Great tribulation

[kenny2212]

Rev 7:14 - 

 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

I used to think that the great tribulation in this passage referred to the final 7 years. I have now though come to the conclusion that it refers to the first 5 of the 7 seals.

Tribulation is only tribulation before God steps in. When God steps in it becomes God's wrath. Take for example the Israelites in Egypt - You would agree that they sure did have tribulation but that all changed when God stepped in. 

We've been told in the bible that only the 144000 Jews (out of all Christians) remain here (Rev. 7:1-8) during the final 7 years. They will be protected (verse 3) just as the Israelites were in Egypt.

Any questions or comments?

Thanks for reading.

Edited December 10, 2020 by kenny2212

[Bible_Gazer]

Did these saints that could not be numbered come after the 144,000 Jews are sealed ? 

If so

When would the 144,000 be sealed and start doing their works in saving some more people into the kingdom of God ?

? Assuming that these 144000 Jews are the ministry of God, preaching to these people to come out of her.

What tribulation wrath will be used during the next 1,000 years ?

[Revelation Man]

On 11/20/2020 at 6:16 AM, kenny2212 said:

Rev 7:14 - 

 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

I used to think to think that the great tribulation in this passage referred to the final 7 years. I have now though come to the conclusion that it refers to the first 5 of the 7 seals.

Tribulation is only tribulation before God steps in. When God steps in it becomes God's wrath. Take for example the Israelites in Egypt - You would agree that they sure did have tribulation but that all changed when God stepped in. 

We've been told in the bible that only the 144000 Jews (out of all Christians) remain here (Rev. 7:1-8) during the final 7 years. They will be protected (verse 3) just as the Israelites were in Egypt.

Any questions or comments?

Thanks for reading.

My brother. What we do is PIGEONHOLE God in His vocabulary. We DEMAND that those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 has to come out of what WE CALL the Great Tribulation, we don't allow for God to describe more than one thing as GREAT. That is our problem in way too many cases via the scriptures. Point being, Jesus stated we would always have tribulation on this earth in the Gospel of John. So.............

CHURCH AGE = Tribulation.

70th Week = Tribulation

3.5 years of the Greatest Ever Troubles/Tribulation starts along side God's Wrath. 

 

Which of the above is GREATER in length? The Church Age is 2000 some odd years long, but we refuse to call that the "Great Tribulation" in which John is talking about, because we have been taught it can only mean the MOST SEVERE Tribulation ever, but that would be wrong. John was speaking about the Church Age Tribulation  Saints who have been Raptured.

You know how we can tell this is true? Other Scriptures back it up.

In the 5th Seal the Martyrs are told, you MUST WAIT (MUST WAIT) until the rest of your brothers have been killed in like manner as you have !! Its telling us what we should already know down deep, the Anti-Christs tyranny will last for 1260 days, thus the Martyrs will get their revenge at the Second Coming via Jesus' victory at Armageddon.

Then, to back that verse up we see in Rev. 20:4 that only those Saints who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and thus laid down their lives for Christ, are just now getting Judged !! And this is AFTER the Second Coming, so those Martyrs can not have been seen in Heaven. By the way, only those who refuse the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Christ for 1000 years on this earth. I guess those who were Raptured go back to Heaven to ready the New Jerusalem, or to do something else, who knows. But the facts are this, no one gets to go to the Wedding after the doors have been closed, the Parable of the 10 virgins tells us this, that is why they need Oil in their Lamps, the Groom comes at Midnight, if you do not make the Wedding, they will shut the doors. So, after the Rapture, no one is going to Heaven to participate in the Wedding, Jesus will return and then resurrect the Martyrs at that time, along with the Jewish Saints of old.

 

The 144,000 Jews is a CODED way of telling us that ALL Israel who REPENT are saved. In Malachi 4:5-6 we are told Elijah comes to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the coming DOTL. In Zechariah 13:8-9 we are told 1/3 of the Jews repent and 2/3 refuse to repent and thus perish. Well, since there are 15 million Jews in the world, that 144,000 = 5-6 million Jews. 

Numbers have meaning in the bible. 10 means Completeness, 12 means fullness. The number 7 also means completeness, for instance the 7 Eyes and 7 Spirits in Revelation simply means God is everywhere and sees all things. So, 12 x 12 (Fulness) x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 (Completeness) = 144,000 (All Israel), do you get the symbolism now? It just means ALL Israel, not 144,000. Paul said ALL Israel will be saved, not every Jew, but  Israel as a Nation is preserved, thus God's promise unto Abraham is fulfilled. 

They are protected in the Petra/Bozrah area by God for 1260 days (see Rev 12, THE WOMAN).

The Seals do nothing, they are NOT ACTIONABLE, they are Prophetic utterances. Think of the 7 Seals as 7 Locks that have to come off before the book of Judgments can be read aloud. Each time a lock is taken off, Jesus simply utters something that is about to happen, so the First Four Seals are the Coming Anti-Christ via his 42 month rule in earth. The 5th Seal is his 42 months of Martyrs. The 6th Seal is Jesus telling everyone that God Wrath will strike shortly (Asteroid in Rev. 8) and lasts for 42 months. The 7th Seal is SILENCE because Judgment is here, the book can now be opened and read from, the Trumpet Judgments are upon the world.

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

On 11/22/2020 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

My brother. What we do is PIGEONHOLE God in His vocabulary. We DEMAND that those see in Rev. 7:9-17 has to come out of what WE CALL the Great Tribulation, we don't allow for God to describe more than one thing as GREAT. That is our problem in way too many cases via the scriptures. Point being, Jesus stated we would always have tribulation on this earth on the Gospel of John. So...

The real problem is we don't trust God when He labels something. We apply our own meaning to, whatever, and change the definitions and labels to fit our needs. 

On 11/22/2020 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

CHURCH AGE = Tribulation.

70th Week = Tribulation

3.5 years of the Greatest Ever Troubles/Tribulation starts along side God's Wrath.

Only called 'great' in one instance. The 'Church Age' is not called great tribulation in scripture and neither is the 70th week. And this by your own words.

