Futurism

[Your closest friendnt]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:53 PM, Josheb said:

Scripture states otherwise. 

Mark 12:18 KJV
"Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying..."

Luke 20:27 KJV
"Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him..."

Acts 23:8 KJV
"For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both." 

 

 

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Job 7:9
"When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, so he who goes down to Sheol does not come up." 

This passage gives a message. 

It says "he who goes down to Sheol",

In other words we can say that the author of this statement believed that THERE IS LIFE AFTER DEATH and he also believed that the dead people are gathered in Sheol.

The only place he mentioned is the place of Sheol.

He does not mention the Father Patriarch Abraham. 

He is not making the distinction between Abraham and his descendants and the rest of the world. There is no mention of Moses. 

***And he also said "he who goes down to Sheol does not come up".

If during his time that's how things were, I don't think that anyone can argue with him. 

If a change took place later on, as to where people at the time of their death may go, as it began to happen with Abraham and if that changed happened later than his time, then he is correct and he is describing of how the world of the dead was at his time and that "no one could leave that place" in his time this is correct.

If something happened later on and the result was that some of the people who were in Sheol exit that place and are not there anymore, and if this is something that may have happened in later time and he did not know about it.

So he is describing a world before the change came.

We can tell that he was award only of part of Genesis 3:15

¹⁵ And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

He knew about the authority of the one who takes all the people and keeps them in Sheol at their death is not the Lord God. 

He also knew that there was only one place for man to continue his life after death and that was down to Sheol.

And he did not know of the Day of Abraham, that God had set him apart from the rest of the world in Life and in his death he was made a Patriarch of the people of God and they were set apart from the rest of the world at death. They were not with the Lord God, but The Lord continued to be their God after their death. 

And we can tell that he did not have the hope of the coming change. He did not die with the hope that on the Day of Jesus Christ people will stopped pouring into Sheol and the exodus that happened from Sheol and Abraham's Bossom in the Day of Jesus Christ.  

 

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Psalm 6:4-5
"Return, O LORD, rescue my soul; save me because of Your lovingkindness.  For there is no mention of You in death; in Sheol who will give You thanks?" 

Psalm 49:12-14
"But man in his pomp will not endure; he is like the beasts that perish.  This is the way of those who are foolish, and of those after them who approve their words. Selah.  As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; death shall be their shepherd; and the upright shall rule over them in the morning, and their form shall be for Sheol to consume so that they have no habitation."

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.  Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun."

The Sadducees denied the messianic significance of verse like the following, 

Psalm 16:10
"For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay." 

Psalm 49:15
"But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me. Selah."

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Retrobyter]

On 4/11/2021 at 5:44 PM, Marathoner said:

And yet there have been two who have, brother. Consider Enoch from Genesis chapter 5 and of course, Elijah the prophet. The Lord took them both. 

We can indeed say, "all things are possible with God." Refer to Matthew 19:26. The Lord Himself tells us this. 

You don't know what became of them! Both were "taken" but we're not told WHERE! So many ASSUME that God took them to "Heaven"; but, we're never told that is true!

It's equally possible that God took them to another area on earth where they died there in seclusion or with another people, according to a purpose God had for them.

WE'RE NOT TOLD THEIR FATE!

[Retrobyter]

On 4/18/2021 at 1:23 PM, Josheb said:

Yes, and Peter, speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost tells us that anticipation was about the resurrection, not a literal throne of wood or stone made by human hands. 

Shalom, Josheb.

Once again, this argument is not valid. You're coming to a false conclusion because you're not finishing Peter's thought. I'm going to take your quotes and re-highlight them for emphasis only:

Acts 2:30-36 KJV
"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;  He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, 'Sit thou on my right hand,  Until I make thy foes thy footstool.'  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ." 

Acts 2:29-36 NAS
"Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.  And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne,  he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.  This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.  Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.  For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,  UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET.' Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified." 

