Then ten lost tribes of Hebrew are still exist and alive until today (not in Israel).

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Can you cite your sources? Every reference I've seen puts his death well before A.D. 70. Here's my brief note:

(9) JAMES – (Greek form of Jacob) a.k.a. JAMES the Less (in stature, or little), JAMES the Just, son of Alphaeus a.k.a. CLEOPAS. The “brother” (Gal 1: 18-19) or near kinsman or cousin of our Lord. Author of the Epistle which bears his name. Head of the church at Jerusalem. There’s some confusion with the three James in the N.T. Ministered in Syria. First century secular historian Flavis Josephus says (antiq 20.9.1) he was stoned and clubbed to death. Some say he was thrown over a hundred feet down from the SE pinnacle of the temple and survived, then was beaten to death with a fuller’s club. Tradition fixes his martyrdom at A.D. 62.

The Authorship of the book of James is stated to be between 65 AD and 85 AD, so that seems to suggest after 70 AD via weighing the odds. As per his death, you can look and find 20 different dates more than likely, thus you can look and always find a date that you want it o be. TBH, that misses the whole point anyway, the Northern Kingdom had HUMAN BEINGS living in Jerusalem when the Northern Kingdoms were toted off, THUS...........The 10 Tribes were NEVER LOST. Its just common sense, this whole Armstrng ruse was put out by a false teacher. 

More than likely the book of James was written after 70 AD, but that point he made is no point anyway. Its OBVIOUS there were always a Remnant of the other tribes living in Judea, go read the TWWO STICKS Prophecy, what do you guys think it means ? God hated the fact that Israel were a divided nation to start with. 

 

[suzan344]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:09 PM, R. Hartono said:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered among the nations, greetings.

Apostle James has written that the twelve tribes actually scattered outside Israel and even more after the destruction of Jerusalem at 70 AD and even worst after the greatest battle against the Roman by the 3rd war of Bar Kokhba  circa 135 AD. with the majority of the Jewish population of the province killed, enslaved, or exiled, and their national existence and identity became obscured as they were dispersed into unknown nations. Which is actually another more severe punishment from God Himself after their captivity into Babylon.

However, this is the undisputable evidence that the twelve tribes of Israel are still exist and preserved until today despite of the ten lost tribes taken captive to Assyria around 740 BC and scattered among nations, as God will send angels to seal them at the four corners of the earth (not in Israel) : 

Rev 1:7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. ² Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: ³ “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” ⁴ Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

⁵ From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

⁶ from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

⁷ from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

These twelve tribes of the Hebrew will be revealed as the servants of God in the Great Tribulation when the fullness of the gentiles is reached (their time is up) and God returns the mandate of salvation to the Hebrew and these twelve tribes shall be led by the 2 OT prophets (probably Moses and Elijah) like they did lead the ancient Hebrew from Egypt to Kanaan (battling hostile gentiles) to preach the Gospel of Jesus salvation to the world in the great tribulation as the Holy Spirit the restrainer and the Church's wise virgins (where He dwelt with) has been removed.

2 Thes 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now holdeth back will hold him back, until He is taken out of the way.

These 144000 Hebrew will not be hurt by the tormenting locusts with scorpion tails which torture all mankind without exception but did not kill them : ^{Rev 9:4} They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

And the two witnesses will stand against antichrist and false prophet like the old time Moses and Aaron stood against Pharaoh until they were killed by the beast from the bottomless pit and then the AOD takes place as these two no longer resist the antichrist NWO.

THE 144000 HEBREW WILL CONTINUE TO BE ON EARTH UNTIL JESUS RETURN TO ARMAGEDDON BATTLE WITH THE SAINTS AND THEN JESUS WILL LAND ON THE MT.ZION PROBABLY AT THE SAME SPOT FROM WHERE HE DEPARTED.

Rev 14 1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.…

The 144000 Hebrew are not christians of spiritual Israel grafted to the Olive tree because christians as spiritual Israel DO NOT BELONG TO ANY TRIBE.

 

I don't think it is that far a stretch to see that many people from that region (the middle east), including Jews, crossed over into Europe and settled that region, thousands of years ago.  They lost their Jewish identity and took identities of their region, like France, Germany etc.  I've read some articles that touched upon this topic so it has been discussed before, at length, but I don't see this idea gaining much traction in the modern Church's culture.  They like their definition of Gentile and Jew and to broach this topic with alternate definitions of 'gentile' for example broaches the topic of word changes occurring in Bible text.

Nothing that can be proved well.

It gets complicated then when you begin to see alternative viewpoints on this topic.  Doesn't make for great pulpit talk and some would feel is a divisive topic.  Thank goodness we invented the internet to overcome such stagnation.