On 11/22/2020 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

Which of the above is GREATER in length? The Church Age is 2000 some odd years long, but we refuse to call the the "Great Tribulation" in which John is talking about, because we have been taught it cam only mean the MOST SEVERE Tribulation ever, but that would be wrong. John was speaking about the Church Age Tribulation  Saints who have been Raptured.

Well...yeah. Since Jesus said in no uncertain terms that's exactly what he meant. And Jesus didn't speak to time spans and equivalent to 'great', He spoke to the following:

 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

Here is the only time tribultion is called 'great' in reference to the end of the age and Jesus' return; and it's only after the A of D. Unmatched? So nothing like it before or after...So you must be saying that after the A of D in 167 BC there was unmatched distress such as was not from the beginning of the world. So you are going to ignore the Black Death, Spanish Flu, the Inquisition, Lenin's purges, Mao's reeducation, the Holocaust, the 2004 Tsunami? 

This period of time called 'great tribulation' can only come after the A of D which occurs in proximity to the return of Jesus and the rise of the end of the age beast. It's not 2000 years....

 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

How is it that it's 2000 years long  when it's supposed to be cut short or no one would be left alive?

On 11/22/2020 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

In the 5th Seal the Martyrs are told, you MUST WAIT (MUST WAIT) until the rest of your brothers have been killed in like manner as you have !! Its telling us what we should already know down deep, the Anti-Christs tyranny will last for 1260 days, thus the Martyrs will get their revenge at the Second Coming via Jesus' victory at Armageddon.

Then to back that verse up we see in Rev. 20:4 that those Saints who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and thus laid down their lives for Christ, are just not getting Judged !! And this is AFTER the Second Coming, so those Martyrs can not have been seen in Heaven. By the way, only those who refuse the Mark of the Beast live and reign with Christ for 1000 years on this earth. I guess those who were Raptured go back to Heaven to ready the New Jerusalem, or to do something else, who knows. But the facts are this, no one gets to go to the Wedding after the doors have been closed, the Parable of the 10 virgins tells us thus, that is why they need Oil in their Lamps, the Groom comes at Midnight, if you do not make the Wedding, they will shut the doors. So, after the Rapture, no one is voting to Heaven, Jesus will return and then resurrect the Martyrs at that time, along with the Jewish Saints of old.

 

The 144,000 Jews is a CODED way of telling us that ALL Israel who REPENT are saved. In Malachi 4:5-6 we are told Elijah comes to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the coming DOTL. In Zechariah 13:8-9 we are told 1/3 of the Jews repent and 2/3 refuse to repent and thus perish. Well, since there are 15 million Jews in the world, that 144,000 = 5-6 million Jews. 

Numbers have meaning in the bible. 10 means Completeness, 12 means fullness. The number 7 also means completeness, for instance the 7 Eyes and 7 Spirits in Revelation simply means God is everywhere and sees all things. So, 12 x 12 (Fulness) x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000, do you get the symbolism now? It just means ALL Israel, not 144,000. Paul said ALL Israel will be saved, not every Jew, but  Israel as a Nation is preserved, thus God's promise unto Abraham is fulfilled. 

They are protected in the Petra/Bozrah area by God for 1260 days (see Rev 12, THE WOMAN).

This is just one big scarecrow.

On 11/22/2020 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Seal do nothing, they are NOT ACTIONABLE, they are Prophetic utterances.

The first seal is opened and a conqueror rides out.

The 2nd seal is loosed and war occurs.

The 3rd seal is broken and the economies crash.

I don't know how it's assumed nothing happens till all the seals are opened when scripture clearly says as each seal in loosed an event occurs.

On 11/22/2020 at 4:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

Think of the 7 Seals as 7 Locks that have to come off before the book of Judgments can be read aloud.

"Think of it like this..." said everyone trying to manipulate the masses across all time and throughout the known universe.

Satan said, "Think of it like this...." when he told Eve, "“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”"

[Revelation Man]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Diaste said:

The real problem is we don't trust God when He labels something. We apply our own meaning to, whatever, and change the definitions and labels to fit our needs. 

On 11/22/2020 at 5:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

That would be you not understanding in this instance brother, but in this case you have 99 percent of the people with you for a change instead of being on the outs with most of Christendom, but my calling is Prophecy and end time events, and solving riddles like this, via misunderstandings. 

You don't dispute my facts because you can't brother. Those Martyrs are told they MUST WAIT......FACT......

The Saints being Judged in Revelation 20:4 are Judged AFTER Jesus' Return........FACT.......

So, those seen in Revelation 7:9-17 can not have come out of the 70th week tribulation, even though it is the Greatest Ever Troubles, but they can come out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Great Tribulation because after all 2000>7. Is not 2000 GREATER than 7 ? You, and others allow yourself to MISS the FACTS with your preconceived notions of how God/John can describe things in only ONE MANNER and you limit the way God/John can describe things. I don't. I add it all up, those in the 70th week can not make the Wedding, that is the custom for any Jewish (especially Galilean) Wedding, Jesus told you that in the parable, if you would just listen brother. Once you miss the Bridegrooms call, you WILL BE shut out. The same tradition was used in the Jewish customs. Jesus was only uttering these Jewish customs unto the Disciples because he knew they understood these things. They were Galileans just like Jesus was, thus they understood these Wedding Customs. 

1.) The Galileans offer the betrothed a cup of wine, this was a sign of Covenant if she drank the wine (think: Last Supper) Thus they were technically married from THAT POINT but did not live together for at least a year. They HAD TO STAY APART, (think Church Age, Jesus is in Heaven, we are on earth)

2.) After the betrothal, the Groom would leave to prepare a place for his Bride, just like Jesus said in John 14. The Groom would have to build onto his fathers house. Many anthropologists think instead of John 14:2 saying "MANY MANSIONS' it should actually read "MANY BRIDAL CHAMBERS". It however is still the same point, the Bride is going to be brought to the Father's house (Heaven). So, Jesus follows this parallel step by step.

