Two Powers in Heaven. Pre-incarnate Yeshua (Jesus) in the Tanakh (OT)

[Justin Adams]

The Tanakh is not myth as some may think. Here are some clarifications by Dr. Heiser of the 'two powers'.

Two Powers in Heaven by Dr Michael S Heiser. https://drmsh.com/the-naked-bible/two-powers-in-heaven/

Introduction

Twenty-five years ago, rabbinical scholar Alan Segal produced what is still the major work on the idea of two powers in heaven in Jewish thought. Segal argued that the two powers idea was not deemed heretical in Jewish theology until the second century C.E. He carefully traced the roots of the teaching back into the Second Temple era (ca. 200 B.C.E.). Segal was able to establish that the idea’s antecedents were in the Hebrew Bible, specifically passages like Dan 7:9ff., Exo 23:20-23, and Exo 15:3. However, he was unable to discern any coherent religious framework from which these passages and others were conceptually derived. Persian dualism was unacceptable as an explanation since neither of the two powers in heaven were evil. Segal speculated that the divine warrior imagery of the broader ancient near east likely had some relationship.

In my dissertation (UW-Madison, 2004) I argued that Segal’s instincts were correct. My own work bridges the gap between his book and the Hebrew Bible understood in its Canaanite religious context. I suggest that the “original model” for the two powers idea was the role of the vice-regent of the divine council. The paradigm of a high sovereign God (El) who rules heaven and earth through the agency of a second, appointed god (Baal) became part of Israelite religion, albeit with some modification. For the orthodox Israelite, Yahweh was both sovereign and vice regent—occupying both “slots” as it were at the head of the divine council. The binitarian portrayal of Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible was motivated by this belief. The ancient Israelite knew two Yahwehs—one invisible, a spirit, the other visible, often in human form.  The two Yahwehs at times appear together in the text, at times being distinguished, at other times not.

Early Judaism understood this portrayal and its rationale. There was no sense of a violation of monotheism since either figure was indeed Yahweh. There was no second distinct god running the affairs of the cosmos. During the Second Temple period, Jewish theologians and writers speculated on an identity for the second Yahweh. Guesses ranged from divinized humans from the stories of the Hebrew Bible to exalted angels. These speculations were not considered unorthodox. That acceptance changed when certain Jews, the early Christians, connected Jesus with this orthodox Jewish idea. This explains why these Jews, the first converts to following Jesus the Christ, could simultaneously worship the God of Israel and Jesus, and yet refuse to acknowledge any other god. Jesus was the incarnate second Yahweh. In response, as Segal’s work demonstrated, Judaism pronounced the two powers teaching a heresy sometime in the second century A.D.

Recommended Reading

The following items are important works with respect to the Jewish background of the exalted Christology of New Testament theology — Jesus as the second Yahweh, the second Power in heaven. Their inclusion here does not speak to a complete endorsement of their content.

Barker, Margaret. The Great Angel: A Study of Israel’s Second God. Louisville, KY: Westminster / John Knox Publishers, 1992

Bauckham, Richard, “The Throne of God and the Worship of Jesus” Pages 43-69 in The Jewish Roots of Christological Monotheism: Papers from the St. Andrews Conference on the Historical Origins of the Worship of Jesus. Edited by C. Newman, J. Davila, and G. Lewis. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1999

Bauckham, Richard, God Crucified: Monotheism & Christology in the New Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1998

Boyarin, Daniel. “The Gospel of the Memra: Jewish Binitarianism and the Prologue to John,” Harvard Theological Review 94:3 (July, 2001), 243-284

Boyarin, Daniel, “Two Powers in Heaven; or, The Making of a Heresy,” Pages 331-370 in The Idea of Biblical Interpretation: Essays in Honor of James L. Kugel. Leiden: Brill, 2003

Fossum, Jarl E. The Image of the Invisible God: Essays on the Influence of Jewish Mysticism on Early Christology. Göttingen: Vandenhoeck and Ruprecht, 1995

