Is there a rule anywhere that says God has to create everything new?

[JohnR7]

On 1/10/2021 at 5:52 PM, Riverwalker said:

Forgive me for stirring the pot, but what if God created the world 4.5 billion years old, 6000 years ago?   Would not all the tools we have point to an old earth?

We have our Bible, History book and Biology book. You can buy a used High School Biology book on Amazon for about $12 Even though some of these books cost up to $300 new. We need to study History & Science if we want to understand our Bible. 

God asked Job: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand". (Job 38:4) Can anyone answer this question? 

[Charlie744]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:52 PM, JohnR7 said:

Man - Adam received the "breath of life" 6,000 years ago . (Genesis 2:7) Science tells us that it took Billions of years for the elements to be created.

What is God asking Job when He said: "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding". (Job 38:4) 

            Thanks for the response.  Once again, Genesis tells us that God created Adam on the 6th day and might have given him all the internal and external characteristics of a 26 year old young man. If he was instantly transported to today's time and evaluated by anyone of today's doctors using CT scans, MRI's, all of today's modern tests, I believe it would be safe to say that their evaluation would be he is very healthy 26 year old........ however, on his intake form Adam would have revealed he birth day as being no more than one day old....... 

          This is the same for the earth and the universe, etc. I also do agree with you that "science" tells us.......", but I am going to have to go with God on this one.... 

John, it is interesting to me when I read your reply....

1) You relied on the Bible to determine Adam was created ~ 6,000 years ago,

2) You could have easily relied on the Bible to determine the age of the universe by walking back from Gen. 2:7 to 2:6, 2:5, 2:4 and so on, and found we only needed to add an additional 5 days...... instead, you departed from the "source"of Adam's creation event and went straight to the "science of man" as your source. The Bible was sufficient to determine when Adam was created, why is it not the same for the rocks?

3) You then returned to a Bible verse in Job in support of your determination the universe is billions of years old ("science of man" source),

               a) I find this verse in Job does not confirm at all when God laid the foundations of the earth.... HE is simply asking Job, "where were you"?  Job was not sought our his advice 5 days before God created Adam....

   If you do not mind, can you share why the Bible should not be used to determine both the time when Adam and the universe were created? God's method of creating man and the rocks just could be the same..... don't you think?

    Personally, I do not understand why folks are willing to use the science of man as their source over the Word of God..... I would feel comfortable saying that most scientists are evolutionists....  this has its origins about 200 years ago with Darwin! I would bet that if Darwin took anyone of today's 8th grade biology exams he would fail miserably!!!!!! 

Where was Darwin when God laid the foundation of the earth?

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Charlie744

[Waggles]

13 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Personally, I do not understand why folks are willing to use the science of man as their source over the Word of God..... I would feel comfortable saying that most scientists are evolutionists....  this has its origins about 200 years ago with Darwin! I would bet that if Darwin took anyone of today's 8th grade biology exams he would fail miserably!!!!!! 

Just because we do not read Genesis 1 through the eyes of mediaeval RCC teachings does not make us Darwinists nor evolutionists.

I do not have a problem with Adam and Eve being formed (fashioned from dirt) some 6,000 years ago to begin the story of Israel and salvation. 

But Genesis 1 is another story and there is no necessity to read Genesis as a Sunday school story of six literal 24 hour days; especially when three days came and went before the Sun and Moon and stars were made to regulate earthly times and seasons. 

[Riverwalker]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:19 PM, JohnR7 said:

We have our Bible, History book and Biology book. You can buy a used High School Biology book on Amazon for about $12 Even though some of these books cost up to $300 new. We need to study History & Science if we want to understand our Bible. 

God asked Job: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand". (Job 38:4) Can anyone answer this question? 

And yet, only one of them was written by God

So if the one that was written by man disagrees with what God says? its in the trash

 

[BeyondET]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

            Thanks for the response.  Once again, Genesis tells us that God created Adam on the 6th day and might have given him all the internal and external characteristics of a 26 year old young man. If he was instantly transported to today's time and evaluated by anyone of today's doctors using CT scans, MRI's, all of today's modern tests, I believe it would be safe to say that their evaluation would be he is very healthy 26 year old........ however, on his intake form Adam would have revealed he birth day as being no more than one day old....... 

