40,000 years of history? Man before Adam?

[johnthebaptist]

22 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

For something to be symbolic the literal must first exist.

Question 1: If Adam and Eve are just symbolic and not literal at what point in the Biblical genealogies which include Adam do the others named become literal?

Question 2: If Adam is a just metaphor for man and not literal, is the son he begat in his likeness also just a metaphor and not literal?

Gen 5:1-3  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;  (2)  Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.  (3)  And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
 

Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Question 1: Would it be a problem if it was all symbolic, beginning to end?

[Waggles]

GENESIS ONE
The creation of the world

1: Day one The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
the first day is LIGHT and darkness - this is spiritual light not physical light (the presence of God [Jesus] in space and time. 

2: Day two > “sky” or "the heavens" - [Let there be a firmament, an expansion, so the Hebrew word signifies, like a sheet spread, or a curtain drawn out. This includes all that is visible above the earth between it and the third heavens: the air]
The second day waters are separated as being below the sky allowing the atmosphere to be above the waters that cover the entire planet. 

3: Day three > Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.
And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 
Land comes up out of the waters and new life flourishes ( a type of baptism here?) note also that plant life flourished but as yet our Sun has not yet been created. 

4: Day four > And God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars. 

MADE > H6213  עָשָׂה  ‛âśâh
A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application: - accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth [not to create out of nothing but to make from stuff that already exists] Did the rest of the universe already exist from verse 1 and perhaps just our solar system is made for us? The word for stars - H3556 - could mean the planets.

Day 5 > So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.

Day 6 > “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds - livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” > And God made the beasts of the earth [note that God does not create beasts and animals but rather that he makes them from pre-existing matter; the earth]. As opposed to the following:
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Here we are informed that God created men and women at the same time. 

CREATED > H1254  בָּרָא  bârâ'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
Total KJV occurrences: 54 > this is important because it is not the word used in regard to Adam and then Eve in Genesis 2.

Note also that the first and second days were periods of time before the making of the Sun and Moon to let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.
DAY > H3117 יוֹם  yôm
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
Total KJV occurrences: 2295

Edited February 22, 2021 by Waggles

[johnthebaptist]

23 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

For something to be symbolic the literal must first exist.

Question 1: If Adam and Eve are just symbolic and not literal at what point in the Biblical genealogies which include Adam do the others named become literal?

Question 2: If Adam is a just metaphor for man and not literal, is the son he begat in his likeness also just a metaphor and not literal?

Gen 5:1-3  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;  (2)  Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.  (3)  And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
 

Luk 3:38  Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Question 2: Off the top of my head, it would seem to me that if Adam is just a metaphor for man, and not literal, his son would likely be part of that metaphor. Keep in mind I haven't taken sides.

[Michael37]

31 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

Question 1: Would it be a problem if it was all symbolic, beginning to end?

 

28 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

Question 2: Off the top of my head, it would seem to me that if Adam is just a metaphor for man, and not literal, his son would likely be part of that metaphor. Keep in mind I haven't taken sides.

Seriously? 

You do know the genealogies link Adam & Christ???

[BeyondET]

29 minutes ago, Waggles said:

GENESIS ONE
The creation of the world

1: Day one The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
the first day is LIGHT and darkness - this is spiritual light not physical light (the presence of God [Jesus] in space and time. 

2: Day two > “sky” or "the heavens" - [Let there be a firmament, an expansion, so the Hebrew word signifies, like a sheet spread, or a curtain drawn out. This includes all that is visible above the earth between it and the third heavens: the air]
The second day waters are separated as being below the sky allowing the atmosphere to be above the waters that cover the entire planet. 

3: Day three > Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.
And God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth.” And it was so. 
Land comes up out of the waters and new life flourishes ( a type of baptism here?) note also that plant life flourished but as yet our Sun has not yet been created. 

4: Day four > And God made the two great lights - the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night - and the stars. 

MADE > H6213  עָשָׂה  ‛âśâh
A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application: - accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth [not to create out of nothing but to make from stuff that already exists] Did the rest of the universe already exist from verse 1 and perhaps just our solar system is made for us? The word for stars - H3556 - could mean the planets.

Day 5 > So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.

Day 6 > “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds - livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” > And God made the beasts of the earth [note that God does not create beasts and animals but rather that he makes them from pre-existing matter; the earth]. As opposed to the following:
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Here we are informed that God created men and women at the same time. 

CREATED > H1254  בָּרָא  bârâ'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
Total KJV occurrences: 54 > this is important because it is not the word used in regard to Adam and then Eve in Genesis 2.

