70 AD

[WilliamL]

 

28 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

47 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

I should hope you are able to provide a source for this highly questionable statement.

https://www.bible.ca/revelation/Bible-Only-Revelation-Commentary-Josephus-Chronology-Destruction-Jerusalem-First-Jewish-War-70AD.htm

Or read Josephus whole account.

https://josephusonline.weebly.com/jewish-war.html#

Nothing in the links above provides any evidence at all for the statement:

"March AD 66: Book of Revelation arrives in Jerusalem: Seven autograph copies of the Book of Revelation arrive in Jerusalem via the seven messengers of the 7 Churches of Asia (Rev 2-3)."

Most certainly nothing that Josephus wrote.

Pure and blatantly unsubstantiated spec.

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

From my blog article on Daniel 9:26b-27, found here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

I would suggest you read the whole article whenever you get the time.

"One issue that has rightly troubled many commentators is the gap in time, presumed by both the future and historical views, between the end of the 69 weeks of years and the beginning of the 70th. Some few people believe there was no gap, and the last seven (or three and one-half) years immediately followed the death of Jesus. However, they can provide no plausible argument for the fulfillment of the seven events prophesied by verses 26b-27. Nothing of the kind occurred in the 30s A.D.

"Likewise, the future view has no convincing biblical argument for a nearly 2000-year gap. The historical view does provide a legitimate reason for a gap, however, which is this: 40 years (or days) was Godʼs standard period for the testing of His people Israelʼs obedience. In particular, God tested Israelʼs faithfulness for 40 years after they entered into the Mosaic Covenant at Mount Sinai. All the Israelites of adult age who failed that test died.

"God likewise allotted 40 years to test whether the Jewish people, and especially their religious leaders, would accept or reject Christ’s New Covenant. After those 40 years were fulfilled, the rebels against the New Covenant had their holy city and Temple destroyed, which effectively ended many mandated practices of the Old Covenant. That covenant required both a Temple and a place to gather for the yearly festivals of the Law. Both places were destroyed, and the Temple was never rebuilt. ..."

William, I certainly enjoyed your comments!

My only response would be:

1) I think we are in somewhat of agreement in that the gap between the Cross and 70 AD which might be 40 years or even 38 years may symbolize the punishment the Jews experienced in the desert. 

However, I am having a difficult time with the idea that God would give the Jews ANOTHER chance to accept Jesus as their Messiah... (but we all know that His Mercy is endless), after they had crucified Him. 

         a) WITHOUT limiting God in any way of His infinite Grace and Mercy, I believe He has made His decision to send Israel off into the desert like “goat” would be at Passover. They will be destroyed and dispersed and Israel will be completely made desolate.

          b) Also, after the 40 years all of those who were alive and witnessed the Cross and rejecting Jesus would most likely have been deceased by that time. Perhaps the “leaven” was still alive and well with their children... similar to God’s instructions to Joshua when he entered into the promised land- destroy ALL- men, women and children and animals and everything... 

2) And here is where we disagree in a big way:

             a) To me, there is certainly no GAP between ANY of the 3 separate periods God carved out of the 70 weeks prophecy. The entire chapter 9 speaks of the prayer of Daniel to God which will then allow the Jews to return to Jerusalem, and this is required for the “restoration” of the people, the land, the city, the buildings, the Temple. These things just mentioned are necessary for their “restoration” back to the pre-Babylon captivity - but they are ALL physical things!

But they HAD to be restored BEFORE the coming Messiah on the first day of the 70th week when He was baptized by John in the Jordan.

Jeremiah hid the ARK so Nebuchadnezzar would not take it to Babylon. This means the ONLY remaining piece of furniture to complete the “restoration” was the HOLY Presence of God in the Holy of Holies. This is why the ARK was hidden and never again to be found- The Messiah would arrive in the last week to BE THE HOLY ONE / Presence in the Temple. 

            1) why people insist on focusing on a “7 year period”, instead of what the Messiah would fulfill WITHIN this last week of Daniel is beyond me!

              2) Jesus did not fail to fulfill His mission and He did not fail to “confirm” His new covenant with the Jews and mankind. God has NEVER NOT fulfilled ANY ONE of His covenants... man has never fulfilled any one of theirs. 

                3) If you are looking at 9:24 and the 6 requirements mentioned, the only way one could claim He failed to fulfill is if we look at this from a “purely physical and worldly” view. (In the exact same way the Jews were looking for their coming Messiah- He would come as a conquering King and destroy the Romans... NO, He came to destroy sin!). This is the same way most view the 6 requirements in 9:24- but it is wrong. Try and look at what Jesus had accomplished through HIS eyes... from HIS Plan of Salvation where His focus is not on the physical but the spiritual fulfillments within HIS Plan of Salvation.

Just my thoughts, Charlie 

 

 

 

[OneLight]

God will give everyone until their last breath a chance to repent and turn to him.  Why single out the Jewish people?

[Justin Adams]

6 minutes ago, OneLight said:

God will give everyone until their last breath a chance to repent and turn to him.  Why single out the Jewish people?

Daniel was told, this is for THY PEOPLE...etc.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Justin Adams

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, OneLight said:

God will give everyone until their last breath a chance to repent and turn to him.  Why single out the Jewish people?

No one has singled out the Jews... except God!

There will ALWAYS be a remnant of Israel- ALWAYS, but God is a God of Mercy and Justice!

He had just sent His People into captivity to Babylon for 70 years because of their continued disobedience and idolatry.

He then brought them back and RESTORED them in EVERY way.... INCLUDING The coming Messiah within their presence (walking and living and teaching and healing them for 3.5 years).

