Was Jesus a sinner?

[apothanein kerdos]

Three sabbath topics...do you really think that's needed?

No one is advocating He broke the Sabbath...what we advocate is He broke man's interpertation, including your own, of the Sabbath.

Your interpretation of the Sabbath is what He broke.

Now could you please stop accusing those of us who hold a different view than you do of the Sabbath?

[other one]

Super Jew, I have ask those of you who hold a different fiew of the sabbath to explain it in detail in 4 different threads and all I ever get is listed the fourth commandment of the ten commandments. If there is something different please let me know.

And by the way some of us who think differently about the sabbath are tired of some of you telling us that we are going to hell because we are not following his commandments.

So I guess we are all a little miffed at each other arnt we...........

[Guest a mans worth]

The truth is in the word of God

so let me first tell those who does not know wha the word of God is. The word of God is the Bible and there is also the truth.

The Bible is suppose to be our guide in life so I will no tell you the answer to this but will give something that will help you.

[Guest Zayit]

Other one, I already told you I didn't want to derail the other thread so would start a new one. You said you thought it would get my attention.

Now No one came out directly and said Yeshua/Jesus was a sinner, we all know he could'nt be because if he was he could not be the spotless lamb that took away the sins of the world.

So with that said, we have to address how some think he "broke" the Shabbat laws.

I would hesitate to say that not many here have studied the Shabbat laws therefore do not even know if he was being accused fairly, they just look at the outcome and justify doing what he did as changing it, or as someone mentioned, being flexible. But our G-d changes not he told us that himself, so why is this the acception?

See he wanted to heal on the Shabbat, if you do a study you will see that he did most of his healing on Shabbat, why do you think that is? Because it is doing G-ds work and he said that his father and he were still working but yet the priests worked in the tabernacle and temple on Shabbat but were blameless ( they could not be accused of sinning.)

When G-d gave his laws his intention was that they were on the hearts of all his people, to do right, good first by him and then by each other,

1. Love the L-RD your G-d With all your heart your soul and your strength

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

All the commandments that he gave were to show how this was to be done, how else does a born sinner know what is good according to G-d, not himself, remember his ways and thoughts are not the same as ours.

So When the command to keep Shabbat Holy was given certain things were specified ( no gathering food, cooking it, etc) no work, but the definition of work was not defined but because it is in the same portion where the commands for building of the Miskan ( tabernacle) were, it was decided that no creative work could be done on Shabbat. Now what Yeshua was doing was creative work, but, and this is a BIG but, it was a good work and for someone else, thus it was good to do and did not Break the Shabbat laws.

If you wish to follow in his footsteps by healing on the Sabbath then do so ! It is not wrongful to do so then nor now, but he still did not violate the laws he gave regaurding Shabbat he just interpreted them with heart, remember he said to them "Go and learn what this means, I will have mercy and not sacrifice" That is the heart of love and obedience, not that you no longer have to follow his laws but they are written upon your heart and you seek to do his will for his will is always good.

[Guest Zayit]

Many here on these forums have accused him of such, like this:

Jesus violated the Sabbath Laws when he was here by his own admission so I think it is safe to say that He doesn't expect me to follow them either.

But is that true, and what are the ramifications if it is, Is your salvation intact, Is your salvation based on sin?

Let's use this thread where you can post anything from the Gospels that Jesus did, or said that you feel broke any of the Laws of the Torah. Let us start with the one mentioned above. Please list all the times Jesus broke the laws of Shabbat.

I especially would like to start with the one that he broke of his own admission.

Keep in mind I am not being your accuser, but I am standing up for my redeemer.

Note: Not to be devisive but I would rather that this stay a non-SDA thread please.

[Trinity]

Jesus was faithful unto the Law, HE MADE THE LAW! The Jews Messed with the Law and made it more strict then God intended it to be, Jesus followed the rules He HIMSELF set, Not what man added to His Law.

[Kabowd]

I highly doubt that anyone is advocating that Jesus sinned....

[Guest Blessed by Association]

Jesus never sinned and is therefore not a sinner! Because a sinner is a person who is seperated from God. Jesus is not a sinner because He was not seperated from God.

As for Him breaking the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was Made for MAN and Man for the SABBATH. Then the Sabbath was made for Jesus, the Son of Man, to take care of other men whom the Sabbath was made for.

Jesus followed the Law because He Made it.

The Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes were not and I repeat NOT keepers of the Law!!

They were keepers of Traditions which they derived from the law.

For example the account of the woman caught in adultery. " The Law of Moses says that she should be stoned but Leviticus and deuteronomy says that BOTH the man and the woman should be stoned and that is why Jesus never spoke and just wrote in the sand.

Jesus was and is the law! Not just because He made it but because He himself says that He did not come to destroy it but to fulfill the Law.

Jesus never broke the Sabbath but Kept it Holy by doing wht His Father commanded by Loving the Lord you God with all His Hearth, soul and strength and loving His neighbor as Himself

[Mikeyjay]

[halifaxchristian]

As for the woman caught in adultery...I am sure that Jesus would not have stoned either one of them, even if they were both in His presence at that time. Jesus didn't say not to stone them...He merely said that the person without sin SHOULD. Why didn't Jesus fulfill the Law in this instance? He did. Not by the letter, but by the spirit. The woman did die, did she not??? She died to sin that day, I believe. By a stoning??? Yes, by the stone cut without hands.

What I am trying to say is this: Jesus may have not fulfilled the Law in the way that man wanted Him to, but He filfilled it the way the Father wanted Him to. I don't pretend to know all of the answers intellectually, but spiritually, I know that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Law and transgressed not once. He is our Saviour!!! God bless...