Edited January 6, 2021 by suzan344

[Who me]

On 1/4/2021 at 7:46 PM, The Light said:

Can you post the scripture that supports this line of thought. If this is true then Hitler killed a bunch of people for nothing????

Read in the O T about those who returned from exile, mention is made there of those who did not return.

Also investigate who the Samaritans were/are.

 

Jewish Ness may be determined through the mother for a legal definition of Jewishness, but salvation in the OT depended on obedience to the laws,. Those who did not return from exile were nolonger following Jewish rules, rite etc and are not Jewish.

The whole lost tribe argument is irrelevant.

The only thin that matters is whether anyone follows Jesus.

 

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Who me said:

Read in the O T about those who returned from exile, mention is made there of those who did not return.

Also investigate who the Samaritans were/are.

So, you are unable to post the chapter and verses where you claim that the tribes of Israel were no longer Jewish because they did not return to the land. 

3 hours ago, Who me said:

 

Jewish Ness may be determined through the mother for a legal definition of Jewishness,

Exactly. End of story.

3 hours ago, Who me said:

but salvation in the OT depended on obedience to the laws,.

Do you really believe this? If this is true then not one Jew would be saved. For the word says:

Rom 3

²³ For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

3 hours ago, Who me said:

 

Those who did not return from exile were nolonger following Jewish rules, rite etc and are not Jewish.

As I said, Jewish custom has absolutely nothing to do with whether a person is Jewish.

3 hours ago, Who me said:

The whole lost tribe argument is irrelevant.

If you're saying that the lost tribe argument is irrelevant because there are no Jews that are of the tribes of Israel because they did not return to the land, you would be in complete error. There are Jews of the 12 tribes all over the world, even if they have not returned to the land or follow Jewish customs.

3 hours ago, Who me said:

The only thin that matters is whether anyone follows Jesus.

 

Which is why I told you there is no salvation issue and posted this"

Acts 4:12

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Blindness will be removed from part of Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the pretribulation rapture, which is pre 70th week of Daniel.

 

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

They never became the part of Judah as you claimed so (your own theory). James wrote it they were scattered in nations, i believe in James.

 

That is an UNTRUTH, they lived Judea all along, SEED = PEOPLE, it doesn't have to be whole tribes, it can be 10 people, heck it could be ONE PERSON, didn't all the SEED come from ONE MAN, Abraham ? No tribes were ever lost, that's just you and others not comprehending the facts sir. 

[The Light]

On 1/4/2021 at 12:09 AM, R. Hartono said:

 

THE 144000 HEBREW WILL CONTINUE TO BE ON EARTH UNTIL JESUS RETURN TO ARMAGEDDON BATTLE WITH THE SAINTS AND THEN JESUS WILL LAND ON THE MT.ZION PROBABLY AT THE SAME SPOT FROM WHERE HE DEPARTED.

Rev 14 1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. 5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him.…

The 144000 Hebrew are not christians of spiritual Israel grafted to the Olive tree because christians as spiritual Israel DO NOT BELONG TO ANY TRIBE.

 

The 144,000 from the 12 tribes WILL NOT continue on earth until Jesus returns for Armageddon. The 144,000 actually are caught up to heaven during the seals which we can prove by Revelation 14 and Revelation 7.

FYI, Mount Sion is not Mount Zion. Mount Sion, is Mount Hermon, which was named after the Greek god Hermes. Mount Sion is where Jesus ascended to heaven.

[R. Hartono]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The 144,000 from the 12 tribes WILL NOT continue on earth until Jesus returns for Armageddon. The 144,000 actually are caught up to heaven during the seals which we can prove by Revelation 14 and Revelation 7.

 

Those 144000 with seals cannot be hurt by the locust of 5th trumpets which shows they are on earth when the trumpets are sounded in the great tribulation.

[The Light]

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Those 144000 with seals cannot be hurt by the locust of 5th trumpets which shows they are on earth when the trumpets are sounded in the great tribulation.

No one likes long posts and few read them. But put on your big boy pants if you are seeking some additional understanding.

To understand Revelation you must get past this verse.

Rev 9

⁴ And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

The verse certainly makes you think that the 144,000 are still on the earth, and that's what it's designed to do. It appears that the 144,000 are sealed so they can go through the 5th seal unharmed. In reality they have been removed from the earth before the 5th seal occurs. Can we prove this? Sure.

Where do we know the 144,000 are removed from the earth?

Rev 14

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

⁵ And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So many say, yep, Revelation is written in order so that proves that the 144,000 are on earth during the 5th trumpet. Is that true? NO.