Note also that the first and second days were periods of time before the making of the Sun and Moon to let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.
DAY > H3117 יוֹם  yôm
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
Total KJV occurrences: 2295

I enjoyed the read, my thoughts three things can be happening at once. the first couple of days formation of the galaxy and the four separate spiral arms, the formation of the solar system, the formation of earth . There are stars that are presumed as old as the universe within the Milky Way galaxy.

you mentioned sunrise and sunset, evening and morning in ancient times that time of a day was sort of allusive the period when there is light but no visual sun to cast a shadow it’s about 17 minutes each sunrise/sunset. why I mentioned that is I think evening n morning is a statement about the day a period that is in God’s day when He created the earth and heavens as mentioned in Genesis 2. which doesn’t mentions in the days 

Genesis 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

[Waggles]

GENESIS TWO
Adam is formed from the earth on the eighth "day" 

Genesis 21:4  And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac when he was eight days old, as God had commanded him.

1Peter 3:20  because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

Genesis 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 
2  And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 
3  So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. 
Here God has completed the creation - all of his work. Then afterwards God does something new, something else after his rest; because it was required to do so in response to another rebellion.

Genesis 2:5  When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, 
6  and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground -
7  then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. 
8  And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 
FORMED > H3335  יָצַר  yâtsar 
probably identical with H3334 (through the squeezing into shape); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively to determine (that is, form a resolution): -    X earthen, fashion, form, frame, make (-r), potter, purpose.
Total KJV occurrences: 62

Note that this is not the same word used in Genesis 1:27 - H1254 - also one man is formed and there is no woman as yet. But in Genesis 1:27 God created males and females and spoke to them. 
Adam and then Eve were formed from existing materials as opposed to being created as in Genesis 1.

Adam is the first man required to begin God's plan for our salvation, for already the rebellion in the heavenly realms by angels had occurred. You know who visits Adam and Eve in the garden. 
Ezekiel 28:12  “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord GOD: “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 
13  You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 
14  You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 
15  You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. 

Adam was formed and separated from other humans in the world and place in a prepared location named Eden - to set aside an allotment of land - that would always be reserved for God and his purpose as distinct from the rest of the world being subjugated to the rule of fallen, rebellious angels. 

Deu 32:8  When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. [gods, angels, etc.]
9  But the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.  The garden of Eden > Canaan > promised to Jacob through Abraham > Israel - set aside as a holy nation. 

We can go on and write about how Adam and Eve being placed in a garden is a type representing Christian disciples being called out of the world, not conforming to this world. 

The rest of chapter two concerning Adam and Eve really is the story of us, spiritual death, alienated from God, not able to return to Eden. And eventually through Jesus Christ redemption and reconciled to God, a way back to Eden, spiritual life, rivers of living water, eating again from the Tree of Life.

Rev 22:2  In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

[BeyondET]

 how long did Adam and Eve spend in the garden before the miss hap, was it 3 years 30 years thousands or millions

Edited February 22, 2021 by BeyondET

[Waggles]

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
Romans 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 
13  For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 
14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 

My understanding is that Adam brought in spiritual death not physical death. Although Adam and Eve had access to the tree of life in the garden this does not mean that the rest of humankind had such access. We can find the burials of pre-Adamic peoples often containing simple possessions like shells, a bow or jewellery. 

Ezekiel 18:4  Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

The first Adam to the second Adam is about the spiritual - about the problem of sin and spiritual death :

Romans 5:17  For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 
18  Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 
19  For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. 

Now our souls can live and we can enter the eternities - like as to Adam and Eve, before the fall, were meant to live forever eating from the tree of life. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Waggles

[johnthebaptist]

36 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

 

Seriously? 

You do know the genealogies link Adam & Christ???

I think someone asked why God would trick us by saying he had created the world at such and such a time, when really the world was billions of years old. But I might counter by saying, "Why would the Lord 'trick us' by creating a world that scientically appears to be billions of years old, when in fact, the Lord created it just a few thousand years ago?"

I don't know if the creation story is literal or symbolic. I am just showing you the case for symbolism.

I am aware of the genealogies.

[BeyondET]

23 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

I think someone asked why God would trick us by saying he had created the world at such and such a time, when really the world was billions of years old. But I might counter by saying, "Why would the Lord 'trick us' by creating a world that scientically appears to be billions of years old, when in fact, the Lord created it just a few thousand years ago?"

I don't know if the creation story is literal or symbolic. I am just showing you the case for symbolism.

I am aware of the genealogies.

That’s interesting what you said, I don’t recall the Bible directly mentioning a time when the earth being created.

the theory is based off of man counting generations, which even that I haven’t recalled the Bible saying to do so and the theory will be correct on the age of the earth and stars, universe etc.

Edited February 22, 2021 by BeyondET