Justified by Faith vs. Works or Faith and Works

[Jedi4Yahweh]

4 hours ago, Brother Duke said:

We are not saved by works but those that are saved will follow God's instructions.

Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

Who among us when we have the Holy Spirit dwell in us fully would then deny those instructions from the very spirit of God?

Amen...That's what being born again truly means that Jesus spoke of in John 3.  Its God putting his Spirit and his Laws within you so that you walk in them. This ties into what Jeremey said about the New Covenant that was to come through Messiah.

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. - Jer 31:31-34 KJV

[mailmandan]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

2 hours ago, mailmandan said:

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

I don't think anybody is saying works save.  What James is saying true faith has evidence in the form of works.  He gave examples such as Abraham proved his faith by the things he did. James said faith and works work hand in hand and faith that does not have work is not real faith at all.  For example if I woke you up in the middle of the night and told you that your house is on fire that you need to get up and get your family out or your going to die, and you said, "Ok I believe you",  but then you get back in the bed and go back to sleep.  Did you really believe?  No, because if you really believed me, you would have did what I said.  True faith produces works.

[steve morrow]

DOES  NOT  OBEDIENCE  REQUIRE  WORKS

DO  WE  AGAIN  HAVE  PEOPLE  ATTEMPTING  TO  MAKE  JESUS  CHRIST  A  LIAR

 

ROMANS 6:16  KNOW  YOU  NOT  THAT  TO  WHOM  YOU  YIELD  YOURSELVES  SERVANTS  TO  OBEY  HIS  SERVANTS  YOU  ARE  TO  WHOM  YOU  OBEY  WHETHER  OF  SIN  UNTO  DEATH  OR  OF  OBEDIENCE  UNTO  RIGHTEOUSNESS 

 

PROVERBS 11:6  THE  RIGHTEOUSNESS  OF  THE  UPRIGHT  SHALL  DELIVER  THEM  BUT  THE  TRANSGRESSORS  SHALL  BE  TAKEN  IN  THEIR  OWN  NAUGHTINESS 

 

ACTS 28:27  FOR  THE  HEART  OF  THIS  PEOPLE  IS  WAXED  GROSS  AND  THEIR  EARS  ARE  DULL  OF  HEARING  AND  THEIR  EYES  HAVE  THEY  CLOSED  LEST  THEY  SHOULD  SEE  WITH  THEIR  EYES  AND  UNDERSTAND  WITH  THEIR  HEART  AND  SHOULD  BE  CONVERTED  AND  I  SHOULD  HEAL  THEM

 

HEBREWS 5:9  AND  BEING  MADE  PERFECT  HE  BECAME  THE  AUTHOR  OF  ETERNAL  SALVATION  UNTO  ALL  THEM  THAT  --- OBEY  HIM ---

 

EPHESIANS 5:6  let no man --DECEIVE  YOU--  with vain words for because of these things cometh the wrath of  GOD  upon the children of disobedience

COLOSSIANS 3:6  for which things sake the wrath of  GOD  cometh on the ---CHILDREN  OF  DISOBEDIENCE---

1 PETER 4:17  for the time is come that judgement must begin at the house of  GOD  and if it first begin at us what shall the end be of them ----THAT  OBEY  NOT  THE  GOSPEL  OF  GOD----

2 THESSALONIANS 1:7 and to you who are troubled rest with us when  THE  LORD  JESUS  shall be revealed from heaven with  HIS  mighty angels 

--1:8-- in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that ---KNOW  NOT  GOD  AND  THAT  --OBEY  NOT--  THE  GOSPEL  OF  OUR  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST---

 

*******PROVERBS  21:30  THERE  IS  NO  WISDOM  NOR  UNDERSTANDING  NOR  COUNSEL  AGAINST  THE  LORD*******

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

[mailmandan]

1 hour ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

I don't think anybody is saying works save.  What James is saying true faith has evidence in the form of works.  He gave examples such as Abraham proved his faith by the things he did. James said faith and works work hand in hand and faith that does not have work is not real faith at all.  For example if I woke you up in the middle of the night and told you that your house is on fire that you need to get up and get your family out or your going to die, and you said, "Ok I believe you",  but then you get back in the bed and go back to sleep.  Did you really believe?  No, because if you really believed me, you would have did what I said.  True faith produces works.

