Willa Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who were renouncing Christ and turning back to the Jewish religion. I do believe it is possible for a person to renounce their faith, but it may be due to allowing their hearts to grow cold due to unrepented sin. Sins of the heart like pride and self-righteousness can be very devious. It is so important to stay in fellowship. It is a scary thing to lose our desire to fellowship, to pray or to read our Bibles. This should be a wake up call to any Christian. We are warned that in the last days there will be apostates. 2 Thes. 2:3. We need to be on guard. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 28, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.56 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Willa said: The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who were renouncing Christ and turning back to the Jewish religion. I do believe it is possible for a person to renounce their faith, but it may be due to allowing their hearts to grow cold due to unrepented sin. Sins of the heart like pride and self-righteousness can be very devious. It is so important to stay in fellowship. It is a scary thing to lose our desire to fellowship, to pray or to read our Bibles. This should be a wake up call to any Christian. We are warned that in the last days there will be apostates. 2 Thes. 2:3. We need to be on guard. Salvation is not by works, which what you are here espousing. Oh, we must keep doing this and that; but, if we don't keep doing it enough, then we could become dead and lose our salvation! No, no, no! Salvation is by GRACE, through faith, and that not of ourselves, not of our works, prayers, fellowship, faithfulness, diligence or anything else! These are fruit from our salvation, not conditions for obtaining or keeping it. Hebrews was written to Jews who had heard the gospel. The author wrote to them, not as those who might not go on to faith in the Messiah and return to Judaism; but as those who had already gone on to faith in the Messiah and were thus saved. Here is the part of Heb. 6 that gets will worshippers all excited. Look, look, you CAN lose your salvation. Told you so! Heb. 6:4-8 (WEB) 4 For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame. 7 For the land which has drunk the rain that comes often on it, and produces a crop suitable for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near being cursed, whose end is to be burned. ...but they must have ripped verse 9 out of their Bibles. Heb. 6:9 (WEB) But, beloved, we are persuaded of better things for you, and things that accompany salvation, even though we speak like this. Jesus came to save, not to make saveable. All that the Father has given to Jesus WILL come to him and he who comes to Jesus will not be cast out, but will be raised up at the last day. The Bible declares that salvation is to know God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent; but, Jesus declares to the false Christians, "Depart from me, you who work iniquity, I NEVER knew you.". It is not that Jesus knew them at one time, but they then left him. No, it is that he never knew them, because they were not born again and never had that relationship with the Lord that all those whom the Lord has saved have, and know that they have. Edited January 28, 2021 by David1701 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 29, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2021 I do not believe in salvation by works as you accuse me of saying. However, we are also told that those who would be justified by the law are no longer in Christ. They are apostate. You can't trust in the law to save you. It is the schoolmaster that leads you to Christ. When we find we are unable to keep the law in our own power God writes the law on our hearts. We truly love others when we trust in Christ and He lives in us. Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. I do believe that salvation is by grace through faith, a gift from God not of works. I said I believe it is possible for a person to renounce his faith and become apostate. God does keep all who want to be kept by Him, who cling to and rely upon Him in faith. That is the definition of believe, to trust in, cling to and rely upon. God does chasten those He loves and will do so to keep us. So He does severely chasten those who become prideful and/or self-righteous. Warning signs of back sliding are: no desire to study the Word, poor prayer life, no desire for fellowship etc. People can't practice these things to be saved. They are just a wake up call when we find we no longer want to do these things. People who continue in unrepentance, in habitual sin, are vulnerable to deception and other devices of the enemy. It is a dangerous place to find oneself in. Moreover, it is a miserable place without the fruit of the Spirit: without love, joy, peace, patience kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self control. 1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK1110 Posted January 29, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 6,873 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 9,609 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/18/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/10/1986 Share Posted January 29, 2021 19 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I have not thought about Jn 13 in that manner. I think about humility as we go out and serve others. Or how the feet are "swift to do evil" (judas), but the feet that Jesus washed were " shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace" ( Eph. 6:15). I won't pretend to take credit for it. Got it from this video. "It just so happened" to be a part of my devotions a few days ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 29, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.56 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, Willa said: I do not believe in salvation by works as you accuse me of saying. Salvation by Grace The deciding factor in your salvation, is the Lord working in you, by his grace, based on his accomplished work, on the cross. He who began a good work in you will continue it to the end. Salvation by Man's Will and Works He who began a good work in you merely wants to continue it to the end but you might thwart him, by your so-called sovereign free will. The deciding factor in your salvation is not the Lord's grace, but whether or not you maintain sufficient faithfulness. Which side are you on? Be honest. Don't play games by claiming that you believe that salvation is by God's grace, then deny it, by