Acts 2:29-36 ESV
“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.  Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne,  he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.  This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.  Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing.  For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, ‘The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand,  until I make your enemies your footstool.'' Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

He spoke of the Resurrection of the Messiah - the One Anointed to be King - when David said, "That He was neither abandoned to the Unseen nor did His flesh see corruption!" The Resurrection was necessary, from David's point of view, BECAUSE God had already promised him with an oath that God would set one of David's descendants on his throne! Therefore, that One could not remain dead because He would be seated upon David's throne, if God is to remain truthful!

I'll stop there.

 

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

You don't know what became of them! Both were "taken" but we're not told WHERE! So many ASSUME that God took them to "Heaven"; but, we're never told that is true!

It's equally possible that God took them to another area on earth where they died there in seclusion or with another people, according to a purpose God had for them.

WE'RE NOT TOLD THEIR FATE!

I never assumed to know their fate, @Retrobyter. Please show me where I wrote about their fate. Thanks.  

[Retrobyter]

On 4/19/2021 at 12:27 PM, Josheb said:

Good link. I'd also add the Dispensational assumption scripture/prophecy should be read literally. They do not practice that assumption very consistently but it is nonetheless an assumption on the part of Dispensationalism.

Shalom, Josheb.

Actually, the Futurist (not necessarily Dispensational) assumption is that the Word of God should be taken in its normal, grammatical and historical interpretation. SOMETIMES that involves taking a passage more literally than one might take it looking through the allegorical frame of reference, but literalism is not fundamental to the Futurist's point of view.

[Retrobyter]

On 4/29/2021 at 11:27 PM, Josheb said:

First, that's not quite correct. You've used the word, "interpretation" instead of "usage".  That is the definition provided by Ramm and used by Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice, Vlach and scores of others. Otherwise, yes, that is how they define the term but they apply it selectively.

Shalom, Josheb.

You're quite right. Usage IS different than definition much of the time. People are not very consistent. And, I can understand why. Many have a problem with being consistent in different settings. In being confrontational, they take the "Devil's advocate" approach to argument. That's one thing (of many) I'm trying to correct, both in my own thinking and in the positions others take.

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If they did so uniformly then they would read the word "near" or "at hand" in Revelation 1:3 and 22:10 literally, in its normal grammatical and historic usage.

Well, the word "eggus" in Greek is a difficult word to understand in the process of translation into English. Rather than interpreted as "near," there are times when "nearing" would be a better translation. After all, it is a comparative word, taken from the superlative "eggista."

Rather than "in hand," as it directly translates, it should be understood more to be "within one's grasp." Not actually "in hand," yet, but dangling "within one's grasp," if they but reached out and grabbed it. That's how it's best understood in the early portions of the Gospels about the "Gospel of the Kingdom" that both Yeshua` and His herald offered to the people of Yhudah. 

Either change leads one to see this word as a progressive comparison. A case in point:

Matthew 24:32-33 (KJV)

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh (eggus = "nearing; approaching"): 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near (eggus), even at the doors.

The leaves of the fig tree begin to bud in early spring. How "near" is that to summer? However, it's true that summer is NEARING. The qualifier in verse 33 is the word "all." When one sees "ALL these things," THEN one knows that the Second Coming is "nearing (eggus), even at the doors."

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They would do the same with the 14 mentions of "this generation" found in the gospels. And.....

Continuing on in Matthew 24:34,

Matthew 24:34 (KJV)

34Verily I say unto you, This generation (Greek: genea) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

However, again, this Greek word is not to be understood as we understand the word "generation" today. In fact, it's hard to pin down the word "generation" in modern usage! Count the number of names in Matthew 1 compared to the number of names in 1 and 2 Kings and 1 and 2 Chronicles (as far as one can go) and consider the statement that he makes in verse 17:

Matthew 1:17 (KJV)

17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

It doesn't fit! If someone didn't make a mistake in recording the names, in interpretation from Hebrew (or Aramaic) to Greek, in interpretation from Hebrew and Greek into English, in transmittal of this information through other languages, then one must come to the conclusion that our understanding of "generation" doesn't fit with the author's understanding of "generation."