When you read Rev 14, you will see the great tribulation.

Rev 14

 

¹² Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

¹³ And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then we see the coming of Jesus BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD BEGINS.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Using the FACT, that the 144,000 are removed from the earth before the great tribulation should be enough evidence. We also have the evidence that this occurs before the wrath of God. So can we find the harvest from the earth written anywhere else? Sure in Revelation 7.

Rev 7

⁹ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The harvest in Rev 7 matches up perfectly with the harvest in Rev 14, as they are the same event. In both chapters we see the great tribulation and the removal of the saints before the wrath of God. 

We have further proof as we see the great tribulation at the 5th seal.

Rev 6

 

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The wrath of God begins with the 1st trumpet and ends with the 7th trumpet. The vials are just another view of the trumpets. Can we prove that? Sure, but this post is long enough.

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As we can see the wrath of God is over when the 7th angel begins to sound.

Here is another verse you must get past.

Rev 7

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Just because John saw the events of Rev 7 after the events of Rev 6, does not mean that the all of the events of Rev 7 occurred after the events of Rev 6. It is a new vision that he saw. The sealing of the 144,000 occurs during the  the first four seals and likely during the first couple. We know this because they are sealed before the great tribulation as has been proven in Rev 14. The 144,000 are removed from the earth before the harvest of Rev 7, as we saw in Rev 14, as they are the first fruits of that harvest. 

Revelation is not meant to be easily understood and it is not. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by The Light

[R. Hartono]

16 hours ago, The Light said:

No one likes long posts and few read them. But put on your big boy pants if you are seeking some additional understanding.

To understand Revelation you must get past this verse.

Rev 9

⁴ And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

The verse certainly makes you think that the 144,000 are still on the earth, and that's what it's designed to do. It appears that the 144,000 are sealed so they can go through the 5th seal unharmed. In reality they have been removed from the earth before the 5th seal occurs. Can we prove this? Sure.

Where do we know the 144,000 are removed from the earth?

Rev 14

³ And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

⁴ These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

⁵ And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

So many say, yep, Revelation is written in order so that proves that the 144,000 are on earth during the 5th trumpet. Is that true? NO.

When you read Rev 14, you will see the great tribulation.

Rev 14

 

¹² Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

¹³ And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Then we see the coming of Jesus BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD BEGINS.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

¹⁷ And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

¹⁸ And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

¹⁹ And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Using the FACT, that the 144,000 are removed from the earth before the great tribulation should be enough evidence. We also have the evidence that this occurs before the wrath of God. So can we find the harvest from the earth written anywhere else? Sure in Revelation 7.

Rev 7

⁹ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The harvest in Rev 7 matches up perfectly with the harvest in Rev 14, as they are the same event. In both chapters we see the great tribulation and the removal of the saints before the wrath of God. 

We have further proof as we see the great tribulation at the 5th seal.

Rev 6

 

⁹ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

¹⁰ And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

¹¹ And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The wrath of God begins with the 1st trumpet and ends with the 7th trumpet. The vials are just another view of the trumpets. Can we prove that? Sure, but this post is long enough.

Rev 11

¹⁵ And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

As we can see the wrath of God is over when the 7th angel begins to sound.

Here is another verse you must get past.

Rev 7

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Just because John saw the events of Rev 7 after the events of Rev 6, does not mean that the all of the events of Rev 7 occurred after the events of Rev 6. It is a new vision that he saw. The sealing of the 144,000 occurs during the  the first four seals and likely during the first couple. We know this because they are sealed before the great tribulation as has been proven in Rev 14. The 144,000 are removed from the earth before the harvest of Rev 7, as we saw in Rev 14, as they are the first fruits of that harvest. 

Revelation is not meant to be easily understood and it is not. 

Imho the purpose of the particular sealing of the 144000 Hebrews ON THE EARTH is to appoint them as SERVANTS OF GOD to replace the church who has been raptured as the great multitude in heaven, they are not part of the great multitude, n they with the 2 witnesses replace the church at the Fullness of gentiles in the great tribulation.

Rev 14 shows Jesus landing on Mt Zion to begin the Millenniumn and He is welcomed with a new song by this troop of 144000 servants of God.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by R. Hartono

[Jaydub]

If God has joined us with Israel, to be his people, do you think there can still be tribes?

If we are kings and priest how can there still be tribes

1 Peter 2:9

9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

True Israel believes messiah has come. True Israel believes in Jesus. We are all priests able to go into the presence of the Lord

There are no more tribes, if there was we would all be Levite's

The 14400 is symbolic for all believers