3.) Matthew 24:36, Jesus says no man knows the Day nor the Hour but the Father only. In the Galilean tradition, the Bride nor the Groom knew the hour of the wedding ceremony, only the father of the groom knew when he was going to tell the son to go get the Bride, he finds the bride for his son, he reads the conditions, he provides anything needed, he oversees the preparations, after all it is his house that is being built on to. He has full view of everything that is going on, so they didn't know the day, nor the hour, BUT, they of course knew THE SEASON was nigh. Foods being ordered/prepared for the feast, rooms are finished etc. etc. So the town generally knew that it was close at hand. We know as the Church by looking around us, it is close at hand, but only God the Father knows the EXACT MOMENT that He is going to say Son, go get your Bride. Amen. 

4.) When the groom does go get his bride in Galilean tradition, he blows a Trumpet, just like in the Rapture, and he carries her back to the fathers house. Where they abide for 7 days (7 years).

5.) The Galilean Wedding Feast lasted 7 days and 7 nights. They had very strict rules about this also, if you were invited to the wedding, you HAD TO go at the beginning, you had to get in before the doors were shut, again, this all usually happened in the middle of the night and that's why they blew the Trumpet, to awake the Bride and the Guests who were ready and awaiting to go, they were expecting this Trumpet sound at any moment. If you weren't ready to go and missed that small window, you would be SHUT OUT of the Wedding. Thus the 10 virgins must keep a full lamp of oil at the ready, because they were being called at midnight. Thus the 5 virgins who miss the wedding (those Martyrs seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal) will not get into the wedding during the Marriage Ceremony.  

THE DOORS WILL NOT OPEN..........Jesus told us this, yet those seen in Heaven  in Rev. 7:9-17 are supposedly coming out of the Great Tribulation, but they CAN'T GET IN !! Jesus said so. Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Church Age Saints who were Raptured to Heaven by the Bridegroom Jesus Christ, unto the Marriage Chambers, in Heaven (Fathers House). 

This 10 minute video pretty much shows my position on this.

Does the symbolism behind the ancient Galilean wedding prove a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church? Find out with guest Brent Miller Jr and Nathan Jones

https://youtu.be/hBgUnhR2Prw

Edited November 27, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Diaste said:

Only called 'great' in one instance. The 'Church Age' is not called great tribulation in scripture and neither is the 70th week. And this by your own words.

I follow the FACTS............You follow tradition......in this case at least.

On 11/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Diaste said:

Well...yeah. Since Jesus said in no uncertain terms that's exactly what he meant. And Jesus didn't speak to time spans and equivalent to 'great', He spoke to the following:

 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again.

Here is the only time tribultion is called 'great' in reference to the end of the age and Jesus' return; and it's only after the A of D. Unmatched? So nothing like it before or after...So you must be saying that after the A of D in 167 BC there was unmatched distress such as was not from the beginning of the world. So you are going to ignore the Black Death, Spanish Flu, the Inquisition, Lenin's purges, Mao's reeducation, the Holocaust, the 2004 Tsunami? 

This period of time called 'great tribulation' can only come after the A of D which occurs in proximity to the return of Jesus and the rise of the end of the age beast. It's not 2000 years....

 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

How is it that it's 2000 years long  when it's supposed to be cut short or no one would be left alive?

Rev. 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Here you go, this is a PLACE where the Church Age is also DESCRIBED as the Great Tribulation [Period]. 

No Wedding Guests are allowed in after the Trumpet is sounded. This can ONLY BE the Raptured Church, the same one we see in Rev. 5:9 who are there BEFORE the Seals are ever opened. And you know this to be true. THE BIBLE SAYS SO.

You LIMIT/Pigeonhole what God can DESCRIBE as GREAT to only ONE THING......That just boggles my mind tbh.

Nothing is CUT SHORT, again, another misconception by those who do not think these issues through. Since the whole 70th week is DESIGNED around 7 years and a 1260 day period of Wrath which also sees the Anti-Christ given free reign on earth for the same 1260 day period, how is God going to fulfill all of His prophecies designed around 7 years and 1260 days and then  also CUT IT SHORT? He can't and won't, the whole CUTTING IT SHORT is a misconception. 

Who is cutting what SHORT? God is cutting the Anti-Christs life on earth short, which simply means hes going to be killed after his 42 month reign by God, whereas if he was not killed by Jesus and cast into hell, then he would continue ruling on earth and he would eventually kill all mankind !! That is all Jesus is saying. After his 42 month rule, his NATURAL TIME ON EARTH will be cut to THAT SPECIFIC already Prophesied time of 42 months.

Jesus was speaking of cutting this tyrants rule down unto the Prophesied 42 month LIMIT. Or else the 42 months would have been LONGER !! So, God is telling us He's going to cut his time short (by killing him) and you and many others interpret it wrongly. That is on you, not God brother, you have to think these things through. 

Again, the 2000 years of the Church Age Tribulation  has ZERO to do with the 7 Years and the 3.5 years. God can describe more than ONE THING as Great. The KEY is figuring out what God/John was speaking about as per being GREAT in each instance. In the Revelation 7:9-17 instance John is speaking about the Church Age Tribulation period. It can be nothing else brother.

On 11/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Diaste said:

This is just one big scarecrow.

On 11/22/2020 at 5:36 PM, Revelation Man said:

I understand, you have no rebut.

On 11/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Diaste said:

The first seal is opened and a conqueror rides out.

The 2nd seal is loosed and war occurs.

The 3rd seal is broken and the economies crash.

I don't know how it's assumed nothing happens till all the seals are opened when scripture clearly says as each seal in loosed an event occurs.

Because the Anti-Christ RIDES or GOES FORTH when it is opened brother (Meaning all 7 Seals are off). He GOES FORTH when the First Trumpet Sounds, the Asteroid Strike in Rev. 8. What I am saying is the Seals are akin to LOCKS, Jesus is taking the Seals/Locks to a Judgment book off, and each time he loosens one, he makes a Prophetic ANNOUNCEMENT of what is about to BEFALL mankind shortly. 