I give my dogs a single slice of American cheese (individually wrapped) in the morning. I do a pretty good job of dividing it between the two, and in small enough bites to make it last a while. (That way they savor it.) Being mathematically oriented, I will count the number of times I fold the cheese to make a new piece. However, it only takes 5 folds to make 6 pieces. (That's not earth-shattering; it's basic math.) HOWEVER, what it shows is that perspective is important: If I'm counting the number of pieces, an even number, so that each dog gets the same amount, then I need to subtract one from the number of folds I make.

We must ask the same question about this word "generation."

Here's the list of all the kings of Judah (and one queen) from David down to the Captivity and their overall assessment by God:

David - right - 40 years
Solomon - right-->evil - 40 years
Rehoboam - evil - 17 years
Abijah - evil - 3 years
Asa - right - 41 years
Jehoshaphat - right - 25 years
Jehoram - evil - 8 years
*Ahaziah - evil - 1 year
*Athaliah (f) - evil - 6 years
*Jehoash/Joash - right-->evil - 40 years
*Amaziah - right - 29 years
(These 76 years are not listed in Matthew.)
Azariah/Uzziah - right - 52 years
Jotham - right - 16 years
Ahaz - right - 16 years
Hezekiah - right - 29 years
Manasseh - evil - 55 years
Amon - evil - 2 years
Josiah - right - 31 years
(Captivity began in stages)
Jehoahaz - evil - 3 months
Eliakim -->Jehoiakim - evil - 11 years
Jehoiachin - evil - 3 months
Mattaniah-->Zedekiah - evil - 11 years
(Full Captivity in Babylon)
(Matthew also lumps "Jeconiah and his brethren" together into one generation.)

I don't know the answer to this one, but the point I'm making is that the way they understood "generation," which was translated to be the Greek word "genea," "geneai" in plural, is NOT the same way we understand the word "generation" to be.

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.....they most definitely would do so with what Peter said at Pentecost. 

Well, I don't think so, but since that's the issue, I'll table it for now, here.

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But they do not do so. 

It's ironic because in many places partial-preterists are more literal than Dispensationalists!!! Yet, they get criticized for spiritualizing or allegorizing or non-literal interpretations by those claiming to be literal but are not. 

I am a futurist, Roy. 

That's good. I'm also a futurist, and I consider myself to be a partial-preterist, too. Are you claiming to be partial-preterist, or were you just saying that about partial-preterists in general?

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I am simply not a modern Dispensationalist style futurist.

Nor am I.

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I often qualify the term as stated. All Christians, except possibly the full-preterists are futurists. We all look forward to a return of Christ.

Yes, but where we often differ is in the REASON for His return. For instance, the prophecies about the Messiah reigning over Israel forever have not yet occurred. I fully expect the Messiah Yeshua` to return to FULFILL those prophecies, exactly as recorded.

Dispensationalists, who say that God works with people in different ways in different dispensations of time, will often talk about the Rapture taking place first.

Whereas I DO believe that people will be resurrected, transformed, and taken into the sky (1 Thess. 4), I believe that it will be a form of "mass transit sytem" to get us all to where He will need us. We'll not be going to "Heaven" or somewhere else in the universe; we'll be going with Yeshua`s messengers to the Middle East. After all, we're told that, in His zeal and urgency, He will be going on ahead of us, to begin the fighting without us.

As far as dispensationalism, I believe that God works with people the same in EVERY age of men: by grace, through faith, and through blood. Throughout history, before the Messiah came the first time, the blood sacrifice of the Messiah was represented symbolically by the blood of animal sacrifices. Since the Messiah has come the first time, we now trust in the Sacrifice that HE made through His own blood on the cross at Golgotha/Kranion/Calvary.

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Most of us do not force scripture to do gymnastics to justify our futurism the way templeists and rapturists and two-kingdomers and other modern futurists do. And as far as Dispensationalism goes literalism is definitely fundamental to that theology. It is one of the three fundamental tenets of Darby's hermeneutic. I'll gladly quote a pile of leading Dispensational theologians stating that position from Vlach all the way back to Darby if you like. 

No need. I agree. However, the literal interpretation of Scripture is not all that bad. I've found that MANY passages of Scripture should probably be taken more literally than is purported in sermons I've heard. For instance, there's no reason why Ezekiel 37 (the valley full of dry bones) should not be taken literally about the Resurrection to come, and yet, many Christians feel that it is symbolic as a "vision."

However, the conclusion is God saying,

Ezekiel 37:12-14 (KJV)

12 "Therefore prophesy and say unto them, 'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it," saith the LORD.'"

Sounds like it's to be taken literally, to me. 

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So I have no problem with futurism per se. I am always appreciative of non-dispy futurists when they post because they provide contrast to the Dispies. However, many who self-identify as non-Dispy are in fact Dispensationalists and don't know it. I used to be one of them. Whether Dispy or not any eschatology built on eisegetic inferences and not exegetic inferences has problems. 

I agree here, too. 

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

My point is not that complicated. Using the word "interpretation" to define interpretation is question begging. The proper definition of literal interpretation is to read words with the meaning they have in ordinary usage. 

Shalom, Josheb.

Well, it's a little more than that. According to Wikipedia,

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Biblical literalism or biblicism is a term used differently by different authors concerning biblical interpretation. It can equate to the dictionary definition of literalism: "adherence to the exact letter or the literal sense",[1] where literal means "in accordance with, involving, or being the primary or strict meaning of the word or words; not figurative or metaphorical".[2]

Alternatively, the term can refer to the historical-grammatical method, a hermeneutic technique that strives to uncover the meaning of the text by taking into account not just the grammatical words, but also the syntactical aspects, the cultural and historical background, and the literary genre. It emphasizes the referential aspect of the words in the text without denying the relevance of literary aspects, genre, or figures of speech within the text (e.g., parable, allegory, simile, or metaphor).[3] It does not necessarily lead to complete agreement upon one single interpretation of any given passage. This Christian fundamentalist and evangelical hermeneutical approach to scripture is used extensively by fundamentalist Christians,[4] in contrast to the historical-critical method of mainstream Judaism or Mainline Protestantism. Those who relate biblical literalism to the historical-grammatical method use the word "letterism" to cover interpreting the Bible according to the dictionary definition of literalism.[5]

 

The main thought of the historical-grammatical method of interpretation is that a passage of Scripture is not to be taken allegorically UNLESS the context explicitly states that it is to be taken allegorically. OTHERWISE, it is to have its "ordinary usage."

[Justin Adams]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:31 PM, Justin Adams said:

Dallas Theological Seminary is the key place where the Jesuit concepts were taught to thousands of Pastors, including today’s top TV and radio personalities.

Bumping this up to address the thousands of believers  [Kings and Priests] that are waiting for a fictitious 100o years before they think haSatan and 'satan' proper noun is bound and they can actually DO something.

BINDING:

The Binding of Satan
by Douglas Kelly

Revelation 20 is the only place in the Bible that speaks of “the millennium”—the thousand-year reign of the triumphant Christ on earth. Nowhere else does Holy Scripture mention this word, so it is necessary to look at related teachings elsewhere in Scripture to understand what it means in Revelation. A sound principle of biblical interpretation (used from ancient times by Augustine, Tychonius, and other early Christian writers) is that one interprets the few mentions of a word or concept in light of the many, and the symbolic in light of the plain. It would be contrary to a clear understanding of the Scriptures to make the many fit into the one, or the plain into the symbolic. Therefore, we should understand what Revelation 20, a highly symbolic book, says about the millennium in light of the very large number of other biblical passages that tell us more plainly (and less symbolically) what occurs between Christ’s resurrection and ascension to heaven, and His final return to earth to complete His victorious work. With that in mind, let us seek biblical help in order to make sense of the very first thing that is said to occur in this thousand-year period between Christ’s two comings: the binding of Satan.