Gathercole, Simon. The Pre-Existent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2006

Hannah, Darrell D. Michael and Christ: Michael Traditions and Angel Christology in Early Christianity. Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament 109. Tübingen: Mohr-Siebeck, 1999

Hurtado, Larry W. “What Do We Mean by ‘First-Century Jewish Monotheism’?” Pages 348-368 in Society of Biblical Literature 1993 Seminar Papers. Edited by E. H. Lovering Jr. Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1993

Hurtado, Larry W. One God, One Lord: Early Christian Devotion and Ancient Jewish Monotheism. Philadelphia: Fortress, 1988

Hurtado, Larry W. Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2003

Hurtado, Larry W. “First-Century Jewish Monotheism.” Journal for the Study of the New Testament 71 (1998): 3-26

Hurtado, Larry W. “Jesus’ Divine Sonship in Paul’s Epistle to the Romans,” Pages 217-233 in Romans and the People of God. Edited by N. T. Wright and S. Soderlund. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1999

Hurtado, Larry W. “The Binitarian Shape of Early Christian Worship.” Pages 187-213 in The Jewish Roots of Christological Monotheism, Papers from the St. Andrews Conference on the Historical Origins of the Worship of Jesus. Edited by Carey C. Newman, James R. Davila and Gladys S. Lewis, Supplements to the Journal for the Study of Judaism, ed. John J. Collins. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1999

Hurtado, Larry W. How on Earth Did Jesus Become a God?: Historical Questions about Earliest Devotion to Jesus. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2005

Lee, Aquila H. I. From Messiah to Pre-existent Son. Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament 192. Tübingen: Mohr-Siebeck, 2005; reprinted Wipf and Stock, 2009

Segal, Alan F. Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1977

VIDEO Presentation

Dr. Heiser on the Two Powers (May 2013): 1 hr., 21 min.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Duck]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

The Tanakh is not myth as some may think. Here are some clarifications by Dr. Heiser of the 'two powers'.

Two Powers in Heaven by Dr Michael S Heiser. https://drmsh.com/the-naked-bible/two-powers-in-heaven/

Introduction

Twenty-five years ago, rabbinical scholar Alan Segal produced what is still the major work on the idea of two powers in heaven in Jewish thought. Segal argued that the two powers idea was not deemed heretical in Jewish theology until the second century C.E. He carefully traced the roots of the teaching back into the Second Temple era (ca. 200 B.C.E.). Segal was able to establish that the idea’s antecedents were in the Hebrew Bible, specifically passages like Dan 7:9ff., Exo 23:20-23, and Exo 15:3. However, he was unable to discern any coherent religious framework from which these passages and others were conceptually derived. Persian dualism was unacceptable as an explanation since neither of the two powers in heaven were evil. Segal speculated that the divine warrior imagery of the broader ancient near east likely had some relationship.

In my dissertation (UW-Madison, 2004) I argued that Segal’s instincts were correct. My own work bridges the gap between his book and the Hebrew Bible understood in its Canaanite religious context. I suggest that the “original model” for the two powers idea was the role of the vice-regent of the divine council. The paradigm of a high sovereign God (El) who rules heaven and earth through the agency of a second, appointed god (Baal) became part of Israelite religion, albeit with some modification. For the orthodox Israelite, Yahweh was both sovereign and vice regent—occupying both “slots” as it were at the head of the divine council. The binitarian portrayal of Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible was motivated by this belief. The ancient Israelite knew two Yahwehs—one invisible, a spirit, the other visible, often in human form.  The two Yahwehs at times appear together in the text, at times being distinguished, at other times not.

