What do you think about the decrease in Christianity and increase in atheism in the US?

[David1701]

1 minute ago, Josheb said:

I think you're in the wrong, here, brother, and need to dial it down some.

I don't.

Quote

 

What do you think about the decrease in Christianity and the increase in atheism in the US? 

SObG: I think Matt Slick has explained this: improper Christian teaching, the Church failing the culture, and an increase in secularism and spiritual oppression. 
David: Evolution is the cause given by most youth when asked. 
Josh: I don't think decrease/increase is happening even though I agree there's a lack of teaching and cultural influence in the face of secularism, spiritual struggle, and evolution. 

Where's the conflict in those views.

 

I don't want to give a long, convoluted answer, so I'll summarise the reason why I posted in the first place instead (no, it is not really an answer to your question).

The main cause of the increase of atheism in Britain (I can't speak for the States), is evolution.  The decrease in Christianity, in Britain, since the 1950s, is colossal.  There are churches closing, right, left and centre; and the foremost reason given for the falling away, is a belief in evolution and long ages (they go together).

In Britain, there are now more people who do not profess any faith at all, than all religions put together.  In the 1970s, the majority of the country was professing Christian.

[teddyv]

Just now, Josheb said:

Do please prove that claim. 

Hmmmmm...... Red herring or just completely off-topic? 

Who is it specifically that makes YEC a "test of salvation"?  

And how does that explain the decrease/increase asked about in this op?

Which one, evolution drives people from faith, or YEC is bunk? I don't have immediate links, but I've read testimonials over the years. I've followed the YEC/OEC/evolution stuff for years. The latter is pretty self evident once you actually test the various YEC claims.

And AiG heavily implies that belief in YEC is tantamount to unbelief. You only have to read Ham's blogs from time to time. Jeez, I've had my belief questioned by so many people on another board over the years (not here yet) because I don't hold to the literal reading of Genesis.

[David1701]

11 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you continue justifying name-calling a member of Worthy Christian Forums calling me once again arrogant.

I have already explained to you that I did not call you arrogant.  I said, correctly, that what you posted was arrogant.  Do you honestly not understand the difference?

Quote

This is false teaching and accusatory to all of bible believing teachers who have been teaching OEC and DAY-AGE Creation. 

The Bible teaches, very, very clearly, that God created everything in six days (days with a morning an evening and number attached, making them, beyond any doubt whatever, literal days), then rested on the seventh.

Quote

Many people call Ken Ham a false teacher.  If you watch him as I have, you can tell the Spirit of the Living God is not within him.

This comment is another mark of The Accuser of the Brethren.  Ken Ham is a brother in Christ.

Quote

You are now calling me a slanderer and all of us who do not see Ken Ham as a man of God, but a false teacher leading sheep astray.

Correct.

[David1701]

1 minute ago, teddyv said:

Which one, evolution drives people from faith, or YEC is bunk? I don't have immediate links, but I've read testimonials over the years. I've followed the YEC/OEC/evolution stuff for years. The latter is pretty self evident once you actually test the various YEC claims.

And AiG heavily implies that belief in YEC is tantamount to unbelief. You only have to read Ham's blogs from time to time. Jeez, I've had my belief questioned by so many people on another board over the years (not here yet) because I don't hold to the literal reading of Genesis.

You must be one of those who "reinterprets" Genesis, to agree with atheistic long ages and evolution.  Why are you then surprised, if some question your belief?

I am not saying that you are not a Christian; but, in order to hold to the gospel and long ages/evolution, you have to practise cognitive dissonance.

[teddyv]

9 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You must be one of those who "reinterprets" Genesis, to agree with atheistic long ages and evolution.  Why are you then surprised, if some question your belief?

I am not saying that you are not a Christian; but, in order to hold to the gospel and long ages/evolution, you have to practise cognitive dissonance.

Hardly. I won't detail this further. I'm sure we hash it some other day. The insult is noted though.

[David1701]

Just now, teddyv said:

Hardly. I won't detail this further. I'm sure we hash it some other day. The insult is noted though.

It's not an insult, just a statement of fact.