Revelation 20:1–3 says that a mighty angel from God binds the Devil for a thousand years. Specifically, verse 3 relates that he is bound from deceiving the nations during this period. Something happens to Satan’s ability to keep the nations of earth blinded from seeing who God is, and what His gospel means for them. As a result of Christ’s finished work in dying on the cross, in rising from the dead, in ascending to the Father, and in being crowned on the throne of glory, Satan lost his power to deceive the untold millions of pagans, whom he formerly kept blinded to God’s saving truth.

The ancient story of Job may give us some important insight into this massive reduction of Satan’s power over the heathen nations. Job 1:6–12 portrays Satan as possessing the ability to come into God’s immediate presence along with other angels, or “sons of God” (v.6). He used this place of power to cause great harm to Job. But according to what Christ says in the Gospels, Satan lost that privileged access to the heavenly courts as a result of the incarnation and work of Christ. In Luke 10:18–19, the seventy disciples return with great joy from their successful mission in preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. Christ then explains how they were able to accomplish these wonders: “He said to them, ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven’” (v. 18). Jesus explains Satan’s fall in terms of Christian ministry: “Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you” (v. 19).

It is significant that the first beings to recognize the incarnate Christ, according to the gospel of Mark, were demons. Mark 1:24 and Luke 4:34 are among the passages that show the demons crying out in terror that the Holy One of God has come to torment them. Jesus explained that when He cast out demons by the Spirit of God (Matt. 12:28–29), it meant that the kingdom of God had come. In His work, He was binding the strong man (that is, the devil), who formerly had been keeping people in the dark and painful prison of unbelief, sin, and certain judgment.

After the Lord’s crucifixion and resurrection, and immediately before His ascension back to the Father, He commissioned the church to “go … and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (28:19). They would be able to do this because of Christ’s victory over Satan, who had long blinded the nations, for Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me’ (v. 18). Satan’s illegitimate power over the nations has been wrested from him, and placed into the hands of the legitimate Lord and Savior of the world. Now the Christian church can do its work; it can engage in successful mission all over the world, bringing the good news of freedom from captivity to those who had long been in chains because of sin and unbelief.

Colossians 2:14–15 makes it clear what happened to the powers of evil through Christ’s ministry, especially what He accomplished on the cross: “[He] cancel[ed] the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.” This indicates that wicked powers were defeated in principle at the cross of Christ. When Jesus purged all of our sins on Calvary, something happened to Satan. The evil one lost his authority to keep people back from God. He was bound by what Jesus did.

The missionary journeys of the Apostle Paul into the pagan territories of Asia Minor, Greece, and Rome were successful in turning the once-darkened nations to the saving light of God in Christ on the basis of the binding of Satan. Paul says in Acts 28:28, “Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen.” That has been the engine of all Christian missions and evangelism from that day to this one.

How long does the millennium last? There can be no doubt that it began with the completed work of Christ on earth. Revelation 20 follows immediately upon Revelation 19, which celebrates the triumph of the One who is “King of kings and Lord of lords” (v. 16), whose robe was dipped in blood (v. 13), and who now rules the nations with a rod of iron (v. 15). But when does it end? Revelation 20 presents it as continuing until the end of the age, when after a brief uprising by Satan, the final judgment takes place (20:7–11). That means that the evil one is bound from deceiving the nations until just before the conclusion of salvation history.

