Rapture questions

[The Light]

On 2/16/2021 at 12:14 AM, WailingWall said:

ACTS 1  [9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, HE WAS TAKEN UP; AND A CLOUD RECEIVED HIM out of their sight. [10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; [11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same JESUS, WHICH IS TAKEN UP FROM YOU INTO HEAVEN, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Jesus was taken up in a cloud and will return in a cloud. Sure does look like Hes coming only once “in a cloud”.

REVELATION 1  [7] Behold, he cometh WITH CLOUDS; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of THE EARTH SHALL WAIL because of him. Even so, Amen.

When He returns in a cloud the earthlings are gonna wail. Why wail? Are they wailing because theyve been raptured to heaven? No way.

MARK 13  [24] But in those days, AFTER THAT TRIBULATION, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, [25] And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. [26] And then shall they see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS with great power and glory.

Jesus returns in the clouds AFTER the tribulation period......

ZEPHANIAH 1  [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, A DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness,

On the “Day of the Lord”

1 THESSALONIANS 4  [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For THE LORD HIMSELF SHALL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.

After we are caught up and meet Him in the clouds.......

DANIEL 7  [13] I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like THE SON OF MAN CAME WITH THE CLOUDS of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. [14] And there was given him dominion, and glory, AND A KINGDOM, THAT ALL PEOPLE, NATIONS, AND LANGUAGES, SHOULD SERVE HIM: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and HIS KINGDOM THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE DESTROYED.

Its off to the Kingdom {the 1000 yr period of rest}. 

AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD
 

I agree that after the tribulation the great day of the Lord will occur. That begins with the wrath of God. It is the twelve tribes across the earth, the second bride, that is caught up from the earth when the angels are sent to gather His elect from heaven and earth before the wrath begins.

What happens to the Church?

Luke 21

³⁶ Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The Church will be in heaven, BEFORE the tribulation, having escaped ALL THE THINGS, that will come to pass. They will escape the wars and rumors of wars, nations coming against nations, famines and pestilence and all the things of the tribulation. The Church will stand before the Son of Man. See Rev 4 and 5.

The Church will escape via the secret pretribulation rapture.

Edited February 27, 2021 by The Light

[WailingWall]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Wailing Wall, there are two brides. 

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. 

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also THE SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

One single event. Not 2 as you claim. Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.
 

[WailingWall]

3 hours ago, The Light said:

Wailing Wall, there are two brides. 

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

So if the bride is Israel as scripture points out, wheres that leave the gentiles?

MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ya see what Jesus said

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD and one fold {not 2 separate raptures}

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:  [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and  BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. Its then we will have but ONE SHEPHERD both Jew and gentile

 

[The Light]

10 hours ago, WailingWall said:

 

One single event. Not 2 as you claim. Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.
 

No, what you are saying is not possible as it would contradict the Word of God. When 1 Cor 15 occurs, that is the gathering when Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect from heaven and earth. When that happens, the wrath of God begins. There is no kingdom rest at this point. We can prove that by Rev 6 and Rev 14.

The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets, ask any Rabbi. The gathering from heaven and earth occurs, as where the body is, the eagles are gathered.

Mark 13 

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

This event occurs at the end of the tribulation, before the wrath of God as the 12 tribes across the earth are gathered from the earth and the Church is gathered from heaven.

The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened which is before the 70th week of Daniel and the tribulation.

[The Light]

10 hours ago, WailingWall said:

So if the bride is Israel as scripture points out, wheres that leave the gentiles?

MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ya see what Jesus said

Quote

 

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring....

 

Exactly my point.

Quote

 

Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD and one fold {not 2 separate raptures}

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:  [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 

 

You seem to confuse the prophesied gathering of Israel back to their land with the gathering from heaven and earth, where the Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth are gathered from the earth to the clouds. They will return to heaven immediately after the tribulation, when the wrath of God is upon the earth. The people in the physical land of Israel will remain on earth in a protected place during the wrath of God. 

Here we see the Church in heaven, told to rejoice, when the devil is cast down to the earth. So you saying that we are not going to heaven is clearly incorrect.

Rev 12

¹² Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

When the dragon is cast down, he goes after the people in the physical land of Israel. He cannot reach them as they flee to a place of protection that was prepared.

Rev 12

¹³ And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The dragon, not being able to reach the people in the nation of Israel then goes after HER SEED, which of course is the twelve tribes across the earth, who have now accepted Jesus as the Messiah as their blindness will be removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

Rev 12

¹⁷ And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So in the above verses, we see the Church in heaven rejoicing, we see the woman, the nation of Israel flee to a place of protection and we see the woman's seed, the twelve tribes across the earth, being pursued by the dragon.

 

10 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and  BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. Its then we will have but ONE SHEPHERD both Jew and gentile

 

We see the Church in heaven in Revelation 12:12. When the Lord returns and every will see Him, the Church will go with Him to the clouds as where the body is, the eagles will be gathered. During this gathering, the 12 tribes across the earth will be gathered from the earth after the tribulation. Both the Church and the 12 tribes across the earth will be in heaven during the wrath of God.

Rev 7

¹³ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Here we see the people in heaven rejoicing, proving beyond ANY doubt that what you are saying is incorrect.

Rev 19

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

[WailingWall]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

 

We see the Church in heaven in Revelation 12:12.

Revelation 12:12 (KJV) 
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 

And which heaven would that be?

2 CORINTHIANS 12  [1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. [2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one CAUGHT UP TO THE THIRD HEAVEN. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) [4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
 

[WailingWall]

I know which heaven we wont be going to

JOHN 7  [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there
 

[WailingWall]

25 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

I know which heaven we wont be going to

JOHN 7  [33] Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I GO UNTO HIM THAT SENT ME.[34] Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and WHERE I AM, THITHER YE CANNOT COME.

I go to Him that sent me. To the Father. Heaven. Jesus said we cant go there
 

If you dont believe what John 7 says

JOHN 3 [12] If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? [13] And NO MAN HATH ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN, BUT HE THAT CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Maybe youll believe John 3

[WailingWall]

I understand why people need to believe in a rapture. There afraid. Dont be afraid

JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. [15] I PRAY NOT THAT THOU SHOULDEST TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD, BUT THAT THOU SHOULDEST KEEP THEM FROM THE EVIL.

HE will keep you from the evil!

[The Light]

6 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Revelation 12:12 (KJV) 
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 

And which heaven would that be?

2 CORINTHIANS 12  [1] It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. [2] I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one CAUGHT UP TO THE THIRD HEAVEN. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) [4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
 

Which heaven? The one with the throne of God.

Rev 7

¹⁴ And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

¹⁵ Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.