Has The Church Dropped the Ball ?

[NITE OWL]

Matt. 24:24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect".

Yes I realize Christ was talking about the end times, but who's to say when that time is?

Look at the verse you just read. The devil is going to be at the top of his game. Do you really want to put your trust in signs? Are you going to be able to tell the difference between which sign comes from God and which one doesn't?

Miracles don't have to happen on a grand scale to be called a miracle. Christ didn't teach that we should look for signs to prove His existance. He actually taught against it.

You mention Acts 4:29,30....if you go alittle further down you'll see that not everyone belived those signs. How many people do you suppose were there? 1,2,5,10,20 thousand people? Compare that number to the countless millions that would be able to witness such a sign today.

But if a sign will make you happy, I will show you one or maybe two.

Do you know what an "obelisk" is?

An obelisk is an Egyptian idol used in sun worshipping rituals. Have you seen the Washington Monument? It's an obelisk. From the writings on the walls right up to the shiny cap on top. Check it out.

One of Cleopatras own personnal obelisks sits in New York. There's another one at Bunker Hill.

To me those are signs.

The distance from the earth to the sun is precise. Any further away, we would freeze. Any closer and we would burn.

The ozone layer if compressed is about a quarter inch thick.

"You will hear of wars and rumors of war, earthquakes, starvation, disease."

Open your eyes to the world around you. There are signs everywhere.

Look at the guy earlier this year who was in a coma for many years. One day he sat up and started talking. Is that not a miracle?

A few years back a child fell down a vent shaft. Can't remember how many days he spent wedged in that tiny little pipe, but came out of it with just a few scratches. Was that not a miracle?

There was a guy in the twin towers that was above the explosions. When the building collapsed he went with it and lived to tell about. Was that not a miracle?

I don't know....I don't need signs. I don't need to be reassured that God is there.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

As for me...I already have.

[Ovedya]

"But He answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and a sign shall not be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. Ninevite men will stand up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something more than Jonah is here." (Matt. 12:39-41)

The death and resurrection of Jesus, the Christ, who is the real Jonah today, is the sign given so that men may believe into Him! Only the religious demand a sign from the Son of Man (Matt. 16:1; 1 Cor. 1:22).

[HisWordIsSufficient]

Yes, many churches have certainly dropped the ball. But not all.

It's because theyve either lost respect and reverence for the Lord or there preacing has turned to "self-esteem" preaching and the emphasis is on church growth instead of Christ centred sermons and basing there church focus on simply God himself. They have unity at the expense of truth.

If your church is like this... GET OUT!!!!!

I did and ive never looked back. Turn to whats important. You dont need signs or wonders or counselling from the pulpit. You need The Word of God, Jesus, worship. A Christ centred Church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know some do, but if we all just swapped churches for that reason, I don't think it would solve the problem.

I encourage my pastor as much as I can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Franky67]

Well, I see I havn't been able to get across what's on my heart.

I am not looking for signs.

What I am looking for is the Gospel presented the way Jesus said it should be.

He said it many times, He made it very clear.

I ask all here to study the scriptures below, and ask yourself if what is described below is going to happen next Sunday where you are, and ask yourself while your sitting there, as I have ask myself, "Is this all there is, this isn't what Jesus said would happen."

What probably will happen is about 5 songs, and a 20 min. sermon, and an invitation to come forward to give your life to Christ.

This is good, most of us were saved like this, I'm not against this, except for the fact that it falls far short of what is described below.

Matthew

10:1 "And having summoned His twelve disciples, He gave them authority over unclean spirits to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease, and every kind of sickness."

10:7,8 "And as you go, preach, saying, ' the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, clense the lepers, freely you have received, freely give'."

Mark

6:7 "And He summoned the twelve, and began to send them out in pairs; and giving them authority over the unclean spirits."

6:12, 13 "And they went out and preached that men should repent, and they were casting out many demons, and were anointing with oil many sick people and healing them."

16:15 "And He said to them ' go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."

16:17,18 " and these signs will accompany these who have believed; in My Name, they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues. They will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them, they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

16:20 " And they went out and preached everywhere while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed."

Luke

6:40 " A pupil is not above his teacher, but everyone, after he has been trained, will be like his teacher."

9:1,2 " And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons, and to heal diseases, and He sent them out to proclaim the Kingdom of God and to perform healing."

9:6 "And departing, they began going about among the villages, preaching the Gospel and healing everywhere."

10:1,2 "And now after this, the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them, two by two ahead of Him, to every city and place where He Himself was going to come, and He was saying to them, 'the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few, therefor, beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.' "

10:8,9 "And whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat what is set before you, and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, 'the Kingdom of God has come near you'."