Notice when he's taking them off, in Rev, 6, just before the 144,000 (5 million Jews who Repent) Flee Judea to the Petra area in Revelation chapter 7, which happens at the 1290, which is 30 days before the 1260 (DOTL.......Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments....Wrath of God begins) So, the Anti-Christ, who understands Black Magic (Dark Sentences) will understand via Satan exactly when he is supposed to strike/GO FORTH CONQUERING. He waits for the Chaos, the Asteroid Strike in Rev. 8, then while everyone else in the world is trying to help what I think is an Asteroid strike on the USA's Pacific Coastline, he's going to STRIKE amidst the chaos. The USA will be in utter shambles (ONE MAIN  FOE DOWN) and everyone else heads will be turned the other way. Satan is brilliant in his tactics, of course, he's other worldly. But he was stupid in thinking he could take over God's position. So in the end, he's a BIG DUMMY. But, the Seals are not ACTIONABLE, which only means the Judgments start with the Trumps, not the Seals.

Seals 1-4 are ALL the 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ. Seal #5 is his 42 months of Martyrs of the Remnant Church. It's just Jesus prophesying what's about to come on earth.

Seal #6 is Jesus telling us God's Wrath is NIGH at hand. Seal number 7 is God's Wrath ARRIVING, the last Seal/Lock is off the book of Judgments, the judgments can now go forth onto mankind. So, as God's WRATH is brought forth, this Anti-Christ uses this to cloak his actions, he goes forth amidst the CHAOS. 

On 11/26/2020 at 6:22 AM, Diaste said:

"Think of it like this..." said everyone trying to manipulate the masses across all time and throughout the known universe.

Satan said, "Think of it like this...." when he told Eve, "“You will not surely die,” the serpent told her. 5“For God knows that in the day you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”"

One day you will get it, even if that day is in Heaven and it all comes unto you, "WOW, that Rev. Man was spot on on every thing he told me". 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Here you go, this is a PLACE where the Church Age is also DESCRIBED as the Great Tribulation [Period]. 

You have no proof 'great tribulation' is equivalent to the 'church age'; a non existent concept in the entirety of holy writ. Try as you all might, till judgment day and trumpet sound, there is no proof but instead direct contradiction to the doctrine of 'church age'.

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No Wedding Guests are allowed in after the Trumpet is sounded. This can ONLY BE the Raptured Church, the same one we see in Rev. 5:9 who are there BEFORE the Seals are ever opened. And you know this to be true. THE BIBLE SAYS SO.

I see no scripture verse that says this. Ergo, I conclude it's man speaking here and not the Spirit.

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You LIMIT/Pigeonhole what God can DESCRIBE as GREAT to only ONE THING......That just boggles my mind tbh.

No. But I don't add what isn't there. If it's not described by the Lord in such a way we have no business telling the Lord God how it should be described. Boundaries, man. Find 'em. Abide by them.

I guess I have a real mental problem when it comes to scripture; I read and believe and I trust the Lord Jesus. That's really screwed up in light of man's proclivity to exalt himself. Well, it's clear you know better than God.

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Nothing is CUT SHORT, again, another misconception by those who do not think these issues through. Since the whole 70th week is DESIGNED around 7 years and a 1260 day period of Wrath which also sees the Anti-Christ given free reign on earth for the same 1260 day period, how is God going to fulfill all of His prophecies designed around 7 years and 1260 days and then  also CUT IT SHORT? He can't and won't, the whole CUTTING IT SHORT is a misconception. 

Following we have one of three times 'great tribulation' is mentioned. It's in the context of the end of the age and Jesus' coming:

 

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

It's pretty obvious great tribulation is indeed cut short in spite of what your peddling.

there will be great tribulation,  

those days will be cut short.

those days will be cut short.

those days will be cut short.

those days will be cut short.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Who is cutting what SHORT? God is cutting the Anti-Christs life on earth short, which simply means hes going to be killed after his 42 month reign by God, whereas if he was nit killed by Jesus and cast into hell, then he would continue ruling on earth and he would eventually kill all mankind !! That is all Jesus is saying. After hi 42 month rule, his NATURAL TIME ON EARTH will be cut to THAT SPECIFIC already Prophesied time of 42 months.

Pretty obvious from above the 'cut short' is speaking to great tribulation. Scripture does not say antichrist is killed.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the FALSE prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone..."

Where you come up with this stuff...smh.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Because the Anti-Christ RIDE or GO FORTH when it is opened brother. He GOES FORTH when the First Trumpet Sounds, the Asteroid Strike in Rev. 8. What I am saying is the Seals are akin to LOCKS, Jesus is taking the Seals/Locks to a Judgment Book off, and each time he loosens one, he makes a Prophetic ANNOUNCEMENT of what is about to BEFALL Mankind shortly. 

Your own ears can't hear what your lips say. Nice contradiction. Stellar inconsistency. Astonishing confusion. 

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Seal number 7 is God's Wrath ARRIVING, the last Seal/Lock is off the book of Judgments, the judgments can now go forth onto mankind.

Incorrect! God's wrath arrives at the 7th trumpet per the scriptures of truth:

7th Trumpet:

"And the seventh angel sounded...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come..." - Rev 11

7th Seal:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." - Rev 8

Literally all that is said about the 7th seal. No wrath here. As you can see from the above wrath IS come at the 7th Trumpet.

Ignore it if you like, your prerogative.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Seals 1-4 are ALL the 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ. Seal #5 is his 42 months of Martyrs of the Remnant Church.

No. That would be 84 months. The beast only has power for 42 months. But you go....

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

One day you will get it, even if that day is in Heaven and it all comes unto you, WOW, that Rev. Man was spot on on every thing he told me. 

Funny. Also incorrect.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You don't dispute my facts because you can't brother. Those Martyrs are told they MUST WAIT......FACT......

The Saints being Judged in Revelation 20:4 are Judged AFTER Jesus' Return........FACT.......

