Proper Boundaries With new Pastor...

[bornagain2011]

This is really embarassing to post about this, escpecially since the reason we left our last church in November was because of an emotional affair starting to slowly develop on my part with another member there. We felt like in order to save our marriage we needed to leave that church and I also was felt led to leave my job because the man I had feelings for was always hovering outside of my workplace (long long story).

So, we started going to this new church, and it has been so amazing! Everything we had wanted. The Pastor's preaching is on point and Gospel focused, the youth group is amazing and the kids are learning so much! We quickly made friends with about 6 other married couples including Pastor and his wife who are also in their 30's like us, their kids are good friends with our kids. This church has been such a blessing for us.

My problem now is that I don't think I had proper boundaries with the Pastor in the beginning, and now I need to reel it back in. He is a very friendly guy who loves to laugh, joke, and talk a lot. He is never innapropriate, but him and I have gotten into some deep discussions around science, politics, etc. It's not flirty by any standards, but aparently it has bonded us a bit. 

I never had a pastor that would actually come talk to us, so I assumed that boundaries with pastors are slightly looser than with any other man because they are like counselors in a way. My husband told me early on that I needed to be careful with Pastor because he can see that Pastor has an attraction to me, I saw it as well, but because I definitely did  NOT have any attraction towards him I had my guard down (dumb idea). 

And then about 2 weeks ago an "incident" happened, I was at church cleaning the nursery and talking to a female friend downstairs, her husband was supposed to talk to Pastor for a bit, but when I went upstairs to put some keys away Pastor started talking to me, my friend's husband went downstairs to let Pastor talk to me, I didn't want to talk to Pastor because I wasn't comfortable with that idea of us being upstairs by ourselves, but he said he had questions for my husband and I, and I remembered the camera that is always recording, so I sat and talked to him. We talked for a long time, too long. I can't blame it all on him, I shouldv'e said I needed to go, at one point I got up and started to leave, but he kept talking and asking more questions. We mostly talked about ministry, but I did talk aout my marriage a little  . I know better now. My friend's husband came back upstairs to say goodbye to Pastor, and I apologized that they didn't get to talk. And also at one point Pastor's wife called him, he looked down at his phone and swiped the call away. 

I came home and told my husband about all of this, and I had no idea at the time but Pastor's wife was also giving him the same talk my husband was giving me, that even if it was innocent it wouldv'e looked innappropriate. I talked to his wife about it and apologized, she told me what she told him, but he told her there was a camera (that's also what he told me during our long talk).

My husband and Pastor went on a camping trip with our sons for a few days, they had a chance to talk about some things. My husband told him that he needs to be careful because women become attatched when you give them attention, Pastor responded along the lines of "I leave that up to God" or something, like he does not take any responsibility for what a woman might think or feel, sort of like if a woman dresses revealing and a man stumbles from it and she says " his reaction is not my responsiblity". 

When my husband came back from their trip, he layed down some NEW boundaries, newer than the ones after my long talk with Pastor. So now when Pastor comes up to me and tries to talk to me I am supposed to keep it short and to the point. I think he knows I am not supposed to talk to him a whole lot anymore, so it surprised my husband and I when he came up to me on wednesday to show me the pictures he took while on the trip with my husband. So, he is still being friendly and not fully avoiding me, which I don't think he will because ... he is a pastor. And I don't know if it would be fair to tell our pastor to no longer talk to me anymore.

This is the first time I have seen my husband this jelous, usually he couldn't care less, even when I was emotionally entangled with the previous guy, it was MY decision to leave the last church and to leave my job. Whatever Pastor and him talked about on their trip seemed to have an effect on my husband because now he is way more protective. 

After my long 2 hour conversation with Pastor, I realized my boundaries with him were WAY out of wack, and that he is not a counselor, and that I needed to have the same boundaries that I do with other men, but now after their trip it is even stricter.

What boundaries are acceptable between a woman and a Pastor? 

Sorry this is so long, I think Satan is trying to turn this blessing of a church into a curse. I don't believe Pastor has any ill intentions, but I do believe he struggles with his eyes (I catch him looking at me a lot). I won't allow the enemy to take me back to where I was before.

[Who me]

1 hour ago, bornagain2011 said:

What boundaries are acceptable between a woman and a Pastor?