Yes. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony* 

[debrakay]

In Matthew 10 the Lord Jesus explains His plans for witnessing to the world's people. It's the heart of each person He looks at first.  The rest of the mind, body and spirit will want to serve the Lord in every way possible once the heart is on fire for Him.  I move at the nudge of the Holy Spirit when it comes to whom He would have me witness to.  I try to be obedient each time but sometimes I lack the faith.  He does not love me less when I fail but encourages me to keep moving forward in the race to save the lost. As Christians we tend to get hung up on everything but the main thing.  To seek and save the lost.  Christian human begins can discuss and argue about everything written but if there is no fruit showing from the lives of those who call themselves Christ Followers that tree is barren.  You can find scripture that talks of the barren tree.

[steve morrow]

WHO  IS  IT  THAT  IS  A  SERVANT  OF  CHRIST

DO  NOT  SERVANTS  DO  THE  WORK  OF  FAITH 

2 THESSALONIANS 1:11  wherefore also we pray always for you that our  GOD  would count you worthy of this calling and fulfil all the good pleasure of  HIS  goodness and ---THE  WORK  OF  FAITH  WITH  POWER---

MARK 8:35  for whosoever will --SAVE  HIS  LIFE-- shall lose it but whosoever shall lose his life ---FOR  MY  SAKE  AND  THE  GOSPELS--- the same shall save it 

JAMES 3:17  but the wisdom that is  --FROM  ABOVE-- is first pure then peaceable gentle and easy to be intreated full of mercy ---AND  GOOD  FRUITS--- without partiality and without hypocrisy 

 

MARK 13:34  FOR  THE  SON  OF  MAN  IS  AS  A  MAN  TAKING  A  FAR  JOURNEY  WHO  LEFT  HIS  HOUSE  AND  GAVE  AUTHORITY  TO  HIS  ---SERVANTS--- AND  TO  EVERY  MAN  ---HIS  WORK--- AND  COMMANDED  THE  PORTER  TO  WATCH

ROMANS 16:6  KNOW  YOU  NOT  THAT  TO  WHOM  YOU  YIELD  YOURSELVES ---SERVANTS  TO  OBEY---HIS  SERVANTS  YOU  ARE  TO  WHOM  YOU  OBEY  WHETHER  OF  SIN  UNTO  DEATH  OR  OF  ---OBEDIENCE---  UNTO  RIGHTEOUSNESS

ROMANS 6:22  BUT  NOW  BEING  MADE  FREE  FROM  SIN  AND  BECOME  --- SERVANTS  TO  GOD  --- YOU  HAVE  YOUR  FRUIT  UNTO  HOLINESS ---

HEBREWS 12:14  FOLLOW  PEACE  WITH  ALL  MEN  AND  --HOLINESS--  WITHOUT  WHICH  --NO  MAN--  SHALL  SEE  THE  LORD

 

JEREMIAH 23:9  mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets all my bones shake I am like a drunken man and like a man whom wine hath overcome because of  THE  LORD  and because of the ---WORDS  OF  HIS  HOLINESS---

PROVERBS 8:8  all the words of  MY   MOUTH  ARE  IN  RIGHTEOUSNESS  there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

 

LUKE 1:71  that we should be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all that hate us   --1:72--  to perform the mercy promised to our fathers and to remember  HIS  holy covenant  --1:73--  the oath which  HE  sware to our father abraham

 

--1:74--  THAT  HE  WOULD  GRANT  UNTO  US  THAT  WE  BEING  ---DELIVERED---  OUT  OF  THE  HAND  OF  OUR  ENEMIES  MIGHT  ---SERVE  HIM--- WITHOUT  FEAR 

--1:75--  IN  HOLINESS  AND  RIGHTEOUSNESS  BEFORE  HIM  ALL  THE  DAYS  OF  OUR  LIFE 

PROVERBS 11:4  RICHES  PROFIT  NOT  IN  THE  DAY  OF  WRATH  BUT  RIGHTEOUSNESS  DELIVERETH  FROM  DEATH  

 

PROVERBS  8:20  I  LEAD  IN  THE  WAY  OF  RIGHTEOUSNESS  IN  THE  MIDST  OF  THE  PATHS  OF  JUDGEMENT

 

GALATIANS 1:10  FOR  DO  I  NOW  --PERSUADE--  MEN  OR  GOD  OR  DO  I  SEEK  TO  PLEASE  MEN  FOR  IF  I  YET  PLEASED  MEN  ---I  SHOULD  NOT  BE  THE  SERVANT  OF  CHRIST   

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST