I dont understand the trinity

[JohnD]

John 15:26 (NASB95)
26 “When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,

The Spirit is sent by Jesus who is in subordination to the Father. The text does not say "I will send the Father who is the Spirit..." This language also depicts the deity of the Spirit just as this language does for Jesus in:

John 16:27 (NASB95)
27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father.

Deity being sent by the Father from the Father's authority.

 

 

[popsthebuilder]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

John 14:26 (NASB95)
26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

The Holy Spirit / Holy Ghost / Spirit of the LORD / Spirit of God is not the Father since one cannot SEND one's self. One comes or goes.

 

Did you really just say the Holy Spirit of GOD is not the Spirit of the FATHER because GOD can't send HIS Spirit?!

You are limiting the capacity of GOD who is Spirit and not limited to the laws HE formed for HIS creation.

You basically just refuted the trinity all on your own there. So not One, but three separate persons? Wreaks of polytheism and paganism to me. You are really trying to make the case that the Spirit of GOD is not GOD and that GOD is three and separate at that. Too many issues to list. Try sound doctrine my friend.

 

A little study material? 

1)The holy Spirit is the Spirit possessed by God.

“But they rebelled, and vexed HIS HOLY SPIRIT: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put HIS HOLY SPIRIT within him? (Isaiah 63:10, 11)

He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT. (1 Thess 4:8)

And grieve not THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Eph 4:30)

Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not THY HOLY SPIRIT from me. (Psalm 51:11)

Note: Please note the possessive pronouns “His” and “Thy” here. Thus we see that the holy Spirit is possessed by God.

2) The holy Spirit (aka: holy Ghost) is the Spirit of God

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by THE SPIRIT OF GOD calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by THE HOLY GHOST (1 Cor 12:3)

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER which speaketh in you. (Matt 10:19, 20)

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but THE HOLY GHOST (Mark 13:11)

Note: The Bible evidence above shows us that the “Spirit of God” is synonymous with the “holy Ghost” (aka: holy Spirit). It is important to understand that the Bible parallels man and the spirit of man with God and the Spirit of God. Just as we have a spirit within us (our character) so also God has a Spirit within Himself, the Spirit of God (His character)

3) The holy Spirit (aka: holy Ghost) is the Spirit of Christ:

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. (1 Pet 1:10, 11)

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by THE HOLY GHOST (2 Pet 1:20, 21)

Note: A careful reader will note that the “Spirit of Christ” is also synonymous with the “holy Ghost” (aka: holy Spirit). And the time period that Peter is speaking of is actually before the incarnation. Here we are starting to touch upon the mystery that this same Spirit which is the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of His Son.

4) The Father gave the fullness of the Spirit unto His Son.

“For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not THE SPIRIT by measure unto him. (John 3:34)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art IN me, and I IN thee, that they also may be one IN us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And THE GLORY WHICH THOUGH GAVEST ME I have given them; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE: 23 I IN them, and thou IN me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world (John 17:21-24)

Note: The Spirit is not given by measure unto the Son. He fully possesses It. So much so that the Bible refers to It as the Spirit of Christ, as we saw in the previous point. Notice also in John 17 that “the glory” was given unto Christ. He, in turn, gives it to His disciples in order to make them one, “even as” the Father and Son are one. What we are speaking of here is the Spirit. We will return to this point later when we look at EGW’s teaching.

5) The Son possesses the omnipresent Spirit of God.

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that HATH the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead (Rev 3:1)

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, HAVING seven horns and seven eyes, WHICH ARE the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. (Rev 5:6)

Note: The Greek verb "echo" is used here. It means to hold, own, possess. The symbolic portrayal makes these a natural part of the Lamb. Thus the conclusion here is that He, the Son, possesses the Spirit of God as a part of His Being. And the 7 Spirits of God is a portrayal of His omnipresence (i.e. sent forth into all the earth). What we are really dealing with here is the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ.

6) The holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you FROM the Father, even the Spirit of truth, WHICH PROCEEDETH FROM THE FATHER, he shall testify of me (John 15:26)

Note: Inasmuch as the holy Spirit is the Spirit of God this makes logical sense. The Spirit comes from Him. Later on, when we look at EGW's teaching, we will see that the means whereby God does this is by having this same Spirit proceed to us from His Son. It is important to understand that the holy Spirit is not just the Spirit of Christ but also the Spirit of the Father. Thus there is always a sense in which It is other yet simultaneously a sense in which It is the same.

7) We partake of the holy Spirit by becoming "one spirit" with the Son. Though the Spirit in Him we access the Father.

"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (1 Cor 6:17)

"For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. (Eph 2;18)

8) There is only "one Spirit."

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (Eph 4:4)

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:13)

Note: Contrary to the idea that there is a Spirit of the holy Spirit what we are seeing here is that the holy Spirit is the "one Spirit" that unites the believer to God and His Son.

9) The Spirit which proceeds from the Father is the Spirit of His Son.

