Calvinism - epilog to Rom 9 study

[bcbsr]

Calvinism

A critique on a bit of post-Biblical theology. Just for readers to be aware, those of a Calvinistic theology, a theology largely associated with Reformed Theology, have a significantly different view of much of scripture than what I've been teaching, this chapter being an example, though many a so-called "Calvinist" today doesn't accept every aspect of Calvinism.

Calvinistic Misconception: God holds people accountable for things over which they have no control. Example: God imputes the guilt of Adam's sin to those who didn't actually commit the sin. And He imputes such guilt before they are even born, thus condemning the innocent. But they go on to reason that God's justice cannot be scrutinized as God is just by definition and not because he does or fails to do things which are inherently just by human standards. Indeed many a Calvinist I've talked with will often say, "God is not just in human terms". (Or to say it another way, "In human terms, Calvinistic theology teaches that God is not just.")

Calvinism holds a fatalistic view both of salvation and condemnation. For in both cases man's free will has no part in determining their fate. Indeed Calvinism goes so far as to deny the free will altogether, opting rather for a puppet theology. Thus under Calvinism people are condemned not because of any decision on their part, but simply because God arbitrarily wills it. And likewise with regards to salvation.

There are a number of ideas that logically follow from this. One is that God doesn't want everyone to be saved. This in contrast to 1Tim 2:4 which says that God "wants all men to be saved". In fact Calvin writes that God takes pleasure in the destruction of the unelect.  (Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 7) In contrast God says, "I take no pleasure in the death of anyone." Eze 18:32 And this also impinges on the concept of God's love. For what is it to say that "God is love" if he holds people accountable for things over which they have not control, and takes pleasure in their eternal condemnation, while having the ability to save them? How can the Calvinist say, as the Bible says, "God so loved the world"?

According to John 1:12 faith qualifies one to be born of God. Calvinism gets that backwards claming that being born of God must precede faith. In fact Calvin tells us that faith is not a necessary requirement, but rather that salvation can be inherited by simply being born of Christian parents. Furthermore under Calvinism one has no control over one's fate, one's faith or one's behavior. People are viewed as merely puppets. There's no free will. All which is contrary to the way the Bible speaks of such things. Not likely to hear a Calvinist preach the gospel as Peter did. For With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40

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The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

[enoob57]

Yes it's conflict is apparent to Scripture yet one of my favorite teachers of Scripture is John MacArthur...

I believe a good theology in this matter is represented by this site https://soteriology101.com/

[WayneS]

Thanks for the well written description of free will and Calvinism 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

….Not to mention John Calvin the father of Calvinism was responsible for burning Christians whom did not agree to his doctrines.

 

 

 

[Marathoner]

That wasn't unheard of in his day. Consider the infamous Salem Witch Trials of the late 17th century wherein 19 people were executed by Christian authorities for the crime of witchcraft, based upon the dreams and "testimony" of teenage girls. These trials were the vestige of a trend which started in continental Europe; by the time of the Salem Witch Trials they had all but ended in Europe. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Marathoner
typos

[Marathoner]

Lest we forget the Anabaptists who were persecuted by Protestant and Roman Catholic authorities alike. They were tortured, hanged, drowned, and burned at the stake.   

Edited October 29, 2020 by Marathoner
typos

[David1701]

9 hours ago, bcbsr said:

Calvinism

A critique on a bit of post-Biblical theology. Just for readers to be aware, those of a Calvinistic theology, a theology largely associated with Reformed Theology, have a significantly different view of much of scripture than what I've been teaching, this chapter being an example, though many a so-called "Calvinist" today doesn't accept every aspect of Calvinism.

Calvinistic Misconception: God holds people accountable for things over which they have no control. Example: God imputes the guilt of Adam's sin to those who didn't actually commit the sin. And He imputes such guilt before they are even born, thus condemning the innocent. But they go on to reason that God's justice cannot be scrutinized as God is just by definition and not because he does or fails to do things which are inherently just by human standards. Indeed many a Calvinist I've talked with will often say, "God is not just in human terms". (Or to say it another way, "In human terms, Calvinistic theology teaches that God is not just.")

Calvinism holds a fatalistic view both of salvation and condemnation. For in both cases man's free will has no part in determining their fate. Indeed Calvinism goes so far as to deny the free will altogether, opting rather for a puppet theology. Thus under Calvinism people are condemned not because of any decision on their part, but simply because God arbitrarily wills it. And likewise with regards to salvation.

There are a number of ideas that logically follow from this. One is that God doesn't want everyone to be saved. This in contrast to 1Tim 2:4 which says that God "wants all men to be saved". In fact Calvin writes that God takes pleasure in the destruction of the unelect.  (Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 7) In contrast God says, "I take no pleasure in the death of anyone." Eze 18:32 And this also impinges on the concept of God's love. For what is it to say that "God is love" if he holds people accountable for things over which they have not control, and takes pleasure in their eternal condemnation, while having the ability to save them? How can the Calvinist say, as the Bible says, "God so loved the world"?

According to John 1:12 faith qualifies one to be born of God. Calvinism gets that backwards claming that being born of God must precede faith. In fact Calvin tells us that faith is not a necessary requirement, but rather that salvation can be inherited by simply being born of Christian parents. Furthermore under Calvinism one has no control over one's fate, one's faith or one's behavior. People are viewed as merely puppets. There's no free will. All which is contrary to the way the Bible speaks of such things. Not likely to hear a Calvinist preach the gospel as Peter did. For With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Acts 2:40

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The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

This is an abysmal caricature of the truth.  I've participated in debates with Arminians, Calvinists, semi-Pelagians and others; but I have rarely come across such an appallingly bad misrepresentation of what you call "Calvinism".  Incompetent doesn't even begin to cover it.

I don't have the time to deal with your numerous errors; but I'll address one just now.

Most of the Christians whom men might call "Calvinists" (a title invented by a Lutheran, as a way of pinning the doctrines of grace on a man, rather than the Bible) believe in Compatibilism.  This is the teaching that man is free to think and act according to his nature (within the limits of ability and opportunity) AND that God sovereignly works all things according to the counsel of his own will.  People are never viewed as "merely puppets".

[FrankIeCip]

Amen. Also John 3:16. The world is people from all nations, languages and kindreds. Jesus prayed not for the world(literal) but for those the Father has given Him.

 I don’t believe being born to Christians automatically makes you a child of God. 

 We are saved by grace, through faith, NOT OF OURSELVES. It is a GIFT from God. How can anyone think themselves better than anyone else? Who can boast? We RECEIVE nothing unless it is GIVEN by God. 
 

I will be back. Thank you, Frank. 
BTW I post with love for all and love of the Truth. ??

[Michael37]

We are all predestined to breathe oxygen. Just as well it's available.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Yes it's conflict is apparent to Scripture yet one of my favorite teachers of Scripture is John MacArthur...

I believe a good theology in this matter is represented by this site https://soteriology101.com/

John MacArthur is a favorite teacher of Scripture for me too.  I also disagree with his Calvinist views and Genesis origins.  I also studied Calvinist and Reformed Theology as elucidated by R. C. Sproul, but eventually rejected such teaching.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Saved.One.by.Grace