Never knew him

[Starise]

I'll admit that in the beginning this scripture caused me to pause and ask myself if I was "that guy". I think even true Christians can at times, get caught up in works for all of the wrong reasons. We can do good things for the wrong reasons. It's a very scary thing to think some people will believe their works will be their ticket to heaven, yet this is the most common thing non Christians think if asked what they think will get them into heaven. They reply " being a good person". So what's being a good person look like? To most people it looks like a person who invests both time and money ( if they have it) to help others.

In fact, the good person and the Holy Spirit directed Christian probably look very similar because they do many of the same things but for different reasons.

The two groups act in reverse of one another. The 1st group does works because they think it makes them a good person. The second group does good works because they know they aren't a good person and God uses them to do His work which is sometimes the same kind of works as the other group. Make sense? 

Freemasons do charitable community works as do many other clubs and organizations. How many of them do you suppose are believers? Even churches do lots of good works with no spiritual implications. What is their motive? To decide motives on our own is being judgmental. Only God truly knows. Only HE has the right to condemn someone who did supposedly good works but were never saved.

One of the things mentioned in this scriptural passage is casting out demons. This is something almost unheard of in modern western society, yet was more common as a practice back then. I don't see those doing this falsely as any different than those fake TV healers who hide chicken gizzards in their pocket and claim to have removed a cancerous tumor. The Pharisees asked, " Can Satan cast out Satan?". Answer- No, but Satan CAN make it look like a false prophet casts out Satan. This is because they are in league with one another. It isn't difficult to provide both the problem AND the solution. In reality they were accusing Jesus that day of something they were doing. 

Want to make sure you're not THAT GUY ? Forget about works completely and ask God to do a work in your heart realizing you are a sinner with no merit. Only THEN will you be used of a willing heart to do works He ordains you to do.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Starise

[Your closest friendnt]

12 hours ago, Unit 11 said:

Something that just occurred to me, and I'd like to run by everyone. In Matthew chapter 7, verses 21-23, Christ mentions people who evidently did a great deal of work in his name--including exorcisms, and miracles--and yet he says they never even knew him. And they're not going to heaven. 

I'm wondering, how could someone be so active for Christ, performing such major works, and yet not know him? How can such a thing be?

 

Jesus, his name was Jesus from Nazareth, 

It is out of context and incorrect and is misleading to those who are waiting to hear what you are saying.  

I am not Judging anyone, I do not want to Judge anyone who believes in Jesus Christ because here Jesus is foretelling that Israel as a Nation will reject the Gospel after the Cross....

Jesus Christ is saying those things to those who were under the old Covenant, and he did say all those things during the rein of the Old Covenant, and he had in mind that not anyone who was doing all those things he is referring to and under the old Covenant, those he is referring to were those under the Old Covenant who in due time after his death and resurrection their time came to die and they died with their refusal that Jesus is the Christ...

But to their surprise on that day they were not gathered to their Father Abraham, but instant they were standing before the Judge of all, if they would have died after and not before the Cross and the resurrection,

and  to their double surprise Jesus Christ was to be their Judge, and for their double surprise when they asked to appear before their Lord God they were told that they were standing before him as their God was the Emmanuel who left everything to be born as Jesus in Bethlehem...

Then they seized the opportunity to turn the tables around...But Jesus Christ told them that he does not know them as believers in him after the Cross...

Before the Cross of coarse he knew them and he had accepted their good works.  

But to their detriment they were of the group of people who were born and raised in the old Covenant and  during their time the Covenant changed from the old to the New Covenant...

To0 bad they did not believe in Jesus Christ after the Cross, just like his disciples and many of the priests and Jews and Farisees. 

All those things Jesus Christ is referring to were done while they were under the old and continued to do similar things while the Covenant had changed in ignorance and in unbelief to the Gospel of Jesus Christ as it was preach by Peter and John...

This generation is long gone..

This does not apply to the believers of Jesus Christ after the Cross.  

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Your closest friendnt

[Unit 11]

Thanks for the answers, everyone. 

 

[Adstar]

On 12/11/2020 at 8:53 PM, Unit 11 said:

Something that just occurred to me, and I'd like to run by everyone. In Matthew chapter 7, verses 21-23, Christ mentions people who evidently did a great deal of work in his name--including exorcisms, and miracles--and yet he says they never even knew him. And they're not going to heaven. 

I'm wondering, how could someone be so active for Christ, performing such major works, and yet not know him? How can such a thing be?

 

We read in the Holy Bible that in the end times that lying signs and wonders will be performed on earth.. These signs and wonders will be done by people who have been given over to delusions by God because they have rejected the Love of the truth ( The Real Gospel way of salvation ) and instead have loved unrighteousness..   The Bible also declares that there is ""Another Jesus""  meaning there is a jesus being preached that is a distortion of the actual Jesus.. Now a person who believes in and loves a false jesus and rejects the True Word of God which is the true Jesus then they have rejected the love of the truth which would have saved them and instead have loved unrighteousness..

First scripture showing that lying signs and wonders shall be performed:: Please read it and take in the message::

(2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, {2} That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. {3} Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. {5} Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? {6} And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. {7} For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, {10} And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. {11} And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: {12} That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Second scriptures showing ""another jesus"" a false jesus that was being preached ( and i believe still is )

(2 Corinthians 11:1-4) "Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. {2} For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. {3} But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. {4} For if he that cometh preacheth another jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

Third Scripture: Paul lamenting that people had already been deceived into believing a false gospel even in His days::

(Galatians 1:5-9) "To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. {6} I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: {7} Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. {8} But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. {9} As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

 

So yes it is possible that people can be able to perform lying signs and wonders and believe that they are performing those miracles as believers in Jesus.. And when they face the LORD on the day of judgement they will say LORD LORD and be told that Jesus never knew them..