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth THE SPIRIT OF HIS SON into your hearts, CRYING, ABBA, FATHER. (Gal 4:6)

Note: We must remember that there is only "one Spirit." The Spirit of God's Son is not a different entity from the holy Spirit (aka: Spirit of God). The spiritual Presence of Both Father and Son is being conveyed by the holy Spirit but the Son is the One being personified. When we grasp this then a passage like Romans 8, which switches between the Spirit, Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ interchangeably makes sense.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in THE SPIRIT , if so be that THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELL IN YOU. Now if any man have not THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his. 10 And if CHRIST BE IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.11 But if THE SPIRIT OF HIM that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, HE THAT RAISED UP CHRIST from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU.12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through THE SPIRIT do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by THE SPIRIT OF GOD, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received THE SPIRIT OF ADOPTION, whereby WE CRY, ABBA, FATHER. (Rom 8:9-15)

 

(Not my doctrine; just solid points)

peace

Edited February 7, 2021 by popsthebuilder

[Waggles]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

Men can be angels. God can be an angel. 

Jesus (God incarnate) is a sent one by the Father (John 6:29). He is an Angel of the LORD.

The Holy Spirit is sent by both Father and Son (John 14:26, John 15:26) and is an Angel of the LORD.

Me thinks you are drawing a long bow here. 

No doubt the spirit world is crowded with a multitude of spirit beings, some referred to as gods, sons of God, angels, seraphim, Watchers, etc

But there is only one God (the Father and the Son - who is the MOST high - the supreme being who created all the other spiritual beings. 

Mark 5:2  And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit. 
Mar 5:5  Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. 
Mar 5:6  And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. 
Mar 5:7  And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” 
Mar 5:8  For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!” 
Mar 5:9  And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” 

Mark 3:11  And whenever the unclean spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.”

Act 16:17  She followed Paul and us, crying out, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation.”

Psalm 82:1  A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:

[other one]

On 1/9/2021 at 8:55 PM, other one said:

Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy
of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was
under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it
were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the
children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat
and drink.
KJV
John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent
me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in
the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore
that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not
that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath
seen the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~
Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.
Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from
Him.
So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that
the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament.
Looking further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All
things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that
was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the
light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There
was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a
witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might
believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh
into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and
the world knew him not.
KJV
John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a
devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man
keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than
our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom
makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is
your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should
say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him,
and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and
hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel
interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with
the Father from the beginning.
It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware
of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he
existed in before he became flesh.
Further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in
fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted
him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name
of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father
worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament
times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the
Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the
Father on earth.
Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that
did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only
thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only
as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the
fleshly body.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that
I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the
very works' sake.
KJV
John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which
shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as
thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in
us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory
which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as
we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in
one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou
hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory,
which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of
the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I
have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I
have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love
wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for
the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the
Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the
Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the
firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man
came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so
in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to
God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all
authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he
hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are
put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all
things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things
under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and
authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus
will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to
Him........ The Father.
I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He
was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father
after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over
all and giving it to the Father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are
offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the
world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be
that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods
many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But to us, there is but one God, The Father of whom all things
came from......
And one Lord, Jesus whom we call the Christ, through which all things
came including us.
And we have the Holy Spirit which was sent to us from the Father at the
request of Jesus.
Interestingly, all three are one in thought, one in purpose, and one in
action. We can't interface with the Father without being indwelt by
the Holy Spirit, and we can't have the Holy Spirit without the
sacrifice and request of Jesus, and we couldn't have had Jesus without
the Father asking Him to do what he has done for us.
You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one.

 

[Waggles]

36 minutes ago, other one said:

You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one.

Thankyou 'other one'

Ephesians 2:18  For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

1Co 6:17  But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

1Co 6:19  Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 
20  for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. 

1Co 12:13  For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 
5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 
6  one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 

 

[steve morrow]

FULL  UNDERSTANDING  

ARE  NOT  THE  DIAGRAMS  AND  CHARTS  AND  OPINIONS  AND  LIES  AND  IMAGINATIONS  WORKS  OF  THE  FLESH

 

2 TIMOTHY 2:7  CONSIDER  WHAT  I  SAY  AND  THE  LORD  GIVE  THEE  UNDERSTANDING  --IN  ALL  THINGS--

PSALM 111:10  THE  FEAR  OF  THE  LORD  IS  THE  BEGINNING  OF  WISDOM  A  GOOD  UNDERSTANDING  HAVE  ALL  THEY  THAT  DO  HIS  COMMANDMENTS  HIS  PRAISE  ENDURETH  FOREVER

PSALM 119:104  THROUGH  THY  PRECEPTS  I  GET  UNDERSTANDING THEREFORE  I  HATE  EVERY  FALSE  WAY

PSALM 119:99  I  HAVE  MORE  UNDERSTANDING  THAN  ALL  MY  TEACHERS  FOR  THY  TESTIMONIES  ARE  MY  MEDITATION

REVELATION 19:10  AND  I  FELL  AT  HIS  FEET  TO  WORSHIP  HIM  AND  HE  SAID  UNTO  ME  SEE  THOU  DO  IT  NOT  I  AM  THY  FELLOWSERVANT  AND  OF  THY  BRETHREN  THAT  HAVE  THE  TESTIMONY  OF  JESUS  WORSHIP  GOD  FOR  THE  TESTIMONY  OF  JESUS  IS  THE  SPIRIT  OF  PROHECY

