BobRyan Posted May 4, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sower said: This is and always has been an endless unfruitful discussion. Whereas some rest upon their ability/righteousness to hold on to God, I rest upon God's righteousness and ability to hold on to me. When I stand before Him, it will be because of what He did. Not I but Christ. I only believed. We can all position it anyway we like to favor any particular POV. The details I have been pointing to - are the details in scripture itself - where it appears to only work one way. Not both ways. In the Bible we have "Jesus is God" in John 1:1 and we have "the Father is greater than I am" John 14:28. Some camp out on John 14:28 to reject the Trinity - but the only way for John 1:1 and John 14:28 to both be true is that the Trinity doctrine is true. By just looking at one slice of the info and taking an "either-or" approach ignoring that which does not favor a POV - almost anything can be had. But taking "all the points" together then one larger picture is seen. Edited May 4, 2021 by BobRyan added comparison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 4, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2021 49 minutes ago, FrankIeCip said: Amen ?? Not always unfruitful though. We have no idea what can happen in anyone’s life. Maybe God uses our post. Maybe not. Only He can open eyes. We can’t. But yes I got you. Thank you bro. And every question that finds an answer is that much more understanding of the Word of God that one can have. John 14 "I am the way the Truth and the life" knowing more about the Truth is never a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 4, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2021 31 minutes ago, Alive said: The answer to the question is wrapped up primarily with an understanding of what happened in Christ's death, resurrection and ascension and the elects inclusion in those three real historical events. It is remarkably simply and wonderful. You died. You rose with a New Life You ascended in Christ to heaven and that is where you reside God the Father placed you 'In Christ' and what happened to Him also happened to you. You had zero power to place you there and you have zero power to remove yourself. Not even God can do that. Why? Because He is Faithful to Himself. Consider this. God IS Faithful to Himself. It is God who informs us that "He came to His OWN and His own received Him not" John 1:11 It is God who informs us "O Jerusalem... how I Wanted to spare your children.. but you would not" Matt 23 It is God who informs us that Jesus wept over Jerusalem "IF only you had known the time of your visition..." Luke 19:42 , even though "The Time is fulfilled" was Jesus' message in Mark 1 at the start of his ministry. It is God who informs us of His own lament in Is 5:4 when things have gone terribly wrong "what more could I have done than that which I have already done". It is God who says in 2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING for ANY to perish but for all to come to repentance" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted May 4, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 711 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 266 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2021 57 minutes ago, FrankIeCip said: Hi Bob. Just google common grace vs special grace. I don't know of any text that says the lost are "under grace" and "joined to Chris" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankIeCip Posted May 4, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 757 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 1,119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1978 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Sorry Bob. Can’t help you out. I tried. The others tried. Believe what you want and I will not reply again. I truly hope God gives you the eyes to see and you can find some peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted May 5, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,251 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,858 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2021 4 hours ago, BobRyan said: We can all position it anyway we like to favor any particular POV. The details I have been pointing to - are the details in scripture itself - where it appears to only work one way. Not both ways. In the Bible we have "Jesus is God" in John 1:1 and we have "the Father is greater than I am" John 14:28. Some camp out on John 14:28 to reject the Trinity - but the only way for John 1:1 and John 14:28 to both be true is that the Trinity doctrine is true. By just looking at one slice of the info and taking an "either-or" approach ignoring that which does not favor a POV - almost anything can be had. But taking "all the points" together then one larger picture is seen. My post you responded to had no scripture quoted, only my understanding of the applicable word. I appreciate your responses, Bob, and the time you took to post them. This subject is close to the top of most discussed on this forum. It actually doesn't matter to me who's right, really, it wouldn't change my walk/testimony. I assume you know why. My 'works/obedience' would not change. Having been raised thirty years in the RCC, and their view similar to yours, works to hopefully (maybe) be acceptable to enter the gate. But I heard a scripture. And I was saved, by grace through faith. Awesome! Amazing grace. He did it all. The difference of my having to maintain salvation in the RCC, and resting on the promises of the Father, my Abba, was so so opposite, the fear vs the assurance. The Father will wop me, chastise me, possibly kill me, to get/keep my act together. But He wont' ever leave me. I've got that scripture down. And my life was totally changed. A hundred fold! No comparison. Fear vs love. I don't keep the commandments to 'stay saved', and avoid perishing. But because God said, if I love Him, keep His commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted May 5, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2021 16 hours ago, enoob57 said: Cherry picking verses out of context enables anyone to make the Bible say anything... do the work ! Contextualize!!! That is exactly why those of us who do read scripture with understanding know that OSAS is unscriptural and false doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted May 5, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2021 14 hours ago, FrankIeCip said: You’re not understanding the difference between true believers and professing believers. The only difference between true believers and so-called professing believers is what happens on the day of the Lord when Christ Jesus returns to gather the wheat and to gather the tares. No one now can claim to be a true believer until Jesus himself declares such "Well done thou good and faithful servant. enter thou in ... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 5, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,192 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Waggles said: That is exactly why those of us who do read scripture with understanding know that OSAS is unscriptural and false doctrine. Please knowing the Scripture as I do results in knowing that nothing of this first created event and the works and the etc.. will be kept in memory... In the everlasting there will nothing of here~ there... so there will be no works remembered 'not any' fulfilling Titus 3:5-7 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. KJV The works are to be done here are profitable for men here and now but not unto God later for they will not be remembered... Titus 3:8 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. KJV but will not be remembered in the eternity as God has said.... Isa 65:17 17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. KJV 1 Cor 13:8-10 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. KJV Rev 21:1-4 21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. KJV Anyone claiming anything in this level of extinction into the eternal is in error ... because God's says so! Claiming works a must in forming eternal bonds with God is in error... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted May 5, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 5, 2021 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: Anyone claiming anything in this level of extinction into the eternal is in error ... because God's says so! Claiming works a must in forming eternal bonds with God is in error... The error is with the false doctrine of OSAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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