John

10:24,25, 37,38 "The jews gathered around Him, and were saying to him, how long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you and you do not believe, the works that I do in my father's name, these bear witness of me, ............ and if I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe me; but if i do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me , and I in the Father."

14: 11-14 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me, otherwise believe on account of the works themselves. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, shall he do also, and greater works than these shall he do, because I go to the Father, and whatever you ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in My Name, I will do it."

Acts

4:29,30 "And now Lord, take note of their threats, and grant thy bondservants may speak thy word with all confidence, while thou dost extend thy hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of thy Holy servant, Jesus."

8:5,6 "And Philip went down to the city of Samaria and began proclaiming Christ to them, and the multitudes with one accord were giving attention to what was said by Philip, as they heard and saw the signs which he was performing."

14:3 "Therefore they spent a long time there ( in Iconium) speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was bearing witness to the Word of His Grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their

hands."

1 Corinthians

2:4,5 "And my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."

4:19,20 "But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I shall find out, not the words of those who are arrogant, but their power, for the Kingdom of God does not consist in words, but in power."

[HisWordIsSufficient]

Franky67,

I am agreeing with you. In a sense that its such a shame that these churches dont display the spiritual gifts. But i dont believe its the fault of the average bretheren. You will notice that the 'anointing' for these gifts seem only to be for a special few in each church, namely, the Leaders. Anyone else is to sit back and watch. Church it seems is no longer for us to bring something, such as a tongue, a prophecy, a healing, now were meant to sit there and listen and watch. Were there to recieve our weekly dosage of holiness from those in charge and to keep our own gifts and revalations to ourselves until the weekly bible study or 'homegroup' where we might be able to do or say something. The church has dropped the ball because theyve restricted the ammount of people that they decide are called of God to share at church. Read 1 and 2 Corinthians. That is how our church was supposed to be. Everybody went not only to recieve, but to give to, with spiritual gifts, which is the signs and wonders youve been looking for but not finding. Sadly, you wont. Not where you seem to be looking anyway.

[Franky67]

Franky67,

I am agreeing with you. In a sense that its such a shame that these churches dont display the spiritual gifts. But i dont believe its the fault of the average bretheren. You will notice that the 'anointing' for these gifts seem only to be for a special few in each church, namely, the Leaders. Anyone else is to sit back and watch. Church it seems is no longer for us to bring something, such as a tongue, a prophecy, a healing, now were meant to sit there and listen and watch. Were there to recieve our weekly dosage of holiness from those in charge and to keep our own gifts and revalations to ourselves until the weekly bible study or 'homegroup' where we might be able to do or say something. The church has dropped the ball because theyve restricted the ammount of people that they decide are called of God to share at church. Read 1 and 2 Corinthians. That is how our church was supposed to be. Everybody went not only to recieve, but to give to, with spiritual gifts, which is the signs and wonders youve been looking for but not finding. Sadly, you wont. Not where you seem to be looking anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Bluebird

Like I said, although, I may come across as seeking signs, what I really yearn for is exactly what the Master spoke of, His will being done on earth as it is in Heaven.

His perfect will IS done in Heaven, and He said He wanted us to pray that it be done here. We know what His will is, and we know what His will is not, it's in the book.

Yes Church today is, sad to say, a spectator event, and it's taken about 1950 years for it to get to this point, but with a world wide end times revival, the Church can return to what Jesus said it should be.

For the Church to be what it should be, all the saints must be in one accord, that is , EXPECTING God to, by His Holy Spirit, confirm His word whenever, and whereever it is given. That's not happening today, and I believe the cause is century after century of growing disbelief in the body of Christ.

"And you shall seek Me and find Me, when you shall search for Me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

[HisWordIsSufficient]

Thats right Franky

People have lost there faith. Or dont have it. Were to build on that portion of faith deposited to us by the Holy Spirit on our day of salvation to at least a mustard seed (refering to the parable of the mustard seed)

MATT 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

If we all had the faith to move mountains, and realised that the power of God was inside us, Church would be so so so different. But its gonna take people realising that all they have to do is seek to find, which doesnt seem to be happening. My church has just come to the tremendous realisation and were on our way to moving mountains already! Its amazing what Faith can do. Faith, hope and love brother!

[NITE OWL]

What's stopping you from starting a crusade?

A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

Think about it.

[Guest stevej]

Churches as a whole are reflections of their leadership. Find a spirit filled pastor and a spirit filled lay leadership in the church and you will find a spirit filled church. There are many churches satisfied with nothing more than a book review, a pat on the back, and a psychological answer to the scripture. Look at your leadership and you will find your answer.