What part of us goes to be with God in death?

[Frits]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

ANGELs walk around in bodies, even fallen angels had bodies.  On the Mount of transfiguration they had bodies.  The elders have bodies.  The creatures have bodies.  Christ has a body.  OUR BODY is a part of our spirit/soul. 

Hi sis,

Love to read your posts, please continue.

My vision:

The earthly situation as a whole is a reflection or expression of the heavenly reality. But the heavenly is higher and more valuable than the earthly.
Examples:
Adam had to reign as king on earth, he was thus (until his fall!) a reflection of God the Father who rules in heaven.
The firmament around the earth, the sun, the moon, and the stars are real. But they are also a reflection or expression of heaven, of God, of the Son, and of the angels.
Our earthly body has feeling, is tangible and the heart is in the innermost part.
But our earthly body is only a temporary reflection or expression of our heavenly body, our spirit, with the soul within.
The body is the expression of the spirit, the heart of the soul.
Spirit and soul of man are therefore one;  can be distinguished, but cannot be separated!  Just as the earthly body cannot function without the heart.  When I say to my wife, "Honey, I love you with all of my soul!"  Could I also say, "Honey, I love you with all my heart!"
There is a correlation between the two.
When people meet, they touch each other's body, giving a hand or a kiss.  (Before Covid!)
This is a wonderful habit, but again this is an expression of invisible feelings.
If we now want to have communion with the Holy Spirit of God, we do not do that with our earthly body, but with our spiritual body: we lift ourselves up in prayer with our spirit and soul.
First, body with body, then spirit with Spirit. Here too, there is a natural correlation.

 

God bless.

[Uber Genius]

 

The Intermediate State in the New Testament

Published online by Cambridge University Press:  30 January 2009

"The notion of a post-mortem disembodied existence of the soul followed by resurrection on the last day has been part of traditional Christian theology for centuries. Though some modern theologians are unhappy with this doctrine and have tried to re-interpret it or reject it altogether, it cannot be denied that traditional Christian theology has always taught this. This view was held by many of the Church Fathers and by the Reformers. Today it is still the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church and some Protestant Churches."

Now let's start to look at why this is the case, sans shots from the peanut gallery.

to follow some earlier church fathers on same.

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Frits said:

Hi sis,

Love to read your posts, please continue.

My vision:

The earthly situation as a whole is a reflection or expression of the heavenly reality. But the heavenly is higher and more valuable than the earthly.
Examples:
Adam had to reign as king on earth, he was thus (until his fall!) a reflection of God the Father who rules in heaven.
The firmament around the earth, the sun, the moon, and the stars are real. But they are also a reflection or expression of heaven, of God, of the Son, and of the angels.
Our earthly body has feeling, is tangible and the heart is in the innermost part.
But our earthly body is only a temporary reflection or expression of our heavenly body, our spirit, with the soul within.
The body is the expression of the spirit, the heart of the soul.
Spirit and soul of man are therefore one;  can be distinguished, but cannot be separated!  Just as the earthly body cannot function without the heart.  When I say to my wife, "Honey, I love you with all of my soul!"  Could I also say, "Honey, I love you with all my heart!"
There is a correlation between the two.
When people meet, they touch each other's body, giving a hand or a kiss.  (Before Covid!)
This is a wonderful habit, but again this is an expression of invisible feelings.
If we now want to have communion with the Holy Spirit of God, we do not do that with our earthly body, but with our spiritual body: we lift ourselves up in prayer with our spirit and soul.
First, body with body, then spirit with Spirit. Here too, there is a natural correlation.

 

God bless.

Thank the Lord above!!!  Spiritual eyes, nice.  Thank you.  I needed that.  Peace and calm came back upon me. 

I look at this time as a 'flesh dream' away from our real life with the Lord.  Totally agree would rather be with the Lord, but we got work to do.  

But the connection you speak of was first made clear to me when I read 

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And IT WAS KINDA SCARY realizing such a CLOSE connection. It's one thing thinking it and another seeing IT WRITTEN.   Keeps ya on your toes though.  

Which brings me to this verse that I would like to hear your thoughts on.  (I would give you mine but I do not have any, uhh)  

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Any thoughts?  Knowledge?  Revelations?  

[Your closest friendnt]

 

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

"First of all, and from a philosophical perspective, the soul is pure spirit and is the form of the body.

By the “form,” we mean it actualizes the potentiality of the body.

Without the soul, the body is not even a body; It is a corpse. It is reduced to its constitutive parts.

