Greece's Kingdom spread far to the east, all the way to India, but God is speaking about a BEAST over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region, not another area. This is why the Little Horn is said to arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head, and not the 3rd Beast or 2nd Beast or 1st Beasts Head, but out of the Fourth Beasts Head. Look at the Nations he conquers in Daniel 11:40-43 and add them onto the current European Union Map and they will look just like the Roman Empire Above.

SEE BELOW:Notice how the Roman Empire and the E.U. after they Conquer the Nations mentioned in Daniel 11:40-43 look EXACLY ALIKE?

Its not about how big or how small any of the Kingdoms were, your hunch was correct there, but it is about how much of the Mediterranean Sea Region they Conquer, the Beast comes out of the GREAT SEA for a reason. Its about the Mediterranean Sea Region AND Israel. What Alexander the Great did in India is not relevant to the story line God is giving unto us. So, its not per se about the land mass of Babylon, God is not worried about Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome per se, He's pointing towards a BEAST that Conquers Israel and the whole region. Each one got larger in that one way, each successive Kingdom got bigger in the Mediterranean Sea Region area. The area that is being spoken about by God.

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

After the death of Alexander in Greece, the Greek Empire dissolved and the land mass that was Babylon was divided. Rome controlled the western portion, which included Turkey, Syria and Israel. The Parthian Empire controlled the Babylonian motherland to the east. Neither Rome nor the Parthian Empires can be considered the fourth kingdom…..because neither controlled ALL of the Babylonian territory. The prophecy is about the territory. And don’t go clamoring about Rome conquering Babylon…..it held Babylon for only one year….that hardly counts as making it part of the Roman Empire....and Rome never conquered Persia.

Here is what most fail to consider. In Dan 2:40, we are told that this fourth kingdom will ‘break and shatter all the kingdoms that came before it’…………….. Did Rome break and shatter all the empires that came before it? ……………….. Hardly! It held Babylon for only one year and never even entered Persia. Did it crush Greek culture and substitute its own?  Not even close. Rome copied Greek architecture and worshipped Greek gods….they just named them different. Rome used Greek as the  language of commerce and business. Rome did not in any way, shape or form crush Greek culture or the cultures of other captured nations……no, instead they adopted them!

So what was the fourth kingdom?

The Islamic Caliphate.

As I showed above, bad analysis will lead one off course and into a cul-de-sac. Then off road, and into bad situations in general. 

1.) Its not all about the Physical Kingdom of Babylon, the Spiritual Kingdom of Babylon, YES, we can go there. Its about Israel/Region.

2.) Daniel 2:40 doesn't say what you say it says, I have the Hebrew Massoretic version which was translated into English, but you must be using a bad interpretation, or just assuming these things. 

Daniel 2:40 And the fourth 7244 kingdom 4437 shall be 1934 z8748 strong 8624 as iron: 6523 forasmuch as x3606 x6903 x1768 iron 6523 breaketh in pieces 1855 z8683 and subdueth 2827 z8751 all 3606 [things]: and as y6903 iron 6523 that x1768 breaketh 7490 z8750 all 3606 these, 459 shall it break in pieces 1855 z8681 and bruise. 7490 z8748

(KJV) Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Its pretty much spot on, the KJV just adds in "THINGS" which is not there in reality. 

You are conflating, IMHO, God's DESCRIPTION of Rome Conquering the WHOLE Mediterranean Sea Region, and applying that description to the Conquering of Babylon, Persia and Greece, most of those Kingdoms were long gone as Beast powers by the time Rome came to power, except for Greece of course. That description is about Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, not the other Kingdoms that came before it per se. Look at the maps above, only Rome subdues the whole region being spoken of, the Mediterranean Sea Region, where the Beasts arose from. (out of the Sea). 

It never says anything about Rome Conquering the other Empires, its speaking about the Region. Literally no one buys the argument that Rome is not the Fourth Beast. Jesus died in the Fourth Beasts Kingdom. That's just a fact brother. But in order to get an Islamic Caliphate in the picture, you have to try to do this. Islam will be wiped out by the Anti-Christ, PERIOD. 