Early Judaism understood this portrayal and its rationale. There was no sense of a violation of monotheism since either figure was indeed Yahweh. There was no second distinct god running the affairs of the cosmos. During the Second Temple period, Jewish theologians and writers speculated on an identity for the second Yahweh. Guesses ranged from divinized humans from the stories of the Hebrew Bible to exalted angels. These speculations were not considered unorthodox. That acceptance changed when certain Jews, the early Christians, connected Jesus with this orthodox Jewish idea. This explains why these Jews, the first converts to following Jesus the Christ, could simultaneously worship the God of Israel and Jesus, and yet refuse to acknowledge any other god. Jesus was the incarnate second Yahweh. In response, as Segal’s work demonstrated, Judaism pronounced the two powers teaching a heresy sometime in the second century A.D.

Recommended Reading

The following items are important works with respect to the Jewish background of the exalted Christology of New Testament theology — Jesus as the second Yahweh, the second Power in heaven. Their inclusion here does not speak to a complete endorsement of their content.

Barker, Margaret. The Great Angel: A Study of Israel’s Second God. Louisville, KY: Westminster / John Knox Publishers, 1992

Bauckham, Richard, “The Throne of God and the Worship of Jesus” Pages 43-69 in The Jewish Roots of Christological Monotheism: Papers from the St. Andrews Conference on the Historical Origins of the Worship of Jesus. Edited by C. Newman, J. Davila, and G. Lewis. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1999

Bauckham, Richard, God Crucified: Monotheism & Christology in the New Testament. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1998

Boyarin, Daniel. “The Gospel of the Memra: Jewish Binitarianism and the Prologue to John,” Harvard Theological Review 94:3 (July, 2001), 243-284

Boyarin, Daniel, “Two Powers in Heaven; or, The Making of a Heresy,” Pages 331-370 in The Idea of Biblical Interpretation: Essays in Honor of James L. Kugel. Leiden: Brill, 2003

Fossum, Jarl E. The Image of the Invisible God: Essays on the Influence of Jewish Mysticism on Early Christology. Göttingen: Vandenhoeck and Ruprecht, 1995

Gathercole, Simon. The Pre-Existent Son: Recovering the Christologies of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2006

Hannah, Darrell D. Michael and Christ: Michael Traditions and Angel Christology in Early Christianity. Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament 109. Tübingen: Mohr-Siebeck, 1999

Hurtado, Larry W. “What Do We Mean by ‘First-Century Jewish Monotheism’?” Pages 348-368 in Society of Biblical Literature 1993 Seminar Papers. Edited by E. H. Lovering Jr. Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1993

Hurtado, Larry W. One God, One Lord: Early Christian Devotion and Ancient Jewish Monotheism. Philadelphia: Fortress, 1988

Hurtado, Larry W. Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2003

Hurtado, Larry W. “First-Century Jewish Monotheism.” Journal for the Study of the New Testament 71 (1998): 3-26

Hurtado, Larry W. “Jesus’ Divine Sonship in Paul’s Epistle to the Romans,” Pages 217-233 in Romans and the People of God. Edited by N. T. Wright and S. Soderlund. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1999

Hurtado, Larry W. “The Binitarian Shape of Early Christian Worship.” Pages 187-213 in The Jewish Roots of Christological Monotheism, Papers from the St. Andrews Conference on the Historical Origins of the Worship of Jesus. Edited by Carey C. Newman, James R. Davila and Gladys S. Lewis, Supplements to the Journal for the Study of Judaism, ed. John J. Collins. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1999

Hurtado, Larry W. How on Earth Did Jesus Become a God?: Historical Questions about Earliest Devotion to Jesus. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2005

Lee, Aquila H. I. From Messiah to Pre-existent Son. Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament 192. Tübingen: Mohr-Siebeck, 2005; reprinted Wipf and Stock, 2009

Segal, Alan F. Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism. Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1977

VIDEO Presentation

Dr. Heiser on the Two Powers (May 2013): 1 hr., 21 min.

This is all very deep for my little mind, but will try to get my head around it...I do remember being ‘blown away’ when our lecturer taught us that Elohim in Genesis was/is plural. 

