Does Understanding the Magnitude of {DNA} in Its Entirety Prove "Intelligent Design?"

[watchinginawe]

On 12/28/2020 at 11:17 PM, kingdombrat said:

Do we really buy the idealism that the most important key factor, outside God, from what we understand DNA to be completely, evolved from a gaseous pond of chemicals?   And then by a stroke of luck {Natural Selection} [Inherited Genetics] (pure Luck) "Accident" we went through phases of existence until the Process brought us to this point of reality.

It kind of reminds me of this passage in Exodus:

Exodus 32:22-24 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief. For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.

It really is hard to believe that the first reproducing cell was assembled by chance after the ingredients were found to be "cast into the fire" so to speak.

Exodus 32:4 These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

[watchinginawe]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:25 AM, Uber Genius said:

Agree. But on all three views that hold to God's Creation (YEC, intelligent design, and theistic evolution), Adam and Eve are considered adults in the garden. However, what does it mean in Gen 1 when instead of "God created" the text changes to God said "Let he Earth bring forth vegetation." 

Life is procreated from life. However, all life consists of existing matter, that which God created from nothing. So the material (matter) that life is consisted of is created supernaturally from nothing first, then there is another creation event where that matter is made into living self sustaining / reproducing organisms. Lastly Adam's body also was made from the dust of the Earth (existing matter at that point) and is differentiated in the Genesis account as having been given something immaterial from God, his soul.

So my take on "Let the Earth bring forth vegetation" is that God made procreation part of nature which allows life to be brought forth without further creation events. Thus, God creates in one period of time and not continually to this day. God now sustains His creation but life propagates naturally within that.

[Guest kingdombrat]

1 hour ago, watchinginawe said:

It kind of reminds me of this passage in Exodus:

Exodus 32:22-24 And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief. For they said unto me, Make us gods, which shall go before us: for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him. And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf.

It really is hard to believe that the first reproducing cell was assembled by chance after the ingredients were found to be "cast into the fire" so to speak.

Exodus 32:4 These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

Excellent Point!

 

We tossed gold pieces, silver, metals into the fire and magically a calf appeared 

[Guest kingdombrat]

39 minutes ago, watchinginawe said:

Life is procreated from life. However, all life consists of existing matter, that which God created from nothing. So the material (matter) that life is consisted of is created supernaturally from nothing first, then there is another creation event where that matter is made into living self sustaining / reproducing organisms. Lastly Adam's body also was made from the dust of the Earth (existing matter at that point) and is differentiated in the Genesis account as having been given something immaterial from God, his soul.

So my take on "Let the Earth bring forth vegetation" is that God made procreation part of nature which allows life to be brought forth without further creation events. Thus, God creates in one period of time and not continually to this day. God now sustains His creation but life propagates naturally within that.

Amen!

 

Science wants to use the components found within Earth as the building nucleus to Life in general.   But none of those [Components] ever existed until God Created them.   They're giving the Earth by way of the BBT credit that is just a complete farce.

[one.opinion]

8 hours ago, watchinginawe said:

It really is hard to believe that the first reproducing cell was assembled by chance after the ingredients were found to be "cast into the fire" so to speak.

I am a Christ follower and a biologist that accepts evolution as His creative tool. I've explained to other scientists that based on the evidence we have, I find divine action more plausible of an explanation for the earliest life forms than random association of chemicals into living things. Obviously, some disagree with me, but it is really hard to argue against my position based on the facts we have.

[watchinginawe]

12 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

I am a Christ follower and a biologist that accepts evolution as His creative tool. I've explained to other scientists that based on the evidence we have, I find divine action more plausible of an explanation for the earliest life forms than random association of chemicals into living things. Obviously, some disagree with me, but it is really hard to argue against my position based on the facts we have.

Thanks for the post. Maybe you should call what you accept as "common descent" then instead of evolution, especially as a biologist.  Would you object to being termed a "naturalist" as in holding to naturalism?

Even then, programmatic common descent is a little too deistic for my tastes. As a Christ follower I'm supposing you already are a believer in the supernatural intervention of God in the affairs of humanity, so why not go whole hog?  But then again, maybe that is what you mean by "His creative tool". 

For me, I don't see my belief of special creation as some kind of ignorantly held position, but who would?   I'm fairly well informed and remain unconvinced of whole common descent from some "Universal Common Ancestor". Maybe I'm stubborn, however there was a time where I was whole hog materialist, so I can be moved from a position of certainty if even it takes God to show me otherwise.

 

[one.opinion]

1 hour ago, watchinginawe said:

maybe that is what you mean by "His creative tool". 

Yes, absolutely. I believe that God, who stands outside of time, set everything into motion that would unfold itself over the course of hundreds of millions of years. I am constantly struck with awe and wonder at His amazing creation.

1 hour ago, watchinginawe said:

I'm fairly well informed and remain unconvinced of whole common descent from some "Universal Common Ancestor".

Clearly, we would disagree on common descent, but we can disagree on these secondary (or tertiary) issues while celebrating the majestic works of His hands!

[Guest]

I see DNA / RNA as God's programming language.   It may be humbling to some but 99.9% of our DNA we share with our neighbor and 50% of our genes with a banana.

[The Barbarian]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:36 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I see DNA / RNA as God's programming language.   It may be humbling to some but 99.9% of our DNA we share with our neighbor and 50% of our genes with a banana.

 

Yes.   And if you rank relationships by DNA, you get the same evolutionary relationships first worked out by anatomical and biochemical data.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Foceanexplorer.noaa.gov%2Fexplorations%2F15arctic-microbes%2Fbackground%2Fdna-classification%2Fmedia%2Fmicrobes-universal-tree-hires.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Yes.   And if you rank relationships by DNA, you get the same evolutionary relationships first worked out by anatomical and biochemical data.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Foceanexplorer.noaa.gov%2Fexplorations%2F15arctic-microbes%2Fbackground%2Fdna-classification%2Fmedia%2Fmicrobes-universal-tree-hires.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Which opens up a whole new set of questions relating to all manner of divine creations, Seraphim, Cherubim, etc.  And of course the Nephilim which were not created by God.

When man and woman conceive an offspring, that offspring has a unique DNA different than either parent.  Pretty awesome for God to provide for the spreading of life.