Peterlag Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 5 hours ago, Who me said: Yet John also wrote to Christians in 1 john1:8, if we say we don't sin we decide ourselves and the truth is not in us. We are not perfect and while Jesus has changed us we are still in a world where we are tempted and we often fail, which is why verse 9 goes on to tell us God will forgive us. John was not writing to us in 1 John 1:8, but rather the unbelievers. Same with Romans 10:9-10 which was not written to the Christian, but to the non-Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Logostician said: Yes we still have a sin nature in this world. That is why we never see perfect people in this world, including ourselves. I think the point Paul is making is that with the Spirit of God we are no longer slaves to this sin nature. We will still be tempted. We can overcome most temptation with the help of the Spirit. When we do occasionally fall into sin, Jesus is faithful to forgive as he promised. But the only person who was ever tempted to sin, but did not sin was Jesus. As the only sinless man in the history of the world, he had the power and purity to lay his life down for the rest of mankind, past, present, and future. No other man was fit to do this. I beleive that the Spirit in us constantly battles the temptations of the fleshly man. The gospel armor of Ephesians is not for decorations. It is for the battle against evil that can still take hold of us if we do not remain strong in the Spirit. The Bible does not teach we have 2 natures and that we are in a battle. It teaches we are dead to sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 514 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,196 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 3,358 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Peterlag said: @Not me You write well. Glad someone else sees what I see. Thank you.. A seeing into what our salvation in Christ consists of, is a blessing above blessings, not only in this world, but also in the world that is to come,,, will the fruit be known... Be blessed in the learning of Christ.. A fellow learner, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2021 Yes, humans will always have a sin nature until the born again believers get to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Peterlag said: The Bible does not teach we have 2 natures and that we are in a battle. It teaches we are dead to sin. Galatians 5:17 (DRB) For the flesh lusteth against the spirit: and the spirit against the flesh: For these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would. (ESV) For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Weymouth) For the cravings of the lower nature are opposed to those of the Spirit, and the cravings of the Spirit are opposed to those of the lower nature; because these are antagonistic to each other, so that you cannot do everything to which you are inclined. (YLT) for the flesh doth desire contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit contrary to the flesh, and these are opposed one to another, that the things that ye may will—these ye may not do; 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.29 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted March 10, 2021 21 hours ago, Peterlag said: I see the "sin nature" as something that existed before Jesus Christ destroyed it when the spirit of Christ came within the believer. This spirit is indeed a life form that is in all Christians and it seems to me one cannot understand and therefore function or be in the spirit if our old nature (which is dead) thinks in it's unrenewed mind that it suppose to be fighting against the new nature. Paul wrote in Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:" That's what I'm talking about. I now understand being in Christ is being in the spirit and neither of them (in Christ or in the spirit) has anything to do with the darn flesh. It now seems perfectly clear to walk in the spirit is the same as putting on the Lord Jesus Christ. And so in my mind the 4 verses below fit perfectly. Every single person I know has told me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Galatians 5:16,18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. To believe in a "sin nature" would give us an excuse to blame our sin on someone else, wouldn't it? I suspect we were born without a sin nature, but when we commited our first sin, we created a small addiction to sin, and with each sin, the addiction grows bigger. But then, if we stop sinning, the addiction should fade till it exists no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwalker Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 1,753 Days Won: 4 Joined: 12/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2021 I am afraid I have to disagree with you on Romans 7 Paul is talking about himself and the dual nature we all have to deal with The evil of the Flesh and the Righteousness of the Spirit. Romans 7: 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. In Chapter 12 he tells us to submit our bodies as a living sacrifice, because there is no way that the flesh can ever be redeemed, this is why we will get a new body on Resurrection Romans 12:12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. We are no longer BOUND to the sin nature, but as long as we take breath into this corrupt body we will have to fight it. 2 Corinthians 10:, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled. We have been set free from sin, it is no longer our master, but unless you have found a secret that I am unware of, we all still deal with sin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted March 10, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 279 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 13,126 Content Per Day: 9.67 Reputation: 13,662 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 10, 2021 21 hours ago, Peterlag said: Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Galatians 5:16,18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. All three of your scripture references tell us that it is possible to still sin as a Christian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted March 11, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,350 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Online Share Posted March 11, 2021 There are numerous scriptural references to our present estate in this flesh as others have shared. This flesh is referred to as the body of corruption (1 Corinthians 15:42). We know that this flesh, which was sown in corruption, will return to the dust and is not perfected. It passes away; all flesh is like grass (Isaiah 40:6). We are not incapable of error once the Spirit of the Lord comes to dwell with us and we therefore dwell with Him. If we are to be perfected while we sojourn in this world, then what need would we have of His Spirit? Why would men require God's grace, "bringing salvation to all people, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously, and in a godly manner in the present age"? (Titus 2:11a- 12 NASB) We are not perfect but yet we strive toward perfection, secure in the knowledge that Christ Jesus justifies and teaches us for the remainder of our days on earth. The hope of our salvation is thus, that the day will come when we will exchange the corruptible for the incorruptible by the word of the Lord. There are strange and altogether bizarre doctrines afoot these days, just as there were after the Lord rose from the dead and ascended to heaven. I know of one who teaches that "real" followers of Christ will live forever in this flesh, and those who suffer the end of this flesh never belonged to Him. The fellow will only teach this until his flesh is no more. Do you believe that you are above reproach, @Peterlag? Your assertion in this topic has been proven false by the testimony of the scriptures, scriptures which you apparently aren't aware of. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyme Posted March 11, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,300 Content Per Day: 1.94 Reputation: 1,125 Days Won: 10 Joined: 02/16/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11, 2021 Good thing my hope rests not on my proformance or the words of theologians, but instead rests on the beautiful lord Jesus. I am ugly but his beauty guides me. Lord keep me with you always. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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