Why, then, does Revelation use the expression a thousand years? In terms of biblical numbers, ten represents fullness, and a thousand is ten times ten times ten, hence fullness times fullness times fullness. It seems to equal a vast number of years without being a precise chronology of human history. Nowhere else does Scripture limit the binding of Satan and the success of the church’s mission to a specific period of time before the end of the age. Moreover, there are other places in Scripture where the word thousand is used without being a literal number. In Psalm 50 this same number is employed in a different context, where it says that God owns “the cattle on a thousand hills” (v. 10). This could not mean that the only thing God owns in His creation is one thousand hills, for “the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof” (24:1). It is an expression for fullness. It is the same in Psalm 68:17, where the chariots of God are said to be “twice ten thousand.” It is highly unlikely that God has only twenty thousand active angels at his behest, for Christ on the cross could have called down twelve legions of angels (Matt. 26:53), which is far more than twenty thousand. The message in Psalms 50 and 68 is one of fullness, and it is the same in Revelation 20. One day, the fullness of the elect will be brought into the church, and then the end will come. It is not a matter of literally one thousand years, but of God’s secret timing as to the gathering of His people into union with Christ, however long that may take from our human perspective.

Although the evil one still has limited power in a fallen world, it is far less than what he had when he was able to bind and blind all nations outside Israel. And believers can still overcome even Satan’s limited power, for James 4:7 commands us, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.” Revelation 12:11 testifies of the embattled saints that “they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.” Hence, on the foundational truth of Satan’s having been bound from blinding the nations, the church may daily pray, “Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10), and find comfort in God’s assurance: “Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession” (Ps. 2:8).

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/binding-satan/

All, articles, devotionals, product descriptions, questions & answers, and the Ligonier blog located at Ligonier.org/etc. may be shared online if the original source is cited and the content is not altered. If you share any content from Ligonier.org on any website, a link to the original content must be included in the attribution.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Uriah]

Contextualized references by Dominic McCausland, 1859.

 

[Retrobyter]

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

No, it is not. 

Shalom, Josheb.

Sure, it is. Just because you want to accept it simply doesn't mean that it is always so simple! Comparative words, such as "eggus" (which is the same word that you relate as "engys"), like our words "near" or "close," is a RELATIVE TERM! It may be different in different contexts, and it may be different to different readers!

(The reason why I write "eggus" is that the spelling is epsilon-gamma-gamma-upsilon-sigma. The gamma-gamma consonant blend is the "ng" sound in Greek, and for the simple reason that the capital upsilon looks like a capital "Y," the upsilon is often written in English letters [transliterated] as a "y," which I find deceptive and confusing. The SOUND of the upsilon is still the "oo" sound as in "moon." However, the "y" sound in English as a vowel is more associated with the "i" than the "u." It's the difference in English thinking of "tryst" as sounding like "trist" instead of "troost."

I'm okay with either spelling, "eggus" or "engys," but someone else will probably stumble over the spelling.)

When I say, "I'm close to finishing this 500-piece jigsaw puzzle," I may mean that I'm only three pieces away from finishing the puzzle, OR I may mean that the hard parts are done and now I just have to work on the easier-t0-solve parts, which may be as much as a third of the puzzle, even though "it will be a breeze!"

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

That comment is one of the flags you and every other Christian should look for because it is that kind of comment that usually precedes excuse-making instead of exegesis. 

That's one way of looking at it, but the truth is that "eggus" is still debatable.

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

I'm glad scripture is being used comparatively. The example provided proves my point. In the Matthew 24 text Jesus makes a condition statement: When you see X then you know Y is near, nearing, approaching, etc . What Jesus is NOT saying and cannot be made to say is "When X happens then you know Y is 2000 years away." The words, "near," "nearing," and "approaching" do not mean "2000 years from now." Such a view would not be the ordinary usage of any of those words! 

Well, the problem with Matthew 24:32-35 is knowing to what Yeshua` was referring when He said, "it" and "all these things." The "X" and the "Y" are not that clear since they are essentially pronouns.

Matthew 24:32-35 (KJV)

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL THESE THINGS, know that IT is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till ALL THESE THINGS be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The Greek of these verses is ...

