“This Cup”!

[WordSword]

[Note] The intention of this article is to express the depth of the Lord Jesus’ willingness to relate with us concerning the infirmity of all our trials in this life!

 

Was Jesus’ cry of desertion on the Cross a manifestation of Him actually being “forsaken” by the Father, or could it have been to show how far He went to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities” (Heb 4:15)? Though this issue carries no essential doctrine for receiving salvation, I’ve come to find it interesting to attempt a determination in considering whether of the two might be most likely. Myself, the latter seems more than a little possible, considering all that was involved with “this cup,” which first began in the “garden” when He admitted to Peter, James and John that He had become “exceedingly sorrowful” and sought their support in being on “watch” with Him (Mat 26:37; 38, 40).

Even though an angel appeared to Jesus, “to strengthen Him” (Luk 22:42) following His first request to determine some other way than “this cup,” He was still in agony upon His second request, “sweating as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground” (v 44). During His arrest He also knew He would be enduring the hardness of knowing the sorrow (after His third prayer request - Mat 26:44) His Apostles would encounter after forsaking Him” (Mat 26:56; Jhn 16:20, 22); which was to fulfill the prophecy that “I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad” (Zec 13:7; Mat 26:31).

Including all this, and that which the Lord Jesus endured from the “garden” to the time of beginning His walk with the Cross—to the time of His death, I wouldn’t consider it inordinate to entertain the thought that it was possible that allowing Himself (Jhn 19:11) to be overcome with so great excruciating infirmity resulted in His feeling of abandonment concerning His Apostles and His Father.

Considering that the Father and the Son are inseparable (Jhn 8:16, 29); and that there’s nothing that the Father hasn’t already known and seen with His omniscience, including all of the sin in the world (Prov 15:3; Jer 16:17; Heb 4:13), there remains little, in my opinion, to conceive that God was so moved (as it were) that He could not continue to look upon His Son, despite the depth that Christ achieved being “compassed with infirmity” (Heb 5:2) and “exceeding sorrow, even unto death” (Mat 26:38)! Yet, through all this His encouraging final words were, “It is finished.” “Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit” (Jhn 19:30; Luk 23:46).

 

“Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave Me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me” (Jhn 16:32).

[Aries2020]

Greetings,

I think that’s an inspiring thought to notice, which can be easily be overlooked, I realised in general that he paused for a moment in the garden to contemplate the reality of Gods plan.

But what I never considered was because Jesus was also human that he was vulnerable fragile and sensitive just like us and when you pointed out he was touched by our infirmities.  

Then I would agree and say yes in his vulnerable and fragile state he began to experience anxiety, apprehension and affliction and this can clearly be seen as he prayed and returned to his disciples each time.

When he was falsely accused, he was silent.

When they scourged him, he didn’t retaliate or threaten them.

When he was mocked on the cross, he said forgive them.

When it was dark from the 6^th hour until the 9^th hour, he took our sin upon himself.

I believe this is when God turned his back on his Son.

Then Jesus cried out and said why have you forsaken me?

I believe being separated from his father symbolically or literally for eternity for the first time is what killed Jesus.   

I need to acknowledge honour and give thanks for the death resurrection and atonement of Jesus every day.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Peace.

    

Edited March 31, 2021 by Aries2020

[Riverwalker]

We can never overstate what Jesus did for us. Well Said

[Aries2020]

6 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

We can never overstate what Jesus did for us. Well Said

amen.

[Logostician]

I beleive that you could make the case that when Jesus took on all of the sins of the world, past, present, and future, that the Father could not, or more approriately would not, look upon all of this sin, especially as it rested upon the shoulders of his beloved son.  If the father did forsake the Son for this short time on the cross, however, he would seem to be a forsaking our own sins, rather than his beloved Son who bore them like a crown of thorns.

I have no theological basis for saying that Father never truly forsook the Son.  God knows. But this is what I beleive.  The depth of love and the powerful oneness of the Father and the Son, seem to preclude even a moment of abandonment in all of eternity.  Although surely God forsakes humanity that insists on forsaking him by not believing in him and establishing a relationship with him through Jesus.  We cannot remain in our sins and see God.  We need forgiveness through Jesus.  Jesus accomplished this on the cross, for anyone who will beleive.

There is strong theology in the mental, spiritual, and emotional suffering of Jesus.  He was all man, as well as all God.  As a man he felt all of the trepidation we would feel if faced with a tortuous death.  And he felt all of the physical pain of this torture.  And he felt the loneliness of being the true Lamb of God.  Docetism is a false teaching that says that Jesus, as the Son of God, was a spiritual being that was spared this mortal pain.  This is false.  Jesus felt every ounce of the pain of the cross.  Only by being a man, was he able to take the sins of man onto himself.  Jesus is the link between God and man because he was both.  I beleive he still is, and always will be.  For those who love him, I beleive that Jesus took us into himself at the cross, removed the sin, and nailed it to the cross, keeping us sinless by virtue of forgiveness in him.  I also beleive that as we were drawn into Jesus, he entered into us, through his Spirit.  This is a powerful two way relationship.  There is no other like it.  Theology is too small of a word to describe the fact that Jesus is all God, and all man, and provides this relationship to us.  This is the powerful love of God in an everlasting intense relationship with us.  Everything hinges on it.  It is now.  Although the fullness of heaven on earth awaits.

[WordSword]

9 hours ago, Aries2020 said:

I believe this is when God turned his back on his Son.

Then Jesus cried out and said why have you forsaken me?

I believe being separated from his father symbolically or literally for eternity for the first time is what killed Jesus.   

It is, at the least obvious by His cry, that the Lord Jesus learned what it felt like to be abandoned by God, whether or not He was actually forsaken by Him!

Thanks for the reply and God bless!

[WordSword]

8 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

We can never overstate what Jesus did for us. Well Said

Hi and appreciate your comment! No greater love could the Father manifest than to send His Son instead of Himself; and no greater love could the Son manifest than to share in our infirmity in loving us to death (Mat 26:38)!

God bless!

 

[Sower]

On 3/29/2021 at 10:21 AM, WordSword said:

Was Jesus’ cry of desertion on the Cross a manifestation of Him actually being “forsaken” by the Father, or could it have been to show how far He went to “be touched with the feeling of our infirmities”

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;
but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin"  Hebrews 4:15

My personal thoughts has always been the payment (letting of blood of God/man) sufficient to justify forgiveness of
humanities evil, by the Father,  demanded the divine loss of glory to submission, at the hands of the evil doers/sinners, us.
I have wondered, though Jesus suffered as man, that His suffering went beyond our comprehension.
A day is as a thousand years...

As for the why,    "For God so loved....."  (again, beyond our comprehension)

[enoob57]

The extent is as His ways are higher than our ways and past finding out ,now, but when this verse is fulfilled in us that are His
1 John 3:2 (NKJV) [2] Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
I believe it shall transport us so that we could never sin again as the depth of His sacrifice is without end as to effect... it is the fire that removes all first creation realities and knowledge of such leaving only that which is God’s of eternity...
 

[WordSword]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The extent is as His ways are higher than our ways and past finding out ,now, but when this verse is fulfilled in us that are His
1 John 3:2 (NKJV) [2] Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
I believe it shall transport us so that we could never sin again as the depth of His sacrifice is without end as to effect... it is the fire that removes all first creation realities and knowledge of such leaving only that which is God’s of eternity...
 

Amen, a such it shall be in the resurrection. Thanks for the reply!