Can the definition of a soul found in Genesis 2:7 maintain its integrity throughout the Scriptures?

[Guest kingdombrat]

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for responding! Certainly God breathed into Adam and he BECAME a living soul but do you think there was more to, or included in that breath other than air?

The idea behind scooping up dirt/bacteria/living microorganisms and spitting into that to create clay to be forming in its natural state.   And the form the WORD clearly made with His own hands was the original blueprint to every human being.   He made us [all] in that very moment.   We possibly can assume during the mold making of Adam was the original model to every organ, every vein, arteries, eyes, mind, hair (He knows the very number of hairs on all of our heads), finger nails, toe nails, what we have He formed it into existence that very moment.  And the model required one more piece of the puzzle.   It needed to be charged and jump started.   That "Spark" that ignited and came to life from the very {Breath of God} connected us directly.   This is the "moment" He intimately placed into all of us, the very place where He wants to exist at in every human life, our Soul.

6 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

What was lost when A&E sinned? Was it “His Spirit” (not THE Holy Spirit) that was also imparted into Adam through that breath? 

Where did Adam’s “spirit” (perhaps evidenced by his “covering”) come from if not from His Breath?

 Thank you and I hope to hear back from you tomorrow on this, Charlie 

 

He lost the way He was co-existing with his Maker.  God had true pleasure to visit His Creation.   He loved and cherished this moment.   Adam could be in the {presence} of God with no sense of wrong doing.   He was guilt free.   He was innocent.   He was exactly how his Maker imagined Adam to be.

[Michael37]

48 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for responding! Certainly God breathed into Adam and he BECAME a living soul but do you think there was more to, or included in that breath other than air?

What was lost when A&E sinned? Was it “His Spirit” (not THE Holy Spirit) that was also imparted into Adam through that breath? 

Where did Adam’s “spirit” (perhaps evidenced by his “covering”) come from if not from His Breath?

 Thank you and I hope to hear back from you tomorrow on this, Charlie 

 

We should take care not to stray into the hidden knowledge of the occult and gnosticism, I'm sure if God wanted us to know what His breath comprises beyond its obvious vitalising component He would have revealed that.

What Adam and Eve and all Creation lost was "innocence",  and it is to innocence that Christ redeems our bodies and Creation.  

Rom 8:18-23  For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  (19)  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.  (20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;  (21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  (22)  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.  (23)  Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
 

Currently I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body.   I distinguish spirit from soul with the former as my living essence and the latter as my inner being. 

• Spirit

Strong G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
Total KJV occurrences: 385

• Soul

Strong G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Total KJV occurrences: 104

• Body

Strong G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.
Total KJV occurrences: 146

[Frits]

2 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thank you for responding! Certainly God breathed into Adam and he BECAME a living soul but do you think there was more to, or included in that breath other than air?

What was lost when A&E sinned? Was it “His Spirit” (not THE Holy Spirit) that was also imparted into Adam through that breath? 

Where did Adam’s “spirit” (perhaps evidenced by his “covering”) come from if not from His Breath?

 Thank you and I hope to hear back from you tomorrow on this, Charlie 

 

Hi Charlie my brother,

Sometimes something special emerges when you put things from the beginning (Genesis) next to those of the end (Revelation).

In Genesis the Lord God did not approve of Adam being alone in the Garden. God Himself then took a "rib" from Adam and built his wife Eve.
In revelation we see that the Lord God also has the same desire to have a Wife next to Him.
The Wife of the Lord God came into being by the Holy Spirit from God, as described in Isa.54: 5.
The "component" (rib) from Adam was "bone of my legs, and flesh of my flesh," for Adam was carnal.
But the 'component' of God is spirit, because He is Spirit.
I therefore expect that at the wedding in Revelation 21, the Lord God will say:

"This is My Beloved, She is spirit of My Spirit."
 