These are true.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, those seen in Revelation 7:9-17 can not have come out of the 70th week tribulation, even though it is the Greatest Ever Troubles, but they can come out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Great Tribulation because after all 2000>7. Is not 2000 GREATER than 7 ?

Yes, 2000>7. But that comparison is only made in your doctrine. It's fine. You can have it. It means nothing.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

You, and others allow yourself to MISS the FACTS with your preconceived notions of how God/John can describe things in only ONE MANNER and you limit the way God/John can describe things. I don't. I add it all up, those in the 70th week can not make the Wedding, that is the custom for any Jewish Wedding, Jesus told you that in the parable, if you would just listen brother. One you miss the Bridegrooms call, you WILL BE shut out. The same tradition was used in the Jewish customs. Jesus was only uttering these Jewish customs unto the Disciples because he knew they understood these things. They were Galileans just like Jesus was, thus they understood these Wedding Customs. 

I limit based on what God has said. See, I know He is wiser and smarter than all men put together. In fact as scripture has said, "The wisdom of man is foolishness to God." I take His word over all others. Including you.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

1.) The Galileans offer the betrothed a cup of wine, this was a sign of Covenant if she drank the wine (think: Last Supper) Thus they were technically married from THAT POINT but did not live together for at least a year. They HAD TO STAY APART, (think Church Age, Jesus is in Heaven, we are on earth)

2.) After the betrothal, the Groom would leave to prepare a place for his Bride, just like Jesus said in John 14. The Groom would have to build onto his fathers house. Many anthropologists think instead of John 14:2 saying "MANY MANSIONS' it should actually read "MANY BRIDAL CHAMBERS". It however is still the same point, the Bride is going to be brought to the Father's house (Heaven). So, Jesus follows this parallel step by step.

3.) Matthew 24:36, Jesus says no man knows the Day nor the Hour but the Father only. In the Galilean tradition, the Bride nor the Groom knew the hour of the wedding ceremony, only the father of the groom knew when he was going to tell the sin to go get the Bride, he finds the bride for his son, he reads the conditions, he provides anything needed, he oversees the preparations, after all it is his house that is being built on to. He has full view of everything that is going on, so they didn't know the day, nor the hour, BUT, they of course knew THE SEASON was nigh. Foods being ordered/prepared for the feast, rooms are finished etc. etc. So the town generally knew that it was close at hand. We know as the Church by looking around us, it is close at hand, but only God the Father knows the EXACT MOMENT that He is going to say Son, go get your Bride. Amen. 

4.) When the groom does go get his bride in Galilean tradition, he blows a Trumpet, just like in the Rapture, and he carries her back to the fathers house. Where the abide for 7 days (7 years).

5.) The Galilean Wedding Feast lasted 7 days and 7 nights. They had very strict rules about this also, if you were invited to the wedding, you HAD TO go at the beginning, you had to get in before the doors were shut, again, this all usually happened in the middle of the night and that's why they blew the Trumpet, to awake the Bride and the Guests who were ready and awaiting to go, they were expecting this Trumpet sound at any moment. If you weren't ready to go and missed that small window, you would be SHUT OUT of the Wedding. Thus the 10 virgins must keep a full lamp of oil at the ready, because they were being called at midnight. Thus the 5 virgins who miss the wedding (those Martyrs seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal) will not get into the wedding during the Marriage Ceremony.  

THE DOORS WILL NOT OPEN..........Jesus told us this, yet those seen in Heaven  in Rev. 7:9-17 are supposedly coming out of the Great Tribulation, but they CAN'T GET IN !! Jesus said so. Those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 are the Church Age Saints who were Raptured to Heaven by the Bridegroom Jesus Christ, unto the Marriage Chambers, in Heaven (Fathers House). 

In my limited knowledge and understanding of the parallels of the wedding tradition I cannot verify this all to be factual. From what I have learned it is close enough to what Jesus taught so you'll get no dispute from me in the very specific list of facts above.

But none of the above comports with pretrib timing.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

This 10 minute video pretty much shows my position on this.

Does the symbolism behind the ancient Galilean wedding prove a Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church? Find out with guest Brent Miller Jr and Nathan Jones

https://youtu.be/hBgUnhR2Prw

Some may care about video rife with confirmation bias. I do not.

[Revelation Man]

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

You have no proof 'great tribulation' is equivalent to the 'church age'; a non existent concept in the entirety of holy writ. Try as you all might, till judgment day and trumpet sound, there is no proof but instead direct contradiction to the doctrine of 'church age'.

Yes I do, I explained it to you but you wish to look past the facts I cited. Those in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT COME out of the 70th Week, so they can only come out of the Church Age [tribulation period]. Can't you add that up brother? You see, I prove this with scriptures !!

Rev. 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, (1)How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; (2)and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

1.) HOW LONG these men ask Jesus (of course this is a Prophetic utterance by Jesus, so he's just telling us "THEIR HEARTS DESIRE") until you you avenge us via those men on earth [who killed us].  So Jesus tells us.

2.) They should REST for a SEASON (42 Months of course) until their Fellow Brothers are killed (by the Anti-Christ) as they were, over a 42 month period SHALL FULFILLED. (How long does the Anti-Christ have per Prophesy? Well, we know its 42 months.

So, these seen here CAN NOT be the people seen in Rev. 7:9-17. That is a cold hard factoid. We back that up with Rev. 20:4.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and (3)they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and (4)I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

3.)The Church/Bride who returns with Jesus are set up on Judgment Seats (know ye not we will Judge Angels?) 

4.) Whose Souls are seen in Rev. 20:4 ? Those who were BEHEADED for Jesus' name (Martyrs under the Altar via the 5th Seal), the ONLY people who ever lived who can say they DIED whilst REFUSING to take the Mark of the Beast, no one but those living during this 1260 day period on earth can say this except these select peoples, and they GET JUDGED HERE.........After Jesus' return brother. Here is the thing, I know you are very intelligent brother, and I think you know the EXACT POINT I am making is true. Thus, THOSE MARTYRS under the Altar seen in the 5th Seal, which really just Prophesies the coming Martyrs during the Beasts 42 month reign, can't be the ones seen in Rev. 7:9-17. Thus it can only be the Raptured Church. 