But what is most important for us here is the fact that the soul is spiritual in nature.

It has no parts. You cannot divide up into constitutive parts that which has no parts at all.

Thus, the idea of dividing the soul into two parts analogous to the division of soul and body makes no sense."

Mind you, I am not saying the author is correct; 

The disciples observed that Jesus after his resurrection was acting in a peculiar way. 

They had been established to the fact that Jesus was raised from the place of the dead and this is not the first time they witnessed someone raised from the dead;

About two weeks ago they witnessed Jesus raised from the place of the dead but not from Hades but from the Bossom of Abraham. 

This all the Israelites understood because at death their Inheritance was to be gathered to Abraham their Patriarch. 

The disciples had the experience to witness that after Jesus raised Lasarus from the dead, Lasarus resumed living his life just like in the same manner as he was doing before and as before looking forwards to the day he will die.

With Jesus Christ the disciples were in many ways wondering as they witness a lot of his behavior was the same as the behavior of a Spirit. 

When the Jews use the word Spirit within this context they include the understanding that the person in the Spirit is the person without their phycical body.

It's like what we have in a man when his body dies and he has to live his dead body.

A man in the Spirit within this context is in the form of his soul. 

There is not any earthy material in him, he is made out of Spiritual substance if we can say that, as a result he is not subject for one thing to gravity and to virus or germs and he cannot eat any food.

Food is material.

Water is material. 

It's not strange to people that someone who has not died yet, he can still be in the Spirit form. 

His body in one place and in the Spirit form in another. 

Not to be confused we have distinguish between the Spirit of man as in the case when someone can put his Spirit upon someone else and control that person.

Or poses the person for a time....

When the Jews in the context we are talking when the body of a person dies and they say his Spirit they do not separate the soul and the Spirit of the Person, as it is impossible to have a soul without a Spirit.

Jesus Christ who understand the thoughts of the disciples he said to them: come and touch me and feel my bones and my flesh, and he continue to tell them that I am not a Spirit , that is him, and he asked them to served him food and drink and he ate what they put in front of him.

Further proof that it is him as he was after he was raised from the dead.  For they knew that the  same thing happened to him as it happened with Lasarus that at the time when he was raised from the dead Jesus Christ did not remained in the Spirit form, in the Spirit form as he was imidiadly upon his death and it is the same for everyone who dies, and who Jesus Christ being in that form went in the place of the dead and was raised up to go back to his body and the events of his raised from the dead are written in the prophets and the Gospel as it was witness by his disciples. 

What was the disciples wondering about as they knew that he was raised from the dead unto his body was because of the fact that Jesus Christ was acting like a Spirit, if Jesus Christ had left his body some place and he appear to them as if he was a Spirit. 

Jesus sow them proof that this is not the case and had food and drinks with let them fill his wounds in his body.

This is what happened to Jesus and it happened for the first time and to no one before who had been raised from the dead. 

For Jesus Christ after he was raised from the dead he was not the same as he was before. 

And he stayed with the disciples for about forty days before he ascended into the Heavenly Father and he assumed his duties as the Lord and Christ and as the Judge of all for he was sited on his Throne. 

He is not studying there Law related books to learn how to Judge...no of course not, the Heavenly Father gave him everything he had so Jesus Christ can begin to Judge imediatly, for the Father gave everything to his Son including the  Judgement of All, as the Father is not Judging anyone. 

What about us, just do not dream the same thing to happened to anyone else.

For we die and our body remains with the people left behind and our Spirit (as in our Spiritual self) is going to the one who brought with his blood, as we are his Inheritance and he has given us a place in Heaven as our abode.

While our body remains on the earth as nothing earthly can inherit Heaven and we are the witness that Jesus Christ did nothing to stop the decay .

There is also the big difference that Jesus Christ had to be taken with his body on Heaven, quite a few reasons.

And he had to go to the place of the dead and be raised from their unto his body and the fact that he was not only Heavenly and the Son of God.

But he was the one with the Life.

He was not from the seed of man.

And we are the seed of man, we have a earthly father. 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Thank the Lord above!!!  Spiritual eyes, nice.  Thank you.  I needed that.  Peace and calm came back upon me. 

I look at this time as a 'flesh dream' away from our real life with the Lord.  Totally agree would rather be with the Lord, but we got work to do.  

But the connection you speak of was first made clear to me when I read 

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And IT WAS KINDA SCARY realizing such a CLOSE connection. It's one thing thinking it and another seeing IT WRITTEN.   Keeps ya on your toes though.  