32 Apo de tees sukees mathete teen paraboleen: hotan eedee ho klados autees geneetai hapalos kai ta fulla ekfuee, ginooskete hoti eggus to theros; 33 houtoos kai humeis hotan ideete panta tauta, ginooskete hoti eggus estin epi thurais. 34 Ameen legoo humin hoti ou mee parelthee hee genea autee heoos an panta tauta geneetai. 35 Ho ouranos kai hee gee pareleusetai, hoi de logoi mou ou mee parelthoosin.

32 Apo = 32 From
de = but
tees = the
sukees = fig-tree
mathete = you-learn
teen = the
paraboleen:  = parable:
hotan = when
eedee = already
ho = the
klados = branch
autees = of-it
geneetai = may-have-become
hapalos = soft/tender
kai = and/also
ta = the
fulla = leaves
ekfuee, = it-puts-forth,
ginooskete = you-know
hoti = that
eggus = [is]-near
to = the
theros; = summer/heat;
33 houtoos = thus/so/in-this-way/in-this-manner
kai = and/also
humeis = you (plural)
hotan = when
ideete = you-see
panta = all
tauta, = these-things,
ginooskete = you-know
hoti = that
eggus = near
estin = he/she/it-is
epi =upon/over/above/at
thurais. = [the]-doors/gates.
34 Ameen = 34 Truth
legoo = I-say
humin = to-you
hoti = that
ou = not-positively
mee = not-negatively
parelthee = will-have-passed-away
hee = the
genea = race/family/generation
autee = this-one
heoos = until
an = (contingent upon)
panta = all
tauta = these-things
geneetai. = shall-have-happened.
35 Ho = 35 The
ouranos = sky
kai = and/also
hee = the
gee = earth/land/ground/dirt
pareleusetai, = will-pass-away,
hoi = the
de = but
logoi = words/topics/subjects
mou = of-me/my
ou = not-positively
mee = not-negatively
parelthoosin. = shall-pass-away.

And, you may be forgetting that one chapter earlier, Yeshua` HIMSELF put the gap in the timing:

After denouncing the activities and teachings of the scribes and Pharisees, the overspreading of abominations, Yeshua` said,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, YOUR HOUSE (HOUSEHOLD; FAMILY; LINEAGE; NATION) IS LEFT UNTO YOU DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, 'BLESSED (WELCOME) IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME (ON THE AUTHORITY) OF THE LORD.'"

This partially fulfilled Daniel 9:27. How long that gap will be is a function of how soon the Jews of Jerusalem can welcome Him back!

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

Can't be had both ways. 

The adverb engys does mean in hand, not within one's grasp and even if we used "within one's grasp" that would not mean "2000 or more years from now." The word near means near and it never means anything other than near in time or space. 

That's not right. Here's a SIGNIFICANT time in Yeshua`s lifetime when the word PRECISELY meant "within one's grasp":

Matthew 3:1-2 (KJV)

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 4:12-17 (KJV)

12 Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

15 "The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up."

17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Matthew 10:1-8 (KJV)

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, "GO NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, and INTO ANY CITY OF THE SAMARITANS ENTER YE NOT: 6 But GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. 7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."

First His herald gave Israel the message. Then, Yeshua` Himself delivered the message. Lastly, His disciples were to give Israel this message: The Kingdom from the sky is CLOSE AT HAND! It's WITHIN YOUR GRASP! Reach out and take it!

Ultimately, they REFUSED Him and His Kingdom. Thus, it was said,

Matthew 21:42-44 (KJV)

42 Jesus saith unto them, "Did ye never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'?

43 "Therefore say I unto you, THE KINGDOM OF GOD SHALL BE TAKEN FROM YOU, AND GIVEN TO A NATION BRINGING FORTH THE FRUITS THEREOF. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

I believe this is a future nation of the children of Israel, but in any case, the Kingdom was no longer within that nation's reach!

23 hours ago, Josheb said:

Literalists do NOT read prophecy literally even though they say they do and criticize other when they either don't read it literally or read it more literally than they do!

Many don't know what they're talking about, but some do. However, it's not right to lump us all together simply because you find some in error.