I believe that every O/T Theophany was Jesus :)

Btw, do you have any opinion on the Talmud, or is that changing the topic too much at the mo? :)

[Justin Adams]

17 minutes ago, Duck said:

This is all very deep for my little mind, but will try to get my head around it...I do remember being ‘blown away’ when our lecturer taught us that Elohim in Genesis was/is plural. 

I believe that every O/T Theophany was Jesus

Btw, do you have any opinion on the Talmud, or is that changing the topic too much at the mo?

The Talmud is a kind of commentary on Israeli Law and community religious beliefs. Some is OK I guess.
I have not studied it much.

"Although Talmud is largely about law, it should not be confused with either codes of law or with a commentary on the legal sections of the Torah . Due to its spare and laconic style, the Talmud is studied, not read. The difficulty of the intergenerational text has necessitated and fostered the development of an institutional and communal structure that supported the learning of Talmud and the establishment of special schools where each generation is apprenticed into its study by the previous generation."

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/talmud-101/

[Justin Adams]

25 minutes ago, Duck said:

This is all very deep for my little mind, but will try to get my head around it...I do remember being ‘blown away’ when our lecturer taught us that Elohim in Genesis was/is plural. 

Read or watch Dr Heiser's, "Unseen Realm". He makes peer review scholarship easier to grasp. Otherwise your mind may turn to glue.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Justin Adams

[LearningToLetGo]

On 2/21/2021 at 4:13 AM, Justin Adams said:

Read or watch Dr Heiser's, "Unseen Realm". He makes peer review scholarship easier to grasp. Otherwise your mind may turn to glue.

I'm half way through that book and my mind is already feeling a bit wobbly.

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, Josheb said:

As far as Tanakh goes, the Jews reject the gospels and epistolary as Tanakh. 

That is why after the second century that "two powers" theology was declared a heresy by the various Rabbinic authorities and theologies.

Twenty-five years ago, rabbinical scholar Alan Segal produced what is still the major work on the idea of two powers in heaven in Jewish thought. Segal argued that the two powers idea was not deemed heretical in Jewish theology until the second century C.E

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Justin Adams]

14 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I'm curious about the idea Tanakh is myth

I do not think the Tanakh is a myth. Not at all.

I do see how often the writers (tongue in cheek) re quote some of the current Mesopotamia and Canaanite material. It is used as a polemic, such as the Baal cycle in one of the Psalms. I do not hold to the modern stuff I think you are talking about. It is good to study second temple material to grasp the worldview Yeshua and his followers would have known about and may even quote from time to time.

I do not know about a 'New Paul' or the Sanders stuff. Neither do I know of the Jesus Seminar stuff. Perhaps you should inform us all especially if it is wrong headed.

[Justin Adams]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

far removed from historic Christianity

Good info. Thanks.

Fortunately, my 'fruit-cake' meter seems to serve me well. I do see from time to time some of the stuff you mentioned surfaces here. It would be kind of you to do a blow by blow account of those worth listening to from a 'new believer perspective' and those to avoid.

There is way to much newbie nonsense surfacing today and I think new Christians do not get any of the teachings of warnings you mentioned in their churches. Perhaps they might perish from lack of knowledge - the good kind.

As Ravi used to say: LET MY PEOPLE THINK...

[Justin Adams]

8 minutes ago, Josheb said:

My point is to commend the practice of understanding Jewish "roots" and other cultural influences of the gospel era but to do so with caution.

Peer review scholarship can be brutal at times. One needs to take care and tend to ignore titles except as a measure of the ability and desire to study deeply. The 'roots' stuff often goes way too far in my mind.

I find that the Hebrew penchant for missing the wood for the trees was an expected outcome of our Lord Yeshua's designs. He built the structure that would later become an integral part of 'the hardening'. It was not a surprise to Him, although saddened by it, it was part of the plan that He willingly enacted. The Godhead designed all this from before the very beginnings.