          This is the same for the earth and the universe, etc. I also do agree with you that "science" tells us.......", but I am going to have to go with God on this one.... 

John, it is interesting to me when I read your reply....

1) You relied on the Bible to determine Adam was created ~ 6,000 years ago,

2) You could have easily relied on the Bible to determine the age of the universe by walking back from Gen. 2:7 to 2:6, 2:5, 2:4 and so on, and found we only needed to add an additional 5 days...... instead, you departed from the "source"of Adam's creation event and went straight to the "science of man" as your source. The Bible was sufficient to determine when Adam was created, why is it not the same for the rocks?

3) You then returned to a Bible verse in Job in support of your determination the universe is billions of years old ("science of man" source),

               a) I find this verse in Job does not confirm at all when God laid the foundations of the earth.... HE is simply asking Job, "where were you"?  Job was not sought our his advice 5 days before God created Adam....

   If you do not mind, can you share why the Bible should not be used to determine both the time when Adam and the universe were created? God's method of creating man and the rocks just could be the same..... don't you think?

    Personally, I do not understand why folks are willing to use the science of man as their source over the Word of God..... I would feel comfortable saying that most scientists are evolutionists....  this has its origins about 200 years ago with Darwin! I would bet that if Darwin took anyone of today's 8th grade biology exams he would fail miserably!!!!!! 

Where was Darwin when God laid the foundation of the earth?

Just my thoughts, Charlie

 

 

 

People use a 24 hours for each day, when the word clearly states that only when the lights are in the expanse and the sun is created then man can use them for days and years, seasons.

its man science that adds hours to days before lights in the expanse. its the same assumption as billion of years.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Waggles said:

Just because we do not read Genesis 1 through the eyes of mediaeval RCC teachings does not make us Darwinists nor evolutionists.

I do not have a problem with Adam and Eve being formed (fashioned from dirt) some 6,000 years ago to begin the story of Israel and salvation. 

But Genesis 1 is another story and there is no necessity to read Genesis as a Sunday school story of six literal 24 hour days; especially when three days came and went before the Sun and Moon and stars were made to regulate earthly times and seasons. 

Waggles, I certainly understand your comments.... once again, just my thoughts, Charlie

[Charlie744]

22 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

People use a 24 hours for each day, when the word clearly states that only when the lights are in the expanse and the sun is created then man can use them for days and years, seasons.

its man science that adds hours to days before lights in the expanse. its the same assumption as billion of years.

Thanks and there are certainly many folks who agree with you..... and that is okay for sure!

But I do not believe God needed or needs man to determine what a day is... God is telling us He did this on Day 1, and that on Day 2..... and so on....Why do we feel the need to "add" our two cents to this......? Just because the sun / moon / orbit is how we account for a day does not mean God did not have His own pocket watch in his hand counting the hours......

Here we have God creating time itself and we are willing to question Him or whether the first few days are really billions of years or just days as He stated..... How in the world can we have billions of years when He just recently made one day? Can you at least wait a few years before you claim He did this in say, a million years..... let Him create one year first!

Also, are you would you say that God did not create Adam in one sitting / day or did He wait 26 years before Adam matured....?

God has clearly made it known that He it would take a truly billion X billion years for Him to explain to us how He created everything.... and we would have been found to be glazed over after the first few seconds.... we could never understood it... so He did not provide this to us... I do not find it necessary to put words in His mouth or speak for Him .... I have more than enough trouble trying to understand almost all of what He has written....

Again, everyone has great thoughts and comments and we can share them here..... so, just my thoughts, Charlie

[BeyondET]

32 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks and there are certainly many folks who agree with you..... and that is okay for sure!

But I do not believe God needed or needs man to determine what a day is... God is telling us He did this on Day 1, and that on Day 2..... and so on....Why do we feel the need to "add" our two cents to this......? Just because the sun / moon / orbit is how we account for a day does not mean God did not have His own pocket watch in his hand counting the hours......