Exactly the same as between a woman and a man she is not married to, or for a man towards a woman he is not married to.

 

 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, bornagain2011 said:

This is really embarassing to post about this, escpecially since the reason we left our last church in November was because of an emotional affair starting to slowly develop on my part with another member there. We felt like in order to save our marriage we needed to leave that church and I also was felt led to leave my job because the man I had feelings for was always hovering outside of my workplace (long long story).

So, we started going to this new church, and it has been so amazing! Everything we had wanted. The Pastor's preaching is on point and Gospel focused, the youth group is amazing and the kids are learning so much! We quickly made friends with about 6 other married couples including Pastor and his wife who are also in their 30's like us, their kids are good friends with our kids. This church has been such a blessing for us.

My problem now is that I don't think I had proper boundaries with the Pastor in the beginning, and now I need to reel it back in. He is a very friendly guy who loves to laugh, joke, and talk a lot. He is never innapropriate, but him and I have gotten into some deep discussions around science, politics, etc. It's not flirty by any standards, but aparently it has bonded us a bit. 

I never had a pastor that would actually come talk to us, so I assumed that boundaries with pastors are slightly looser than with any other man because they are like counselors in a way. My husband told me early on that I needed to be careful with Pastor because he can see that Pastor has an attraction to me, I saw it as well, but because I definitely did  NOT have any attraction towards him I had my guard down (dumb idea). 

And then about 2 weeks ago an "incident" happened, I was at church cleaning the nursery and talking to a female friend downstairs, her husband was supposed to talk to Pastor for a bit, but when I went upstairs to put some keys away Pastor started talking to me, my friend's husband went downstairs to let Pastor talk to me, I didn't want to talk to Pastor because I wasn't comfortable with that idea of us being upstairs by ourselves, but he said he had questions for my husband and I, and I remembered the camera that is always recording, so I sat and talked to him. We talked for a long time, too long. I can't blame it all on him, I shouldv'e said I needed to go, at one point I got up and started to leave, but he kept talking and asking more questions. We mostly talked about ministry, but I did talk aout my marriage a little  . I know better now. My friend's husband came back upstairs to say goodbye to Pastor, and I apologized that they didn't get to talk. And also at one point Pastor's wife called him, he looked down at his phone and swiped the call away. 

I came home and told my husband about all of this, and I had no idea at the time but Pastor's wife was also giving him the same talk my husband was giving me, that even if it was innocent it wouldv'e looked innappropriate. I talked to his wife about it and apologized, she told me what she told him, but he told her there was a camera (that's also what he told me during our long talk).

My husband and Pastor went on a camping trip with our sons for a few days, they had a chance to talk about some things. My husband told him that he needs to be careful because women become attatched when you give them attention, Pastor responded along the lines of "I leave that up to God" or something, like he does not take any responsibility for what a woman might think or feel, sort of like if a woman dresses revealing and a man stumbles from it and she says " his reaction is not my responsiblity". 

When my husband came back from their trip, he layed down some NEW boundaries, newer than the ones after my long talk with Pastor. So now when Pastor comes up to me and tries to talk to me I am supposed to keep it short and to the point. I think he knows I am not supposed to talk to him a whole lot anymore, so it surprised my husband and I when he came up to me on wednesday to show me the pictures he took while on the trip with my husband. So, he is still being friendly and not fully avoiding me, which I don't think he will because ... he is a pastor. And I don't know if it would be fair to tell our pastor to no longer talk to me anymore.

This is the first time I have seen my husband this jelous, usually he couldn't care less, even when I was emotionally entangled with the previous guy, it was MY decision to leave the last church and to leave my job. Whatever Pastor and him talked about on their trip seemed to have an effect on my husband because now he is way more protective. 

After my long 2 hour conversation with Pastor, I realized my boundaries with him were WAY out of wack, and that he is not a counselor, and that I needed to have the same boundaries that I do with other men, but now after their trip it is even stricter.

What boundaries are acceptable between a woman and a Pastor? 

Sorry this is so long, I think Satan is trying to turn this blessing of a church into a curse. I don't believe Pastor has any ill intentions, but I do believe he struggles with his eyes (I catch him looking at me a lot). I won't allow the enemy to take me back to where I was before.