 

               **************************************************

1 CORINTHIANS 11:3  BUT  I  WOULD  HAVE  YOU  KNOW  THAT  THE  HEAD  OF  EVERY  MAN  IS  CHRIST  AND  THE  HEAD  OF  THE  WOMAN  IS  THE  MAN  AND  THE  HEAD  OF  ---CHRIST  IS  GOD---

 

1 CORINTHIANS 8:5  FOR  THOUGH  THERE  BE  THAT  ARE  CALLED  GODS  WHETHER  IN  HEAVEN  OR  IN  EARTH  AS  THERE  BE  GODS  MANY  AND  LORDS  MANY  

--8:6-- BUT  TO  US  THERE  IS  BUT  --ONE--  GOD  THE  FATHER  OF  WHOM  ARE  ALL  THINGS  AND  WE  IN  HIM  AND  --ONE--  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  BY  WHOM  ARE  ALL  THINGS  AND  WE  BY  HIM

2 JOHN 1:9  WHOSOEVER  TRANSGRESSETH  AND  ABIDETH  NOT  IN  THE  DOCTRINE  OF  CHRIST  HATH  NOT  GOD  HE  THAT  ABIDETH  IN  THE  DOCTRINE  OF  CHRIST  --- HE  HATH  BOTH  THE  FATHER  AND  THE  SON ---

--1:10-- IF  THERE  COME  ANY  UNTO  YOU  AND  BRING  NOT  THIS  DOCTRINE  RECEIVE  HIM  NOT  INTO  YOUR  HOUSE  NEITHER  BID  HIM  GOD  SPEE

               **************************************************

PHILIPPIANS 2:2  FINALLY  BE  YOU  ALL  OF  ONE  MIND  HAVING  COMPASSION  ONE  OF  ANOTHER  LOVE  AS  BRETHREN  BE  PITIFUL  BE  COURTEOUS

1 CORINTHIANS 2:16  FOR  WHO  HATH  KNOWN  THE  MIND  OF  THE  LORD  THAT  HE  MAY  INSTRUCT  HIM  ---  BUT  WE  HAVE  THE  MIND  OF  CHRIST --

 

PROVERBS 21:16  THE  MAN  THAT  WANDERETH  OUT  OF  THE  WAY  OF  UNDERSTANDING  SHALL  REMAIN  IN  THE  CONGREGATION  OF  THE  DEAD

PROBERBS 8:14  COUNSEL  IS  MINE  AND  SOUND  WISDOM  ---I  AM  UNDERSTANDING  I  HAVE  STRENGTH---

 

PROVERBS 24:1  BE  NOT  THOU  ENVIOUS  AGAINST  EVIL  MEN  NEITHER  DESIRE  TO  BE  WITH  THEM  --24:2--  FOR  THEIR  HEART  STUDIETH  DESTRUCTION  AND  THEIR  LIPS  TALK  OF  MISCHIEF

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[popsthebuilder]

3 hours ago, other one said:

 

My friend; i don't mean to knit pick, but we should ever be careful to not declare limits to the means and abilities of GOD; let alone declaring we do the works of GOD. I don't think you meant that we do the works of GOD so much as GOD is well pleased to bring about HIS works through the sincere believer, but the wording was alarming to me.  To say we may have knowledge equal to GOD almighty is not good, and reminds me of the deception of Eve. May it ever be enough for the faithful to but witness and attain to what GOD wills.

"for the Father to do His work

through Jesus to us so we could

know the
Father as the Father knows us.

Thus we now can do the work of the
Father."

[Waggles]

Exodus 3:2  And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 
Exo 3:3  And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 
Exo 3:4  And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 
Exo 3:5  And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 
Exo 3:6  Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 

Genesis 19:24  Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 
25  And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 

Judges 6:22  And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face. 
23  And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die. 

1Chronicles 21:16  And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.

Exodus 23:20  “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. 
21  Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. 

2Samuel 7:13  He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

Malachi 1:11  For from the rising of the sun to its setting my name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense will be offered to my name, and a pure offering. For my name will be great among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Waggles

[other one]

3 hours ago, popsthebuilder said:

My friend; i don't mean to knit pick, but we should ever be careful to not declare limits to the means and abilities of GOD; let alone declaring we do the works of GOD. I don't think you meant that we do the works of GOD so much as GOD is well pleased to bring about HIS works through the sincere believer, but the wording was alarming to me.  To say we may have knowledge equal to GOD almighty is not good, and reminds me of the deception of Eve. May it ever be enough for the faithful to but witness and attain to what GOD wills.

"for the Father to do His work

through Jesus to us so we could

know the
Father as the Father knows us.

Thus we now can do the work of the
Father."

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[popsthebuilder]

34 minutes ago, other one said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Well i wont focus on it any longer. Wouldn't want to derail tye thread.