22 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Islamic invaders crushed the cultures they invaded. They crushed and captured the geography of all the previous kingdoms…..they forced their monotheistic god Allah on the conquered peoples at the point of a sword….they instituted new architecture and the Arabaic language……and they forced their Sharia law and calendars on their foes, thereby changing the laws and the seasons. Islam means submission.

Not only does the rise of the Islamic Caliphate match scriptures about the fourth kingdom better than Rome…..its demise does as well. Jesus will break into pieces all five kingdoms represented by the statue upon His return – all at the same time. A revived Caliphate will include all of Babylon, Persia and Greece. All will be destroyed at the same time that the Caliphate is destroyed.

The fourth kingdom in the statue from Daniel 2 IS the Islamic Caliphate.

There was NO BEAST after Rome fell, and John said the 6th Beast head WAS..........at the time he was living, so Beast number 4 which is the 6th Beast Head was Rome, not Islam brother. 

The Abraham Accord would tell you something if you studied the Ezekiel 38 war. No nation that has a common border with Israel is in that War, thus Russia, Iran and Turkey are in that war and they will be wiped out by God as Armies. Thus, opening the door for the European Anti-Christ who is allowed to CONQUER Israel, unlike Iran, Russia and Turkey. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Revelation Man

[JoeCanada]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I agree its not Rome. 

And I've came to the conclusion that the 4th beast was Nebuchadnezars kingdom devided as it is today. Same as the ten horns and the little horn that shares the kingdom with them. The little horn that is diverse from the others and appears stouter is Israel. The ten who attack Jerusalem and make war with the Lamb are ten Muslim nations. In the end the beast is destroyed and his kingdom is given to the saints. That's why its called the promised land. It was always promised to the seed of Abraham(Christ). 

Of course no one believes me.

 

Hi Shilohsfoal,

 The little horn that is diverse from the others and appears stouter is Israel.

How is it that you equate the little horn with Israel?  Do you have anything from scripture that supports this? 

How do you get the little horn is Israel from Daniel 8:9?

[JoeCanada]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Not literally, but Metaphorically since Babylon means CONFUSED, and the Nations that fight against their own Creator are of course CONFUSED, thus Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth is considered Babylon the Great in the Spiritual world. A point I have been trying to make on here for quite awhile. 

All these Kingdoms of grandeur, have one thing in common, they forgot the true God. But the Physical Babylon fell, as did Persia, as did Greece, as did Rome, as did Egypt and Assyria before them via the 7 Headed Beast that John is shown, as will the Anti-Christ who is a part of the FEET......The 7th Head of the Beast. 

So, the Kingdom that falls is Satan's Kingdom of CONFUSION (Babel) over mankind, he locked in a pit for 1000 years.

 

Hey Revman,

JoeCanada said:.......The entire prophecy then, concerns THIS KINGDOM ….. BABYLON.

You replied: ......

Not literally, but Metaphorically since Babylon means CONFUSED, and the Nations that fight against their own Creator are of course CONFUSED, thus Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth is considered Babylon the Great in the Spiritual world. A point I have been trying to make on here for quite awhile. 

All these Kingdoms of grandeur, have one thing in common, they forgot the true God. But the Physical Babylon fell, as did Persia, as did Greece, as did Rome, as did Egypt and Assyria before them via the 7 Headed Beast that John is shown, as will the Anti-Christ who is a part of the FEET......The 7th Head of the Beast. 

So, the Kingdom that falls is Satan's Kingdom of CONFUSION (Babel) over mankind, he locked in a pit for 1000 years.

It's not BABYLON that means "confused"........it's BABAL. The Hebrew word for confusion is 'Babal' ...which sounds like 'Babel" (Babylon)

Perhaps there is some 'confusion' in the one who replied.....lol

 Then the 5th Beast Kingdom of the Little Horn is shown to be a Fractured Europe, its not 10 kings, the number 10 stands for the complete area of Europe,

Oh please.....now you are grasping at straws. Preconceived notions. ...... "The number 10 stands for the complete area of Europe"????.......... show me more from scripture please

They don't rule the same Territory per se, they rule Israel and a portion of the Mediterranean Sea Region, since this is about the Mediterranean Sea Region 

You can "per se" all you like. The scripture from Daniel 2: 37-38 is talking about the land mass of Babylon. The entire prophecy concerns this kingdom. The LAND MASS! Go back and look at the word " ara "........in Hebrew. The prophecy is speaking of the territory.....the same territory....Babylon!