I just PROVED those in  Rev. 7:9-17 can not have come out of the 70th week. So, you do the math, who are they? 100 Percent proven factoid brother, they are the Raptured Church.

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

I see no scripture verse that says this. Ergo, I conclude it's man speaking here and not the Spirit.

Quote

You see exactly what I do, you are in denial brother. I do not make mistakes when I know, that I know, that I know.....I KNOW. Now, if I say I don't know or don't understand, that is an open ended question mark. But when I walk something down, like having 3 queens in a Chess match vs a King, its over. When I know what I know, I know it. 

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

No. But I don't add what isn't there. If it's not described by the Lord in such a way we have no business telling the Lord God how it should be described. Boundaries, man. Find 'em. Abide by them.

I guess I have a real mental problem when it comes to scripture; I read and believe and I trust the Lord Jesus. That's really screwed up in light of man's proclivity to exalt himself. Well, it's clear you know better than God.

I don't either, I know God can't lie, so those in the Rev. 7:9-17 verses can not come out of the 70th week, thus they can ONLY come out of the Church Age, so do think that didn't bother me when I understand in my spirit up until 5 or 6 years ago, how can these people come out of the tribulation when they CAN'T come out of the tribulation? It was an Oxy-moronic situation I was in, I was like, this makes no understanding God, they can't come out of the Great Tribulation. You state in Seal #5 and in Rev. 20:4 they can't come out of the 70th week. Then I remembered the Holy Spirit told me the reason I couldn't solve all these issues and learn these things in full, was because of Men's Traditions, so I said to myself, let me relook at this with an OPEN MIND !! So I did, I knew they couldn't come out of the 70th week, so who were they? Well, I knew the Church was Raptured pre 70th week so they have to be the Church I told myself, so I had to figure out why John stated they came out of the Great Tribulation. 

Eureka, I remembered Jesus' own words, "Ye will have continual tribulation in this world" via the Gospel of John. So, ALL TIME is Tribulation, the Church Age where millions of our brothers were murdered for their beliefs, the 70th week and the 3.5 years. Then it hit me, John is describing the Church Age as the LONGEST PERIOD as in Greater than the 70th Week 7 year period. We have ZERO right to say John can't describe a 2000 some odd year period as GREATER than a One Week period. If it fits, it fits. And it fits brother. The other will not fit, because we know those can not come out of the 70th week.

When  one WILL FIT......................................and the other WILL NOT FIT. Its an easy option brother. You are trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

Following we have one of three times 'great tribulation' is mentioned. It's in the context of the end of the age and Jesus' coming:

 

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

It's pretty obvious great tribulation is indeed cut short in spite of what your peddling.

 

there will be great tribulation,  

those days will be cut short.

those days will be cut short.

those days will be cut short.

those days will be cut short.

Yes, if Jesus did not RETURN, the Anti-Christ would rule MORE than 42 Months right? 

Just because God knows the beginning from the end, and has ALREADY prophesied the ENDING, doesn't mean when Jesus returns that he doesn't cut the Anti-Christs Rule on earth short from what would NATURALLY OCCUR !! 

You miss the whole prophesy, God can't lie, the Beast has 42 Months to rule. God has set that time to a SPECIFIC TIME PERIOD. Thus when Jesus returns and and kills the Beast and then throws him and the False Prophet into hell, did he not CUT THE TRIBULATUON SHORT ? Yes, he did, it would have went on and on until mankind was wiped out. Once again, you misconstrue God's intention in this instance.

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

Pretty obvious from above the 'cut short' is speaking to great tribulation. Scripture does not say antichrist is killed.

"And the beast was taken, and with him the FALSE prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone..."

Where you come up with this stuff...smh.

He cuts his life short of what it would have been. Via your "THEORY" God told a lie about the length of not only the Anti-Christ rule, but how long the 70th week was. Via MY UNDERSTANDING, all these things are FULFILLED and God cuts the Anti-Christs rule SHORT by KILLING him and casting him into hellfire, AND the Prophesies all still come true. My whole point about you not thinking these things through still stands. God can't lie. You have to make BOTH the Prophesies AND the fact that he cuts something short come true. I do that via logic brother. God can't lie, thus I knw the 7 years and 42 months have be TRUTHFUL PROPHESIES, and then I go from there. You start off with God's Prophesies not coming to pass. That's a NO GO Brother.

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

Your own ears can't hear what your lips say. Nice contradiction. Stellar inconsistency. Astonishing confusion. 

On 11/26/2020 at 1:48 PM, Revelation Man said:

Your nickname for me in Heaven will be the know it all who knew it all.............

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

Incorrect! God's wrath arrives at the 7th trumpet per the scriptures of truth:

7th Trumpet:

"And the seventh angel sounded...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come..." - Rev 11

7th Seal:

"And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." - Rev 8

Literally all that is said about the 7th seal. No wrath here. As you can see from the above wrath IS come at the 7th Trumpet.

Ignore it if you like, your prerogative.

Ummm, NO, the Wrath of God lasts 42 months. Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses chapter, so, at anytime during that chapter, the Wrath of God had come, they were called to turn Israel back unto God just BEFORE God's Wrath fell at the Midway point. (Trump 1-4 are all the EXACT SAME EVENT). The Three Woes are the Last Three Trumps, Rev 8:13 tells us that, thus the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials. The Trumps are the Wrath of God, thus those people were correct, the Wrath came via the Trumps, which they were in the midst of. If we were at an Alabama football game, and the 4th quarter started, and a bunch of fans sang out, you are in the Wrath of Bama via a little song mocking a team behind by 49, when did the game(Wrath) start? In the 1st quarter, not during the 4th quarter. 

The Wrath is the first Four Trumpet Judgments, they are ALL the same Asteroid Strike. The Fire comes in first, the Mountain comes in 2nd, the SAME ASTEROID is shown coming in HOT because that Nuclear type fusion/explosion is what will be poisonous to the waters. And the 4th Trump PROVES this is God's Wrath via Joel 2:31 AND Seal number 6. SEE BELOW !!