saying that you can thwart God's grace (meaning that the deciding factor is not the Lord's grace, but you). Edited January 29, 2021 by David1701 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted January 29, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.56 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I believe that this is a somber reminder that salvation is not based on a feeling or anything that we have done. In the end of your earthly journey if you have that confidence and hope in Christ ( and no hardness in your heart) there is a high likelihood that you were chosen by God and can never be separated from Him. No hardness in your heart? So, you need to have PERFECT softness of heart, even to have a "high likelihood" that you were chosen by God? What a load of man-centred nonsense! I sometimes wonder how many "Christians" actually know the Lord at all. Edited January 29, 2021 by David1701 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted January 29, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 253 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 8:37 AM, Justin Adams said: That is a very foolish statement. Read and understand Hebrews to get it right. Do NOT mislead other believers with a wall of words. Jesus taught a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The personal testimony I received from God when I believed is that I am sealed, eternally secure. God revealed this to me personally, and I believe Him. Jesus taught that Satan does not cast out Satan, and I believe Him. This is also taught in Scripture; one needs eyes to see it. Nothing in Hebrews or any other book of the Bible contradicts it. But God has put a lot of hard sayings in the Bible. Read Matthew 13:10-17 for why that is. But I was translated into the kingdom of His dear Son, and I understand perfectly why Jesus taught that the one who speaks against the Holy Spirit does not have forgiveness, but that all other manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven. How can one who has received the witness of the Holy Spirit speak against this? This testimony is God's earnest. If one speaks against the Holy Spirit, it's rather a sign that such a one has not received the Spirit of Christ and is thus none of His (Romans 8:9). 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,189 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,351 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Don19 said: Jesus taught a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. The personal testimony I received from God when I believed is that I am sealed, eternally secure. God revealed this to me personally, and I believe Him. Jesus taught that Satan does not cast out Satan, and I believe Him. This is also taught in Scripture; one needs eyes to see it. Nothing in Hebrews or any other book of the Bible contradicts it. But God has put a lot of hard sayings in the Bible. Read Matthew 13:10-17 for why that is. But I was translated into the kingdom of His dear Son, and I understand perfectly why Jesus taught that the one who speaks against the Holy Spirit does not have forgiveness, but that all other manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven. How can one who has received the witness of the Holy Spirit speak against this? This testimony is God's earnest. If one speaks against the Holy Spirit, it's rather a sign that such a one has not received the Spirit of Christ and is thus none of His (Romans 8:9). Hi and greetings, if you wouldn’t mind me interjecting with a question? When you say; ‘God revealed in to me personally’,,, personally I believe you, for I sense Christ in your writings.. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind sharing a bit of that experience and light, for I would love to hear of that experience and maybe see a bit into that light.. Not that I don’t believe in a permanent re-birth, just looking for a increase.. Whatever your comfortable with, thanks... (I have had a few experiences with God myself so I know how precious they are)... A fellow servant of His, Not me Edited January 30, 2021 by Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,657 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 6 hours ago, David1701 said: Salvation by Grace The deciding factor in your salvation, is the Lord working in you, by his grace, based on his accomplished work, on the cross. He who began a good work in you will continue it to the end. Salvation by Man's Will and Works He who began a good work in you merely wants to continue it to the end but you might thwart him, by your so-called sovereign free will. The deciding factor in your salvation is not the Lord's grace, but whether or not you maintain sufficient faithfulness. Which side are you on? Be honest. Don't play games by claiming that you believe that salvation is by God's grace, then deny it, by saying that you can thwart God's grace (meaning that the deciding factor is not the Lord's grace, but you). You seem to be twisting my words. I trust in God to save and keep me. Were I trusting in my own works I would be severed from grace. However, I am not a strong Calvinist. I do believe His grace can be resisted just as the Holy Spirit can be resisted and grieved. Act 7:51 "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted January 30, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 253 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Not me said: Hi and greetings, if you wouldn’t mind me interjecting with a question? When you say; ‘God revealed in to me personally’,,, personally I believe you, for I sense Christ in your writings.. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind sharing a bit of that experience and light, for I would love to hear of that experience and maybe see a bit into that light.. Not that I don’t believe in a permanent re-birth, just looking for a increase.. Whatever your comfortable with, thanks... (I have had a few experiences with God myself so I know how precious they are)... A fellow servant of His, Not me A pair of keys which I had kept on my keychain, which unlocked the drawer at my desk at work, disappeared. Just vanished. One day they were on my keychain, and the next they were totally gone from the keychain. When I believed--that is, that it is finished and salvation in Christ is permanent--after a rather sudden change of heart from being an atheist and a period of seeking God, it also occurred to me what the meaning of that was: that God has locked me away and I am His forever. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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