Believe it or not, the same dynamic happens between persons of both the opposite and the same gender in various scenarios, be they social, workplace, or ekklesia environments.

It is an age old bind, and something Joseph got caught up in. (Genesis 39)

It's actually a type of control when what should be a sanctified friendship includes expectations and demands that are overly intimate and emotional. 

Congratulations @bornagain2011, You have acted wisely to either terminate contact or distance from the danger.

Unfortunately some ekklesias develop a cult of compliance that pressures its adherents to conform to a particular style of association. I have an aversion to anyone getting too invested in my "business" (read "personal life") and so if possible I tactfully avoid getting tied up in other people's emotional and domestic affairs.  

This from the Word of God:

Gal 6:1-5  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.  (2)  Bear you one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.  (3)  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.  (4)  But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.  (5)  For every man shall bear his own burden.
 

[bornagain2011]

8 hours ago, Who me said:

Exactly the same as between a woman and a man she is not married to, or for a man towards a woman he is not married to.

 

 

So very short conversations and move on? What about group settings where there are a few couples talking together? Is it appropriate to talk or joke with a man in that setting? 

[bornagain2011]

7 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Believe it or not, the same dynamic happens between persons of both the opposite and the same gender in various scenarios, be they social, workplace, or ekklesia environments.

It is an age old bind, and something Joseph got caught up in. (Genesis 39)

It's actually a type of control when what should be a sanctified friendship includes expectations and demands that are overly intimate and emotional. 

Congratulations @bornagain2011, You have acted wisely to either terminate contact or distance from the danger.

Unfortunately some ekklesias develop a cult of compliance that pressures its adherents to conform to a particular style of association. I have an aversion to anyone getting too invested in my "business" (read "personal life") and so if possible I tactfully avoid getting tied up in other people's emotional and domestic affairs.  

This from the Word of God:

Gal 6:1-5  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.  (2)  Bear you one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.  (3)  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.  (4)  But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.  (5)  For every man shall bear his own burden.
 

Pastor has been saying he wants us to share our burdens with one another, I told him that I don't think it's wise for people to share with the opposite sex what struggles or burdens they have because it could cause someone to stumble, he said God gave him very big shoulders to be able to handle anything I tell him, he said "you would be surprised at what I have heard and can handle". I made the mistake of opening up and telling him about my struggles at our old church, my recent mistakes, and why we came to the new one, I am afraid I might have caused him to stumble  .

I am also afraid he will not accept us not really talking to each other anymore. Yesterday he asked me how I was 3 times, and 2 of those times I was purposely cutting it short by needing to go do something else. The 3rd time was more in passing. He wants everyone to be able to talk to everyone. He is very friendly, open, and chatty. I am a little afraid of offending him by basically ignoring him. 

I know I can't take back all the careless words I said to him, but I can hold my tongue from now on and only talk to his wife about my personal life. I guess I just thought we were supposed to talk to our pastors about our personal lives. 

Thank 

[leah777]

Pastors do not have special rights. This pastor is over stepping. Do not accept guilt or blame for his words, action and choices. 

If he won't accept Christian boundaries regarding proper behaviour to women, your husband must step in to speak with him, and protect you from the behaviours of the pastor. 

Do not worry about him stumbling. It is not your problem. Protect yourself and allow your husband to protect you.

If the pastor is offended, it is his fault for not acting with respect to your womanhood. 

I think you are to be commended for your stance and awareness of how inappropriate he is being.

In this context of overfamiliarity, pastor is just to be seen as any other man, and treated accordingly.

Peace and blessings to you.

[BK1110]

If anything the pastor should be MORE cautious than anyone else as he is the head of his congregation and is supposed to lead by example. My pastor has mentioned many times during services when preaching about related topics that he and his wife committed early in their marriage and ministry that he would NEVER be alone with ANY woman for ANY reason if at all humanly possible, to nip any possible temptation in the bud immediately, and to not even allow the appearance of any sort of impropriety. If that means he has to miss an appointment or refer her to a well-respected female counselor or whatever else, so be it.

To be frank, your pastor's cavalier attitude to the situation, especially if his wife has shared her concerns about it with him and he's not taking it (and her) seriously, is deeply troubling. What else might he be too cavalier about, you have to wonder.