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

 

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Notice in Joel 2:30-31, WONDERS in Heaven are seen, blood and fire/smoke pillars. The Sun is DARKENED and moon is TURNED to Blood BEFORE (in the Presence of.......before the FACE OF) the Day of the Lord.

Then in Rev. 6, we see that there is a GREAT ERTHQUAKE, well this ASTEROID IMPACT will shake the whole world. The Sun becomes DARK but why? Well, 1/3 of the trees are Burning, and all the grasses, and what will that many trees burning do to the hue of the Moon? Turn it red, of course, EUREKA !! And also darken it somewhat via the smoke pillars which also darken the sun. I personally think the Stars of Heaven is the Demons being cast down to earth as UNTIMELY FIGS. It is THIER TIME, they ae RIPE to be cast out of Heaven and down unto earth, Satan will come to earth with a great wrath. 

NOTICE: They call this the Wrath of the Lamb, well brother, Jesus is God !! So this is God's Wrath come to the earth. Its an Asteroid Strike, see Rev. 8. It shows the ABOVE  in action. Now I will walk us through God's Wrath, as shown in Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal.

Rev. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the ABOVE DESCRIBES the Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal Events !! This is the Wrath of God come to mankind. (WRATH OF THE Lamb)

The Smoke will filter out the Sun and Moons light, even the stars minimal lights, meaning they will be harder to see, the fires of course will give the Moon a Red Hue because its so close to earth. Thus the Asteroid strike brings in FIRE........its brings in a Mountain on fire......it brings an EXPLOSION that will be like 100 to 200 Nukes, which will of course cause a poisonous nuclear like fallout on the freshwaters. And lastly, all the Smoke will diminish the light we can see via both the sun and the moon.

Joel 2:31 AND Seal #6 come to pass via the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments, thus the Wrath of God (Lamb) is AT HAND brother. 

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

No. That would be 84 months. The beast only has power for 42 months. But you go....

On 11/26/2020 at 1:48 PM, Revelation Man said:

No, they all cover the exact same 42 months. He Conquers, he wars, he causes famine, he kills and thus also MARTYRS the Saints all in the same 42 months sir. 

On 11/27/2020 at 5:07 AM, Diaste said:

Funny. Also incorrect.

Edited November 30, 2020 by Revelation Man

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes I do, I explained it to you but you wish to look past the facts I cited. Those in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT COME out of the 70th Week, so they can only come out of the Church Age [tribulation period]. Can't you add that up brother? You see, I prove this with scriptures !!

Again, there is no such thing as 'church age'. This is the fallacy of dispensationalism. It's a dead doctrine so just give it up.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Rev. 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, (1)How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; (2)and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

1.) HOW LONG these men ask Jesus (of course this is a Prophetic utterance by Jesus, so he's just telling us "THEIR HEARTS DESIRE") until you you avenge us via those men on earth [who killed us].  So Jesus tells us.

2.) They should REST for a SEASON (42 Months of course) until their Fellow Brothers are killed (by the Anti-Christ) as they were, over a 42 month period SHALL FULFILLED. (How long does the Anti-Christ have per Prophesy? Well, we know its 42 months.

The season does not equal 42 months. No scripture says that. You do, but not scripture. You are equating the beast's reign with the length of time the martyrs are under the altar. No evidence points to that, it's an assumption by you. You are arguing from silence as in; the facts do not exist so you just pick whatever you'd like it to say. Shame, shame....

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, these seen here CAN NOT be the people seen in Rev. 7:9-17. That is a cold hard factoid. We back that up with Rev. 20:4.

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and (3)they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and (4)I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

3.)The Church/Bride who returns with Jesus are set up on Judgment Seats (know ye not we will Judge Angels?) 

4.) Whose Souls are seen in Rev. 20:4 ? Those who were BEHEADED for Jesus' name (Martyrs under the Altar via the 5th Seal), the ONLY people who ever lived who can say the DIED whilst REFUSING to take the Mark of the Beast, no one but those living during this 1260 day period on earth can say this except these select peoples, ad the GET JUDGED HERE.........After Jesus; return brother. Here is the thing, I knw you are very intelligent brother, and I think you know the EXACT POINT I am making is true. Thus THOSE MARTYRS under the Altar seen in the 5th Seal, which really just Prophesies the coming Martyrs during the Beasts 42 month reign, can't be the ones seen in Rev. 7:9-17. Thus it can only be the Raptured Church. 

I just PROVED those in  Rev. 7:9-17 can not have come out of the 70th week. So, you do the math, who are they? 100 Percent proven.

It's not .0001% proven. You begin with a false premise (Church Age), then add a false equivalency (Beast's reign=time under the altar) stir in a false assumption (The beheaded= the martyrs) after false assumption(martyrs≠ those who came from great trib) and conclude pretrib. 

There are other more plausible explanations. I get that you know what YOU know. That may or may not be accurate.

Those beheaded for Jesus and the refusal to take the mark could very well be in the same group as all martyrs, since logically those who die for Jesus in any manner are martyrs for Jesus. A subset would include those who were beheaded for Jesus and their refusa to worship the beast or his image. In fact no one, including you, can say that only some were beheaded for Jesus when the sentence for refusal to worship the beast or his image could very well be beheading, for all of them! Or us, as the case may be.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

I was like, this makes no understanding God, they can't come out of the Great Tribulation. You state in Seal #5 and in Rev. 20:4 they can't come out of the 70th week. 

5th Seal:

"9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and TRUE, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled."

No. This does not forbid or demand these arrive from any time/space moment. I would say they can only come from the 70th week, and some dire crisis within that time since we are in the context of the 70th week in the entire Revelation of Jesus Christ!

Rev 20:4:

"4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

No, neither does this say they CANNOT come from the 70th week. 