May our Lord God Jesus Christ bless you.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Frits

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, kingdombrat said:

The idea behind scooping up dirt/bacteria/living microorganisms and spitting into that to create clay to be forming in its natural state.   And the form the WORD clearly made with His own hands was the original blueprint to every human being.   He made us [all] in that very moment.   We possibly can assume during the mold making of Adam was the original model to every organ, every vein, arteries, eyes, mind, hair (He knows the very number of hairs on all of our heads), finger nails, toe nails, what we have He formed it into existence that very moment.  And the model required one more piece of the puzzle.   It needed to be charged and jump started.   That "Spark" that ignited and came to life from the very {Breath of God} connected us directly.   This is the "moment" He intimately placed into all of us, the very place where He wants to exist at in every human life, our Soul.

He lost the way He was co-existing with his Maker.  God had true pleasure to visit His Creation.   He loved and cherished this moment.   Adam could be in the {presence} of God with no sense of wrong doing.   He was guilt free.   He was innocent.   He was exactly how his Maker imagined Adam to be.

Well, can not disagree at all with you but could a formed earth that was breathed air into it be able to stand in His presence? 

Isn’t it possible He breathed the air necessary for physical life (although He could easily have given Adam life in a manner similar to the other creatures- He created them without the explicit mention of breathing into him) AND imparted His Spirit within him?

This “Spirit” not only was within Adam but it was able to be seen on his outside as a “covering”. I view this “covering” similar to other coverings or appearances mentioned later in the Scriptures - although Moses was not “breathed” into by God, His face shown simply by being in His presence. 

Charlie 

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

We should take care not to stray into the hidden knowledge of the occult and gnosticism, I'm sure if God wanted us to know what His breath comprises beyond its obvious vitalising component He would have revealed that.

What Adam and Eve and all Creation lost was "innocence",  and it is to innocence that Christ redeems our bodies and Creation.  

Rom 8:18-23  For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  (19)  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.  (20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;  (21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  (22)  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.  (23)  Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
 

Currently I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body.   I distinguish spirit from soul with the former as my living essence and the latter as my inner being. 

• Spirit

Strong G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
Total KJV occurrences: 385

• Soul

Strong G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Total KJV occurrences: 104

• Body

Strong G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.
Total KJV occurrences: 146

Hi Michael,

I have a question for you. Would it be grammatically justified to reverse this sentence and say "I am a soul, I have a spirit"?

Can you explain your answer?

God bless.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Frits

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

We should take care not to stray into the hidden knowledge of the occult and gnosticism, I'm sure if God wanted us to know what His breath comprises beyond its obvious vitalising component He would have revealed that.

What Adam and Eve and all Creation lost was "innocence",  and it is to innocence that Christ redeems our bodies and Creation.  

Rom 8:18-23  For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  (19)  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.  (20)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;  (21)  because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  (22)  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.  (23)  Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
 

Currently I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body.   I distinguish spirit from soul with the former as my living essence and the latter as my inner being. 

• Spirit

Strong G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.
Total KJV occurrences: 385

• Soul

Strong G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Total KJV occurrences: 104

• Body

Strong G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.
Total KJV occurrences: 146

It is always nice when talented, very knowledgeable folks in this site respond with their opinions and coupled with their ability to understand Greek, Hebrew or both.... to me that is such a gift!

If we address the make up of Adam first and then discuss their attributes and purpose, I will / should be able to stay with everyone.

Without reading anything into 2:7, I see only 2 components; earth formed by God and His breathing into him. These 2 parts produce a “living soul”. This living soul can not exist without either of the 2 parts, consequently it can not BE a 3rd part or entity or component of a man. 

So, 2:7 AT LEAST gives us no more than 2 parts - earth and air - this is obviously exhibited by Adam’s physical existence. But if God imparted His Spirit into Adam when He breathed in Him, this means Adam would have a “spiritual” component as well. And this would be exhibited by his outward glow or covering.

And this would still mean that Adam was a 2 part being (a 2 part living soul), composed of a body and spirit. 

When Adam sinned he lost this God breathed spirit which was now proofed (my opinion) by the lose of this covering AND where God would now replace it with animal skins. 

After he sinned Adam was still a “living soul”, still a 2 part being, but now he lost the Spirit that God breathed into him. He could no longer be in His presence!

So, God’s Plan of Salvation is to restore this “spirit” within man. The ONLY way to accomplish this is to send His Holy Spirit (Pentecost) and we must accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. If we are in Christ He will resurrect us with His Spirit once again and we will and can be with Him again. But if we reject Jesus we will be resurrected as a living soul BUT we would not have His Spirit returned or restored in us.

