conciousness & anesthesia

[Chris Schutte]

If the premise is that things like mind and conciousness are non-physical phenomena, metaphysical therefore, and not dependant on the biology of the brain, that is to say, that your thoughts and conciousness interact with your brain and you brain and central nervous system reacts to "commands" derived from conciousness and thought, how is it then that our sense of conciousness is "switched off" during anesthesia .. 

 

I guess the same question could be asked of the deep sleep state .. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Chris Schutte

[johnthebaptist]

4 hours ago, Chris Schutte said:

If the premise is that things like mind and conciousness are non-physical phenomena, metaphysical therefore, and not dependant on the biology of the brain, that is to say, that your thoughts and conciousness interact with your brain and you brain and central nervous system reacts to "commands" derived from conciousness and thought, how is it then that our sense of conciousness is "switched off" during anesthesia .. 

 

I guess the same question could be asked of the deep sleep state .. 

Perhaps it isn't switched off. Perhaps we go somewhere and then forget where we've been.

[Tristen]

We are designed to interact with this world through a physical body. Our "consciousness" uses the brain to process our reality. So that when the brain is 'down', the whole system/interaction enters a state of 'hibernation'. I wonder if some dreams might represent a type of meta interaction between the two while the brain is in sleep mode.

[Mike Mclees]

3 hours ago, Tristen said:

We are designed to interact with this world through a physical body. Our "consciousness" uses the brain to process our reality. So that when the brain is 'down', the whole system/interaction enters a state of 'hibernation'. I wonder if some dreams might represent a type of meta interaction between the two while the brain is in sleep mode.

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

[Mike Mclees]

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you say consciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

1 minute ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

2 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

Would you subconsciousness is unique to the person as individual or is consciousness a property  of total presence 

 

[Chris Schutte]

10 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Perhaps it isn't switched off. Perhaps we go somewhere and then forget where we've been.

At the exact moment the anesthesia kicks in; bit convenient, wouldn't you say ?

 

And if we go somewhere, why aren't we concious or aware of it ? 

 

If conciousness and mind aren't emergent properties of brain chemistry, then shouldn't we be self aware even when the brain goes down ? In my experience when the brain goes to sleep, so does conciousness. Does that not make an argument that conciousness is an emergent property of brain activity and therefore not independant of the brain.

 

Playing devil's advocate here since I've never come accross a satisfactory response to this ..

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Chris Schutte

[Speks]

Maybe this doesn't answer your question, Chris, but...

The soul is the seat of our personality – the mind's thoughts, our emotions and intentions, our preferences and dislikes, and so on, that also normally govern our bodies. In that context it is dependant on the brain's biology and consciousness. When we are 'knocked out' in some way, the mind is completely unaware because the soul can't function in a physical brain that's been switched off.

Salvation in Christ adds a new consciousness, when we willingly abide in Him. A human spirit that has been made alive in Christ, by faith in Him and His sacrificial work, knows both a person's thoughts and the mind of Christ through the Holy Spirit Who dwells within. Our souls will be gradually conformed into His image when we allow the Holy Spirit to work through our spirits. In this way we are properly and effectively subjected to His will.

Soul-centric believers are full of themselves rather than being fully aware of the Holy Spirit's guidance within.

My head hurts now!

 

[johnthebaptist]

6 hours ago, Chris Schutte said:

At the exact moment the anesthesia kicks in; bit convenient, wouldn't you say ?

 

And if we go somewhere, why aren't we concious or aware of it ? 

 

If conciousness and mind aren't emergent properties of brain chemistry, then shouldn't we be self aware even when the brain goes down ? In my experience when the brain goes to sleep, so does conciousness. Does that not make an argument that conciousness is an emergent property of brain activity and therefore not independant of the brain.

 

Playing devil's advocate here since I've never come accross a satisfactory response to this ..

 

 

I am merely speculating. When I said we might go somewhere else during anasthesia and then return to out normal consciousness, I would suggest that at the time we've gone somewhere else, we are fully aware of where we have gone. It's just that when we came back, we forget. You could compare it to a dream. We don't remember all our dreams, but certainly we are aware of what's happening in our dreams while we are having them.

[teddyv]

From what I recall, in surgery anesthesia, they administer three drugs - one to paralyze so you don't move on the table, one to knock you out, and one to affect the memory. I know an anesthesiologist in our town so I should really ask him.

[teddyv]

6 minutes ago, Josheb said:

There are many types of anesthesia, some rendering the patient unconscious (or unresponsive to external stimuli) and others leaving the patient responsive but without pain to the surgically affected areas. 

Your question is a curious one, probably not wholly answerable because of the problem of memory - or more accurately: recall. Generally speaking, I think it is widely accepted the body records everything but that does not mean it can recall everything. Hence my question about how you (or any of us) know what's going on inside the sedated individual unawares to us outside the anesthesia. Just because a patient cannot recall the experience doesn't mean it wasn't recorded.  

Fair enough. I recall, but am not sure, that the memory-wiping was started after there were a series of reports of people waking during surgery. Such that they could hear the doctors talking, could feel the pain, but could not move or make their plight known because of the induced paralysis.