Which brings me to this verse that I would like to hear your thoughts on.  (I would give you mine but I do not have any, uhh)  

 

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Any thoughts?  Knowledge?  Revelations?  

The key words in Jesus statement is the time he said this statement applies to: 

Jesus said " from the days of John the Baptist until now. 

Jesus is referring to the resistance and the prosecution and the violence upon him from the Jews.

He is telling that the Jews will not accept him, as he is the kingdom of God, he is the one who brings the kingdom, and the Jews are prosecuting him .

The violence is that he will suffer violence from the Jews, but he will not resist, believing that they prevail towards him, when they put him to the Cross. 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

The key words in Jesus statement is the time he said this statement applies to: 

Jesus said " from the days of John the Baptist until now. 

Jesus is referring to the resistance and the prosecution and the violence upon him from the Jews.

He is telling that the Jews will not accept him, as he is the kingdom of God, he is the one who brings the kingdom, and the Jews are prosecuting him .

The violence is that he will suffer violence from the Jews, but he will not resist, believing that they prevail towards him, when they put him to the Cross. 

 

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

 

The key words in Jesus statement is the time he said this statement applies to: 

Jesus said " from the days of John the Baptist until now. 

Jesus is referring to the resistance and the prosecution and the violence upon him from the Jews.

He is telling that the Jews will not accept him, as he is the kingdom of God, he is the one who brings the kingdom, and the Jews are prosecuting him .

The violence is that he will suffer violence from the Jews, but he will not resist, believing that they prevail towards him, when they put him to the Cross. 

I humbly thank you.  God Bless and good night

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Josheb said:

The plain and simple fact is Jesus had a body when he resurrected and he had a body when he ascended. There's no point where scripture reports him being a disembodied spirit. Neither is there any report of disembodied spirits elsewhere in scripture. The corpse of flesh decays but that does not mean we are absent a body and folks who take single verses out of their contexts are not - by definition - looking at the whole. 

As usual an interesting take. 

"Jesus had a body when he resurrected"

Scripture is silent on what went on those three days in the grave.

"There's no point where scripture reports him being a disembodied spirit." 

That's a lack of evidence, not positive evidence. 

"The corpse of flesh decays but that does not mean we are absent a body"

Doesn't mean we aren't either. Again, scripture is silent on this.

I suppose we would have to examine Lazarus and the rich man. 

But even in that gap filling is required where scripture does not speak. 

The only place I see anything about the body is 1 Cor 14:44-46 or so. 

Maybe there is a passage that exactly explains what happens to our spirit when we die and that we are ensconced in some 'spiritual body' [a contradiction in my mind]. If so where is it?

Otherwise it's speculation and gap filling and I'm not even convinced it's a fruitful discussion.

 

[Justin Adams]

39 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Otherwise it's speculation and gap filling and I'm not even convinced it's a fruitful discussion.

Yeshua apparently went to Hades to tell the spirits in chains that there was now a new cosmic order. The apostle tells us He 'preached' to the spirits in the nether world. If you follow Enoch, you may see where he was asked to intercede by the fallen holy ones in Tartarus. In that case, God told him 'no dice' and I suggest that Yeshua did the same and explained that the veil being torn was not a thing of hope for them but spelled their doom precisely. I.e. they were dead, and He was dead - but He was going to arise and conquer death and overcome their aberrations completely.

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Yeshua apparently went to Hades to tell the spirits in chains that there was now a new cosmic order. The apostle tells us He 'preached' to the spirits in the nether world. If you follow Enoch, you may see where he was asked to intercede by the fallen holy ones in Tartarus. In that case, God told him 'no dice' and I suggest that Yeshua did the same and explained that the veil being torn was not a thing of hope for them but spelled their doom precisely. I.e. they were dead, and He was dead - but He was going to arise and conquer death and overcome their aberrations completely.

Scripture along for me...

[enoob57]

15 hours ago, Josheb said:

Non sequitur

 

Uber, it's your post that treats those in dissent poorly. The plain and simple fact is Jesus had a body when he resurrected and he had a body when he ascended. There's no point where scripture reports him being a disembodied spirit. Neither is there any report of disembodied spirits elsewhere in scripture. The corpse of flesh decays but that does not mean we are absent a body and folks who take single verses out of their contexts are not - by definition - looking at the whole. 

 

And not a word of derision changes those facts. 

 

.

I believe this all could be broke down to significance by eternity past before creation... where only God existed in Spirit...