Do you really think their crucifixion of God was “just another disobedience”? 

Can you see even God had Daniel write and tell us how HE viewed this act- by calling it an “abomination”!!!!!!! This act was so horrendous- the crucifixion of God Himself, was the most abominable act man could ever do... and this act would CAUSE their complete “desolation”.

Just my thoughts, Charlie 

 

[OneLight]

Well Charlie, I guess I misunderstood your statement below from the post you created stating how much of "a difficult time with the idea that God would give the Jews ANOTHER chance to accept Jesus as their Messiah".

19 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

No one has singled out the Jews... except God!

 

40 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

However, I am having a difficult time with the idea that God would give the Jews ANOTHER chance to accept Jesus as their Messiah... (but we all know that His Mercy is endless), after they had crucified Him. 

         a) WITHOUT limiting God in any way of His infinite Grace and Mercy, I believe He has made His decision to send Israel off into the desert like “goat” would be at Passover. They will be destroyed and dispersed and Israel will be completely made desolate.

          b) Also, after the 40 years all of those who were alive and witnessed the Cross and rejecting Jesus would most likely have been deceased by that time. Perhaps the “leaven” was still alive and well with their children... similar to God’s instructions to Joshua when he entered into the promised land- destroy ALL- men, women and children and animals and everything...

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 3/29/2021 at 1:43 PM, Charlie744 said:

            1) why people insist on focusing on a “7 year period”, instead of what the Messiah would fulfill WITHIN this last week of Daniel is beyond me!

Daniel says nothing at all, neither implies, that the Messiah would fulfill anything within the 70th week. You are imposing your beliefs on the Word without any evidence; because there is none. Everything within 9:26b-27 speaks of the acts, and the results thereof, of the nagyd/commander/"prince" of 26b.

Everything within the 70th week was fulfilled in every detail within the period of the Jewish War of 66-73 A.D.

On 3/29/2021 at 2:04 PM, Charlie744 said:

Can you see even God had Daniel write and tell us how HE viewed this act- by calling it an “abomination”!

Except that verse 27 does not say, in the Hebrew, "abomination" [singular]. (If your Bible version says differently, then it is in error.) Verse 27 literally says "abominations/idols [plural] of a destroyer..." Also, 26b-27 prophesied that "the city [Jerusalem] and and the sanctuary" would be destroyed within the 7oth week. Nothing of the kind took place during, or within 7 years of, Messiah's earthly ministry. But all of those things did take place in 70 A.D.

If you can provide facts, not opinions, that support your view of the 70th week, then have at it. If not, you might want to revise your beliefs.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

Daniel says nothing at all, neither implies, that the Messiah would fulfill anything within the 70th week. You are imposing your beliefs on the Word without any evidence; because there is none. Everything within 9:26b-27 speaks of the acts, and the results thereof, of the nagyd/commander/"prince" of 26b.

Everything within the 70th week was fulfilled in every detail within the period of the Jewish War of 66-73 A.D.

Except that verse 27 does not say, in the Hebrew, "abomination" [singular]. (If your Bible version says differently, then it is in error.) Verse 27 literally says "abominations/idols [plural] of a destroyer..." Also, 26b-27 prophesied that "the city [Jerusalem] and and the sanctuary" would be destroyed within the 7oth week. Nothing of the kind took place during, or within 7 years of, Messiah's earthly ministry. But all of those things did take place in 70 A.D.

If you can provide facts, not opinions, that support your view of the 70th week, then have at it. If not, you might want to revise your beliefs.

Thank you William, I think we will have to disagree here.... FOR ME, the entire 70 week prophecy God is using to not only restore the Jews to Jerusalem WITH all the physical things necessary to be completed / rebuilt WITHIN the first 69 weeks of the 70, but He is also revealing the most important piece of the restoration needed - that being the Holy Presence in the Temple --- and of course that would not be the ARK hidden by Jeremiah some 500 or so years earlier, but the coming Messiah. 

Jesus did come exactly on time on the first day of the 70th week and was crucified within 3.5 years of that last week. Everything in Daniel is setting the stage for the coming Messiah and HIS Plan of Salvation.... He would indeed complete all 6 requirements of 9:24 and HIS crucifixion (abomination) certainly would cause the DESOLATION of the Jews, their land, their city, their Temple.... in 70AD.. There is nothing in Daniel that requires the DESOLATION to occur within a time period.... but EVERYTHING in Daniel prophesying about the coming Messiah, HIS mission and the restoration of the Jews MUST take place within those time periods identified in Daniel.....

But everyone is entitled to their interpretation, thanks, Charlie

[JohnR7]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:13 AM, Charlie744 said:

I really never put much thought or effort (yet) into just why this time (70 AD) was selected by God.

Adam lived to be 930 years old. They believe that he gave 70 years to David. Adam lived around 6,000 years ago, David lived around 3,000 years ago. I go by the year 29 for the first pentecost that we read about in Acts when Peter was preaching in the Upper room. Bishop Ussher uses the year 4004 BC for the beginning of Adam. People come up with anywhere from 27 to 33. The third and the sixth day are the most important. 

[Bible_Gazer]

Forty years I assume was chosen for judgement. That is from the time of Jesus's death.

Israel forty years in the wilderness, it seem to been a time of converting, testing and proving, of course most of them didn't trust God for his protection to cross over, So they where punished forty years. Some died and didn't cross over.

Again most of Israel didn't put faith in Jesus. Forty years of converting, testing and proving Israel. Some crossed over into the new faith.

 

Just seem to be a dispensational time slot for judgement.

 

you will find a lot of forties in the bible