Here we have God creating time itself and we are willing to question Him or whether the first few days are really billions of years or just days as He stated..... How in the world can we have billions of years when He just recently made one day? Can you at least wait a few years before you claim He did this in say, a million years..... let Him create one year first!

Also, are you would you say that God did not create Adam in one sitting / day or did He wait 26 years before Adam matured....?

God has clearly made it known that He it would take a truly billion X billion years for Him to explain to us how He created everything.... and we would have been found to be glazed over after the first few seconds.... we could never understood it... so He did not provide this to us... I do not find it necessary to put words in His mouth or speak for Him .... I have more than enough trouble trying to understand almost all of what He has written....

Again, everyone has great thoughts and comments and we can share them here..... so, just my thoughts, Charlie

I agree we can not know for sure how long creation was in the beginning rather a long amount of time or a short amount of time of a day in creation.

there is one thing for sure genesis was translated from another language to English and where it says day the original word was Yom which has multiple meanings, short time or a longer time. but a lot of English speakers would agree with you on a shorter time meaning of Yom as far as a English Theory of Yom being shorter.

the truth is we could go around and around on the length of a day yet neither of us can be spot on.

the sun and moon orbit is not the only way to account of day, the lights in the expanse are used also

Edited April 23, 2021 by BeyondET

[Charlie744]

41 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

I agree we can not know for sure how long creation was in the beginning rather a long amount of time or a short amount of time of a day in creation.

there is one thing for sure genesis was translated from another language to English and where it says day the original word was Yom which has multiple meanings, short time or a longer time. but a lot of English speakers would agree with you on a shorter time meaning of Yom as far as a English Theory of Yom being shorter.

the truth is we could go around and around on the length of a day yet neither of us can be spot on.

the sun and moon orbit is not the only way to account of day, the lights in the expanse are used also

You are so right! But I am not going to make trouble for myself here..... I really do not want to face God and have Him ask me, "so you seem to have problems with my wording in the first few verses of Genesis"? 

No, I am not going to want to be there for that one..... but I do know that God is so consistent...... Although we will NEVER understand probably 3 % of the bible until we are with HIM, I believe we should not think to say to Him, "oh, I know you just created the first 3 days, and yes, you labeled them "a day" each and, yes, I also realize the other 4 days are just 24 hours long but I really have to challenge you on your use of the word "Yom" here..... Do you think you should have used a different word? How come you did not use "millions of years"?  Yes I know, you just created a day, but are you sure?  

Just joking of course, but we may not understand how He did it but I believe He did it just as He said He did....... Each of the 7 days must be consistent regardless of how much or how long we think it took Him to create things in those "YOM's". 

Just my thoughts, and thanks again for your thoughts!!! Charlie

[BeyondET]

22 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

You are so right! But I am not going to make trouble for myself here..... I really do not want to face God and have Him ask me, "so you seem to have problems with my wording in the first few verses of Genesis"? 

No, I am not going to want to be there for that one..... but I do know that God is so consistent...... Although we will NEVER understand probably 3 % of the bible until we are with HIM, I believe we should not think to say to Him, "oh, I know you just created the first 3 days, and yes, you labeled them "a day" each and, yes, I also realize the other 4 days are just 24 hours long but I really have to challenge you on your use of the word "Yom" here..... Do you think you should have used a different word? How come you did not use "millions of years"?  Yes I know, you just created a day, but are you sure?  

Just joking of course, but we may not understand how He did it but I believe He did it just as He said He did....... Each of the 7 days must be consistent regardless of how much or how long we think it took Him to create things in those "YOM's". 

Just my thoughts, and thanks again for your thoughts!!! Charlie

there is one thing i think you wont have a problem with is a question like that when God knows no man was present during creation. i see you hold on to the short time meaning of Yom. i could say why didn't you use sidereal day.

why do people assume the day in genesis 2 is just A slang word for you know back in the day'

GEN 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

Edited April 23, 2021 by BeyondET