[bornagain2011]

2 hours ago, leah777 said:

Pastors do not have special rights. This pastor is over stepping. Do not accept guilt or blame for his words, action and choices. 

If he won't accept Christian boundaries regarding proper behaviour to women, your husband must step in to speak with him, and protect you from the behaviours of the pastor. 

Do not worry about him stumbling. It is not your problem. Protect yourself and allow your husband to protect you.

If the pastor is offended, it is his fault for not acting with respect to your womanhood. 

I think you are to be commended for your stance and awareness of how inappropriate he is being.

In this context of overfamiliarity, pastor is just to be seen as any other man, and treated accordingly.

Peace and blessings to you.

My husband did talk to him about the incident on their camping trip, he told Pastor that he needs to be careful about how things look and women's hearts. I don't know what all was said because my husband doesn't tell me everything. But he did say a few things, one being Pastor doesn't really think about how the woman feels about the interactions because I guess he is entirely innocent in his thinking so he leaves it up to God, and Pastor did admit to struggling with the same things every man struggles with. My husband said they were watching a tv show in the hotel room and a woman came on the tv wearing a tank top and bending over, I guess Pastor immediately turned his head away. I thought this was a good thing, but my husband said it was an overreaction and that it shows Pastor can't handle things. I don't know. I kinda wish my husband was that way.

But whatever they discussed on their trip changed my husband's attitude about how we can interact, which he didn't tell me about until after church Sunday due to his frustrations of how Pastor was with me etc. I didn't know about their talk on the trip until I called my husband out for over-reacting about church, then he finally told me some things and that Pastor and I need firmer boundaries.

Thank you for your advice about how to treat Pastor. I don't know if this matters, but Pastor is only 34 (I am 37), this is his first church that he has pastored and he started last December. So I think he is still learning and growing. He does seem to be really grounded in the Lord, I just don't want to be a temptation to him. I try to dress really modestly also. 

[bornagain2011]

22 minutes ago, BK1110 said:

If anything the pastor should be MORE cautious than anyone else as he is the head of his congregation and is supposed to lead by example. My pastor has mentioned many times during services when preaching about related topics that he and his wife committed early in their marriage and ministry that he would NEVER be alone with ANY woman for ANY reason if at all humanly possible, to nip any possible temptation in the bud immediately, and to not even allow the appearance of any sort of impropriety. If that means he has to miss an appointment or refer her to a well-respected female counselor or whatever else, so be it.

To be frank, your pastor's cavalier attitude to the situation, especially if his wife has shared her concerns about it with him and he's not taking it (and her) seriously, is deeply troubling. What else might he be too cavalier about, you have to wonder.

His wife is an amazing woman, one of the funniest people I know! But... she was raised in a very strict minnonite home so she doesn't seem to understand the way a man thinks. When I spoke to her about the incident she said that her husband just doesn't think those kinds of thoughts, he is very innocent, so his boundaries are down quite a bit, so she has to explain to him how things look to an outsider. I would never say this to her, but I was thinking that he is not as innocent as he seems, he is still a man and has human struggles, hopefully he surrenders them to God each day and chooses to walk in the light. I know my husband struggles with his eyes and thought life and that he has to continually push out sinful thoughts, we all do.

Pastor has to be careful with thinking he is above any sin. Humans bond with each other when they spend a lot of time around each other and share. Pastor seems to think people won't develop feelings for each other because we are all mature christians. Maybe men don't catch feelings so easily, but women do. And Pastor is very charismatic, he asks me lots of questions, seems to be drawn to talk to me, sent me a friend request on FB and liked several of my things (which I later unfriended him and my husband talked to him), and he has even invited me to an evening bible study out of town (I'm sure he meant for my husband and I together). So he sends out signals of attraction, but I have been ignoring them and trying to set a good example to other women and to him, and trying to honor my marriage. 

It's just hard sometimes. He is not even very attractive, but I don't think men realize what attention does to women, I don't just mean staring at them or talking a little bit, I mean acting like you want to know them and know everything about them, valuing their minds and laughing with them. It is purely intoxicating, probably similar to if a woman dressed provocatively and acted like she wanted a man. So, I have to pray each time before church that I don't get sucked in to conversations with Pastor and that I can be strong enough to walk away like I did yesterday.

[bornagain2011]

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Edited March 8, 2021 by bornagain2011
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