I'll grant you the accuracy of your position but you are not proving it using the above references. You argue from authority and silence often, as in this example. It's unbecoming, and you're way smarter than that.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Eureka, I remembered Jesus' own words, "Ye will have continual tribulation in this world" via the Gospel of John. So, ALL TIME is Tribulation, the Church Age where Millions of our brothers were murdered for their beliefs, the 70ty week and the 3.5 years. Then it hit me, John is describing the Church Age as the LONGEST PERIOD as in Greater than the 70th Week 7 year period. We have ZERO right to say John can't describe a 2000 some odd year period as GREATER than a One Week period. If it fits, it fits. And it fits brother. The other will not fit, because we know those can not come out of the 70th week.

When  one WILL FIT......................................and the other WILL NOT FIT. Its an easy option brother. You are trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

Truth. But since it not specified here that the tribulation in question is 'great tribulation that never was and never shall be again and this great tribulation had to be cut short or no flesh would be saved', Jesus is not speaking to the same tribulation in either scope, longevity, or severity. You are trying to get us to believe that 2000 years, or all time, is equivalent to the GT Jesus mentioned in Matt 24 when that same GT is likened to be worse than the great flood which killed everyone but 8 people. Balderdash!

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Yes, if Jesus did not RETURN, the Anti-Christ would rule MORE than 42 Months right? 

A scarecrow in search of a wizard.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Just because God knows the beginning from the end, and has ALREADY prophesied the ENDING, doesn't mean when Jesus returns that he doesn't cut the Anti-Christs Rule on earth short from what would NATURALLY OCCUR !! 

But it's not the beast's reign that is cut short as  have iterated again and again; it's the days of GT that are cut short for the sake of the elect. I have never said the reign of the beast is stopped short of the prophetic requirement. 

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You miss the whole prophesy, God can't lie, the Beast has 42 Months to rule. God has set that time to a SPECIFUC TIME PERIOD. Thus when Jesus returns and and kills the Best then throws him and the False Prophet in hell, did he not CUT THE TRIBULATUON SHORT ? Yes, he did, it would have went on and on until mankind was wiped out. Once again, you misconstrue God's intention.

Bah. This mishmash of terms is unsightly at best. The 70th week ≠ tribulation ≠ the beasts reign in the context of the end of the age. Let me clue you in here. The 70th week is the set of days, the beast's reign is a subset of days within the 70th week and, GT is a subset of days within both the reign of the beast and the 70th week. 

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

He cuts his life short of what it would have been. Via your "THEORY" God told a lie about the length of not only the Anti-Christ rule, but how long the 70th week was. Via MY UNDERSTANDING, all these things are FULFILLED and God cuts the Anti-Christs rule SHORT by KILLING him and casting him into hellfire, AND the Prophesies all still come true. My whole point about you not thinking these things through still stands. God can't lie. You have to make BOTH the Prophesies AND the fact that he cuts something short come true. I do that via logic brother. God can't lie, thus I knw the 7 years and 42 months have be TRUTHFUL PROPHESIES, and then I go from there. You start off with God's Prophesies not coming to pass. That's a NO GO Brother.

Well then consider the problem solved if GT falls under the reign of the beast and it's the length of days of GT that is cut short and not the reign of the beast. As in, the beast begins to reign and GT begins, Jesus arrives to cut short the days of GT, not the days of the beast, and the beast continues to rule till the end of his allotted time under the pressure of the wrath of the Lamb.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Ummm, NO, the Wrath of God lasts 42 months. Rev. 11 is the Two-witnesses chapter, so, at anytime during that chapter, the Wrath of God had come, they were called to turn Israel back unto God just BEFORE God's Wrath fell at the Midway point. (Trump 1-4 are all the EXACT SAME EVENT). The Three Woes are the Last Three Trumps, Rev 8:13 tells us that, thus the 3rd Woe = ALL 7 Vials. The Trumps are the Wrath of God, thus those people were correct, the Wrath came via the Trumps, which they were in the midst of. If we were at an Alabama football game, and the 4th quarter started, and a bunch of fans sang out, you are in the Wrath of Bama via a little song mocking a team behind by 49, when did the game start? In the 1st quarter, nit during the 4th quarter. 

Cite the scripture showing the duration of the wrath of God.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Wrath is the first Four Trumpet Judgments, they are ALL the same Asteroid Strike. The Fire comes in first, the Mountain comes in 2nd, the SAE ASTEROID is shown coming in HOT because that Nuclear type fusion/explosion is what will be poisonous to the waters. And the 4th Trump PROVES this is God's Wrath via Joel 2:31 AND Seal number 6. SEE BELOW !!

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

 

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Notice in Joel 2:30-31, WONDERS in Heaven are seen, blood and fire/smoke pillars. The Sun is DARKENED and moon is TURNED to Blood BEFORE (in the Presence of.......before the FACE OF) the Day of the Lord.

Then in Rev. 6, we see that there is an GREAT ERTHQUAKE, well this IMPACT will shake the whole world. The Sun becomes DARK but why? Well, 1/3 of the trees are Burning, and all the grasses, and what will that many trees burning do to the hue of the Moon? Turn it red, of course, EUREKA !! And also darken it somewhat via the smoke pillars which also darken the sun. I personally think the Stars of Heaven is the Demons being cast down to earth as UNTIMELY FIGS. It is THERE TIME, they ae RIPE to be cast out of Heaven and down unto earth, Satan will come to earth with a great wrath. 

NOTICE: They call this the Wrath of the Lamb, well brother, Jesus is God !! So this is God's Wrath com to the earth. Its an Asteroid Strike, see Rev. 8. It shows the ABOVE  in action. Now I will walk us through God's Wrath, as shown in Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal.

Rev. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

So, the ABOVE DESCRIBES the Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal Events !! This is the Wrath of God come to mankind.

Read the whole chapter. Joel is describing the nearness of the day of the Lord. The first and third trumps have sounded before that around the time of the A of D; per Joel 2.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

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No, they all cover the exact same 42 months. He Conquers, he wars, he causes famine, he kills and thus also MARTYRS the Saints all in the same 42 months sir. 

I guarantee you I have said that since the beginning. What you miss is that GT is only WITHIN that 42 months and is cut short.