The Mediterranean Sea Region is NOT the entire Mediterranean Sea.....It is the Eastern portion of the Sea. In the Old Testament, the great sea was the Eastern Mediterranean Sea. 

I'll handle the rest of your comments at another time. Gotta go......zoom!

 

[Shilohsfoal]

43 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Shilohsfoal,

 The little horn that is diverse from the others and appears stouter is Israel.

How is it that you equate the little horn with Israel?  Do you have anything from scripture that supports this? 

How do you get the little horn is Israel from Daniel 8:9?

There's more written about the little horn than just Daniel 8:9.

For one you would only need look in the pleasant land to see who is there. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-9.htm

The people who founded Israel were fleeing Europe and traveling south east to the pleasant land in ships. One such ship was called the exodus. They declared thier independence from Great Britton, the fifth empire from the west (forth after Greece) to govern the pleasant land after defeating the Ottoman empire at Armegeddon. Israel went on to become great being the middle east super power with between 200-400 nuclear warheads. Israel soundly defeated three of the other horns(Egypt, Syria, and Jordan) to take control of the seven heads(seven hills of Jerusalem). 

 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-24.htm

[Shilohsfoal]

58 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Shilohsfoal,

 The little horn that is diverse from the others and appears stouter is Israel.

How is it that you equate the little horn with Israel?  Do you have anything from scripture that supports this? 

How do you get the little horn is Israel from Daniel 8:9?

Also according to Daniel chapters 11-12,the saints in Israel are persecuted and many of the killed. Jesus also mentions this persecution in the gospel. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-25.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-26.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-27.htm

According to Daniel in these three verses the saints will be persecuted by the little horn, then his kingdom is destroyed, and then it is given those saints who were persecuted. It is given to them forever. 

Now if we look in Revelation to see where those saints live after they have been resurrected we find them living in Jerusalem. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-4.htm

https://biblehub.com/revelation/20-9.htm

 

Looks like they will go to thier own and thier own recieve them not. Sound familiar? Those saints will be persecuted throughout Israel for those three and a half years(a time, times and a half) till Christ comes. 

https://biblehub.com/matthew/10-23.htm

Talk about walking in Jesus footsteps. 

[JoeCanada]

10 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

There's more written about the little horn than just Daniel 8:9.

For one you would only need look in the pleasant land to see who is there. 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/8-9.htm

The people who founded Israel were fleeing Europe and traveling south east to the pleasant land in ships. One such ship was called the exodus. They declared thier independence from Great Britton, the fifth empire from the west (forth after Greece) to govern the pleasant land after defeating the Ottoman empire at Armegeddon. Israel went on to become great being the middle east super power with between 200-400 nuclear warheads. Israel soundly defeated three of the other horns(Egypt, Syria, and Jordan) to take control of the seven heads(seven hills of Jerusalem). 

 

https://biblehub.com/daniel/7-24.htm

The people who founded Israel were fleeing Europe and traveling south east to the pleasant land in ships. One such ship was called the exodus

 Ok.....I hope you're not being serious. 

after defeating the Ottoman empire at Armegeddon..........

Again.....I hope you're not being serious. Armageddon was not in 1923

[Shilohsfoal]

9 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

The people who founded Israel were fleeing Europe and traveling south east to the pleasant land in ships. One such ship was called the exodus

 Ok.....I hope you're not being serious. 

after defeating the Ottoman empire at Armegeddon..........

Again.....I hope you're not being serious. Armageddon was not in 1923

Armegeddon is a place. It's the plain at the base of Mt Megiddo. 

https://biblehub.com/revelation/16-16.htm

Revelation even says it's a place. But no I'm not talking about this war. I'm talking about Great Britton defeating the ottoman turks at that place. At Armegeddon Israel. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Shilohsfoal