In the Bible, a day is a literal day, every time it is accompanied by "morning", or "evening" or a number (day one, day two, etc.).  The creation days are accompanied by ALL THREE.  God was making absolutely certain that there could be no doubt about it whatever, if you are honest that is.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, teddyv said:

The only reason you might make the case that evolution drives people from faith is they come to the conclusion that YEC dogma is complete bunk. Coupled with the ridiculous demand that YEC is the absolute truth and that any deviation throws one's salvation into question, then you have a recipe for disaster.

I attended 12 years of Parochial School teaching from the Roman Catholic Church.  I was taught that Genesis was both allegorical and literal.  Some teachers believed in evolution, some didn't.  In other words, the Roman Catholic Church taught a buffet style of religion: you could believe anything you wanted and still be a Catholic.  My atheist brother-in-law offered to become a Roman Catholic for my sister.

After 12 years of Parochial School teaching and a near-death drowning experience, I ended up an agnostic/atheist.  It would be another 10+ years before I read my wife's Dake KJV Bible which explained the Gap Theory that I finally made Jesus Lord of my life.  YEC was an impediment to me coming to Christ, and I don't believe in the Theory of Evolution.

I like what you and Josheb have written even though you have differences.  You seem to be treating each other respectfully.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I think you're in the wrong, here, brother, and need to dial it down some. Both of you look at the digression that's about to happen. Neither SObG nor you are the topic of the op. 

True.

40 minutes ago, Josheb said:

What do you think about the decrease in Christianity and the increase in atheism in the US? 

SObG: I think Matt Slick has explained this: improper Christian teaching, the Church failing the culture, and an increase in secularism and spiritual oppression. 
David: Evolution is the cause given by most youth when asked. 
Josh: I don't think decrease/increase is happening even though I agree there's a lack of teaching and cultural influence in the face of secularism, spiritual struggle, and evolution. 

Where's the conflict in those views?

I again highly recommend everyone pick up a copy of 1) Francis Schaeffer's trilogy and 2) Nancy Pearcey's "Total Truth." These books help us be part of the solution, not the problem I believe these authors were provided by Christ for that purpose (Eph. 4). 

I would add to that list is In the Beginnings by Dr. Steven Dill; The Bible, Genesis and Geology by Dr. Gaines R. Johnson; Merrill C. Unger's Commentary on the OT (2 Volumes); Believer's Bible Commentary; Bible Knowledge Commentary and scores of other conservative scholarship available to us Christians.  I do not believe in litmus tests for Christianity beyond Jesus own inspired words or those uttered by Paul:

(Ephesians 2:8)  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

(Ephesians 2:9)  not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

(Ephesians 2:10)  For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.  [NASB]

 

[David1701]

57 minutes ago, Josheb said:

This op does not ask about Britain; it asks specifically about the US. Is it being suggested the same exact cause is/will occur in the US? Even though it's been more than a half-century since the 1970s and 150 years since The Descent of Man? 

I hope it doesn't happen in the U.S. - it's horrible and heartbreaking.  Actually, I don't think it will be the same in the U.S., since the U.S. has a stronger Christian basis than Britain.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I attended 12 years of Parochial School teaching from the Roman Catholic Church.  I was taught that Genesis was both allegorical and literal.  Some teachers believed in evolution, some didn't.  In other words, the Roman Catholic Church taught a buffet style of religion: you could believe anything you wanted and still be a Catholic.  My atheist brother-in-law offered to become a Roman Catholic for my sister.

After 12 years of Parochial School teaching and a near-death drowning experience, I ended up an agnostic/atheist.  It would be another 10+ years before I read my wife's Dake KJV Bible which explained the Gap Theory that I finally made Jesus Lord of my life.  YEC was an impediment to me coming to Christ, and I don't believe in the Theory of Evolution.

I like what you and Josheb have written even though you have differences.  You seem to be treating each other respectfully.

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible has more errors than any other study Bible I have ever seen.  I used to work in a Christian book shop that sold it and I used to own one.  Once I found out about it, by reading it, I refused to sell it (and I discovered that previous members of staff had also refused to sell it).

It was your unbelief that was an impediment to you coming to Christ, not the clear teaching of Genesis (literal days of creation).

You seem to be treating God's word in Genesis very disrespectfully, as well as slandering genuine Christians like Ken Ham.  You need to pray about it.