 

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"If I have faith that can move mountains, and have not love, I am nothing."  1 Corinthians 13.

What Christ taught is that we are to have sincere love for our fellow man,  [Luke 6:27-49]
one can believe that Christ is real, one can have faith that by saying His name some miracle will happen,
and perhaps something would happen.
But without sincerely grasping the message that Christ taught; sincere love for our fellow man;
that kind of faith will ultimately profit nothing.

What Christ will say to such is "I never knew you, depart from me ye that work lawlessness".

For what avails anything is faith that works by love.

For all the law is fulfilled in one word even this; love your neighbor as yourself. 

[JohnD]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:53 AM, Unit 11 said:

Something that just occurred to me, and I'd like to run by everyone. In Matthew chapter 7, verses 21-23, Christ mentions people who evidently did a great deal of work in his name--including exorcisms, and miracles--and yet he says they never even knew him. And they're not going to heaven. 

I'm wondering, how could someone be so active for Christ, performing such major works, and yet not know him? How can such a thing be?

 

Look around, the world is full of people who believe they

are working for the true Christ and are not.

What is the work of God?

John 6:29.

Faith alone

in the true Christ

alone.

The list of works in the text alone

is an affront to the true Gospel (Ephesians 2:8-10).

[Unit 11]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

Look around, the world is full of people who believe they

are working for the true Christ and are not.

What is the work of God?

John 6:29.

Faith alone

in the true Christ

alone.

The list of works in the text alone

is an affront to the true Gospel (Ephesians 2:8-10).

 

Now I'm thinking of the Great Commission...

At a Bible study I once attended, the leader had someone read us Luke 12:47 and left no room for doubt, that includes witnessing. And the pastor of a megachurch I once attended, applied James 4:17 to the same. (Sooner or later it would come to this subject, right?) So I'm curious to hear your input.

 

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Unit 11 said:

 

Now I'm thinking of the Great Commission...

At a Bible study I once attended, the leader had someone read us Luke 12:47 and left no room for doubt, that includes witnessing. And the pastor of a megachurch I once attended, applied James 4:17 to the same. (Sooner or later it would come to this subject, right?) So I'm curious to hear your input.

 

Luke 12:47 (AV)
47 And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

James 4:17 (AV)
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Completely different subject altogether. 

These verses you refer to are about people who are saved.

The OP / topic is about Matthew 7:21-23 is about people who are not

even saved.

Matthew 7:21–23 (AV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Again... the will of the Father is to believe in the Son. Period. ← that's the TRUE Gospel.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Verse 10b and 10c is AFTER salvation.

An example is this:

A boy helped little old ladies to cross the busy street.

One day the boy believed in Christ Jesus and is saved.

The next time the boy helped the same little old ladies

across the same busy street he did a good work which

was in Christ that he did as opposed to doing it before he

believed (out of Christ).

Were they the same "good works"

not in the sense of the name in which (or purpose they were done).

Note also that the good works were not about salvation.

Conversely, any who know to do good and does not do it it is sin

(whether saved or not). It is more or less saying there are sins of

omission as well as commission.

To reiterate:

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 1:8–9 (AV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Be blessed.

[john1]

On 12/11/2020 at 4:53 AM, Unit 11 said:

I'm wondering, how could someone be so active for Christ, performing such major works, and yet not know him? How can such a thing be?

As it says in Hosea chapter 6 verse 6

I desire mercy not sacrifice acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings.

And here in Matthew chapter 25 verse 31

The Sheep and the Goats

³¹ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. ³² All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. ³³ He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

³⁴ “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. ³⁵ For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, ³⁶ I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

³⁷ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? ³⁸ When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? ³⁹ When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

⁴⁰ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

⁴¹ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ⁴² For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

⁴⁴ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

⁴⁵ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

⁴⁶ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

 

[Unit 11]

On 1/24/2021 at 12:02 PM, JohnD said:

Again... the will of the Father is to believe in the Son. Period. ← that's the TRUE Gospel.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)

 

19 hours ago, john1 said:

As it says in Hosea chapter 6 verse 6

I desire mercy not sacrifice acknowledgement of God rather than burnt offerings.

And here in Matthew chapter 25 verse 31

 

 

Thanks for your input. 

One sad thing, though: In the home fellowship I once attended, there was a guy who was more fervently and excitedly into evangelism than anyone I'd ever met, more so even than the Navy Chaplain who converted me. He also prayed more than anyone I ever knew. If anyone was having a hard time and needed prayer, he was the first to respond. Almost invariably he was a happy, jolly fellow, often singing songs.

Yet something seemed off about him. It was just something I sensed. He was doing what we were all supposed to do (in spades!), yet something bothered me, and I didn't know why.

Then, one night during a Bible study, he remarked that he wanted to always be so busy, to accomplish so much for the Lord, that when he died, God would have "no choice" but to welcome him into the kingdom. 

That was some twenty years ago. I wonder now, why did none of us ever call him on this, take him aside, explain to him what you've shared with me? Not even the leader said anything. I can only wonder why.