Full circle! 

What do you think? Charlie 

1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Charlie744
Added 1 Peter

[Charlie744]

32 minutes ago, Frits said:

Hi Charlie my brother,

Sometimes something special emerges when you put things from the beginning (Genesis) next to those of the end (Revelation).

In Genesis the Lord God did not approve of Adam being alone in the Garden. God Himself then took a "rib" from Adam and built his wife Eve.
In revelation we see that the Lord God also has the same desire to have a Wife next to Him.
The Wife of the Lord God came into being by the Holy Spirit from God, as described in Isa.54: 5.
The "component" (rib) from Adam was "bone of my legs, and flesh of my flesh," for Adam was carnal.
But the 'component' of God is spirit, because He is Spirit.
I therefore expect that at the wedding in Revelation 21, the Lord God will say:

"This is My Beloved, She is Spirit of My Spirit."
 

May our Lord God Jesus Christ bless you.

That really was terrific! I am attempting to define what a “living soul” is since so many are treating man as a 3 part being where there is a soul, body and spirit. 

The only way to obtain an accurate definition is to go right back to square 1, the beginning of it all. And here is where we read the Scriptures of 2:7. This is where, when and how He created us. I see a “stated” 2 part man - body and air = a living soul. That is it - there can not possibly be a 3rd part of man called a living soul because: Scripture tells and gives us the 2 part definition and as”living soul” can not BE without either one of the 2 parts. Take one away and this “living soul” is no more.

But, for me, the “special and unique” way God created us (and clearly departing from how He created all other living beings), and Adam was definitely given an outside “covering” revealing that God had breathed something special into Adam, and was then lost or taken away after he sinned.... Adam was and still is a 2 part living soul (before and after the fall) but he can not be in His presence any longer. 

But I believe the real test to support or destroy this definition is to take it through the Scriptures and apply it to later mentions of these terms. 

That is still a necessary step but to save time we can test this  definition / thought at the end - in Revelation. 

Everything at the end will be as it was in the beginning. God’s Plan of Salvation is to bring us back to the state we were given in the Garden. 

So your comment is perfect- in Revelation, we will once again be restored —- “her spirit of My Spirit will once again be restored to us”.

Charlie

[Frits]

2 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

That really was terrific! I am attempting to define what a “living soul” is since so many are treating man as a 3 part being where there is a soul, body and spirit. 

The only way to obtain an accurate definition is to go right back to square 1, the beginning of it all. And here is where we read the Scriptures of 2:7. This is where, when and how He created us. I see a “stated” 2 part man - body and air = a living soul. That is it - there can not possibly be a 3rd part of man called a living soul because: Scripture tells and gives us the 2 part definition and as”living soul” can not BE without either one of the 2 parts. Take one away and this “living soul” is no more.

But, for me, the “special and unique” way God created us (and clearly departing from how He created all other living beings), and Adam was definitely given an outside “covering” revealing that God had breathed something special into Adam, and was then lost or taken away after he sinned.... Adam was and still is a 2 part living soul (before and after the fall) but he can not be in His presence any longer. 

But I believe the real test to support or destroy this definition is to take it through the Scriptures and apply it to later mentions of these terms. 

That is still a necessary step but to save time we can test this  definition / thought at the end - in Revelation. 

Everything at the end will be as it was in the beginning. God’s Plan of Salvation is to bring us back to the state we were given in the Garden. 

So your comment is perfect- in Revelation, we will once again be restored —- “her spirit of My Spirit will once again be restored to us”.

Charlie

?

[Charlie744]

14 minutes ago, Frits said:

?

Frits, thank you and please reread that same post again since I amended it with what I believe is a verse that is directly on point with your comment on Revelation and should support this definition and thought on what is a “living soul”.

 Thanks again, Charlie 

[Frits]

23 minutes ago, Frits said:

?

Charlie,
You may know that I live in the Netherlands and English is not spoken at home.  When translating the whole text with Google translate

(Dutch) 'Dit is Mijn Geliefde, Zij is geest van Mijn Geest.'

came as

'This is My Beloved, She is Spirit of My Spirit.'

I have now changed her "S" pirit into "spirit".