Polycarp

[Guest kingdombrat]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Did you read Josephus? Not for the faint at heart. It is terrifyingly succinct and brutal.

Our world today is no match for the barbarism of the 1st century. However, it may come upon us this way just prior to the end. I think God raised up Josephus for a very Providential reason.

Have you ever been in a war zone before?

[WilliamL]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:58 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

On 5/20/2021 at 3:23 PM, WilliamL said:

He is said to not die "until I [Jesus] come." John 21:22-23

And that is what happened. 

They tried to kill him a few times but they could not because Jesus had to come back and give John the book of Revelation. 

Then John will died.

Sorry, I don't accept your logic. Jesus did not say "until I come back to see you for a special purpose." Which is what you are presuming. Jesus came back other times besides when He visited John, but those are likewise not relevant to what He meant. Jesus came to see John and all the disciples 40 days after His resurrection, which clearly took place after the event of John 21. Therefore, the only reasonable "coming" to which Jesus was indicating was His Second Coming in glory, the topic heavily on the Apostles' minds in Matt. 24.

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

If you control the media and the money then you seemingly have control of everything.

But we can see between these lines that Yeshua does rule and He is still in power.

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Sorry, bro'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If Yeshua` the Messiah of God is "ruling and still in power," then He is the WEAKEST, SORRYIST, MOST MISERABLE EXCUSE FOR A "KING" THERE IS!

But, He's NOT because He's NOT! He's NOT "weak, sorry, or miserable as a King" because He's NOT a King, yet!

I don't know why you can't see that in the Scriptures and why you can't just accept the fact! You can still claim Him as YOUR King-to-be, and you can still consider yourself to be a future subject of His, but HE SAID HE WON'T BE KING UNTIL HE RETURNS!

[Your closest friendnt]

10 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Sorry, I don't accept your logic. Jesus did not say "until I come back to see you for a special purpose." Which is what you are presuming. Jesus came back other times besides when He visited John, but those are likewise not relevant to what He meant. Jesus came to see John and all the disciples 40 days after His resurrection, which clearly took place after the event of John 21. Therefore, the only reasonable "coming" to which Jesus was indicating was His Second Coming in glory, the topic heavily on the Apostles' minds in Matt. 24.

*John 21:22, ESV: "Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!”" 

*John 21:22, KJV: "Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me."

NIV 

²² Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”

****

Jesus had just finished telling Peter about his mission and that he will die in old age...and how he will die.

And Peter seeing John following them he asked about John, what will happen to John.

From Jesus answer we can tell that Jesus told him that John will out lived him and how John will die is not his concern, and his concern should be to follow him even knowing what it lays before him and how he will die. 

Jesus Christ did not say anything else and I am glad that you admit that that Jesus Christ did not say anything else.  
The same at the time of Jesus Christ, the Angels said in likely manner Jesus will return but they did not say anything else. 

Did the Angels say anything else about Jesus? 

PS this event John 21:22 happened after the Jesus Christ had been raised from the dead.

After Jesus told them to throw their nets to the right of their boat and the miraculous catch of fish.

This was a reminder of what Jesus Christ said to them to abide in the vine, and without him they cannot do much.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Sorry, bro'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If Yeshua` the Messiah of God is "ruling and still in power," then He is the WEAKEST, SORRYIST, MOST MISERABLE EXCUSE FOR A "KING" THERE IS!

But, He's NOT because He's NOT! He's NOT "weak, sorry, or miserable as a King" because He's NOT a King, yet!

I don't know why you can't see that in the Scriptures and why you can't just accept the fact! You can still claim Him as YOUR King-to-be, and you can still consider yourself to be a future subject of His, but HE SAID HE WON'T BE KING UNTIL HE RETURNS!

Jesus never said anything disrespectful about the Romans not only because he will appear and be Judged by the Romans in the face of Pilate, but also he teach his disciples to do the same because he had plans to conquer the Roman Empire. The people who constitute the Roman Empire, to conquered their hearts and cast down the Idols from their hearts and make him the ruler and their King. 

He conquer first Paul who was also a Roman citizen. 

Like him Paul lived into worlds the Jewish and the Roman, that qualified him to be a type of a mediator. 

He understood both of them and he can stand before both of them.

He was Judge by the Jews and the High Priest and he was Judge by the Romans and their Emperor, by the Jewish Sandhering and by the Roman Senate .

Jesus Christ spoke with due respect for the Romans because he had plans to conquer them.

And he did finally he Conquered the Roman Empire and he Conquered their Gods. 

Non of them could stoped him.

Jesus learn to speak with respect about the authorities who were appointed by God to Judge him. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Justin Adams.

Sorry, bro'. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If Yeshua` the Messiah of God is "ruling and still in power," then He is the WEAKEST, SORRYIST, MOST MISERABLE EXCUSE FOR A "KING" THERE IS!

But, He's NOT because He's NOT! He's NOT "weak, sorry, or miserable as a King" because He's NOT a King, yet!

I don't know why you can't see that in the Scriptures and why you can't just accept the fact! You can still claim Him as YOUR King-to-be, and you can still consider yourself to be a future subject of His, but HE SAID HE WON'T BE KING UNTIL HE RETURNS!

Jesus Christ enlisted Paul and sent him on a mission to conquer Greece starting from Macedonia. 

Paul was the Alexander the Great of Jesus Christ. 

He sent him to conquer Greece and the Romans.

Paul started from Macedonian the city of Philippi and continued his Advance from city to City as Alexander was building cities with his name everywhere he set his foot, so was also Paul, everywhere he set his foot he build cities for Jesus Christ he established Churches for Jesus Christ. 

He conquered the Romans everywhere he found them beginning with the Italian clan of Cornelius and Jesus Christ pour the Holy Spirit upon them in the same way as in the Day of Penticost. 

That day Peter said, that God is not respecter of Gender and Nationality. 

The first time Peter showed himself equal to the Gentile Cornelius. 

 

[Retrobyter]

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus never said anything disrespectful about the Romans not only because he will appear and be Judged by the Romans in the face of Pilate, but also he teach his disciples to do the same because he had plans to conquer the Roman Empire. The people who constitute the Roman Empire, to conquered their hearts and cast down the Idols from their hearts and make him the ruler and their King. 

Shalom, Your closest friendnt.

This is just ridiculous. You have FABRICATED what you WANT to believe! First, Yeshua` neither respected the Roman occupation nor did He BOTHER with them! And, you're making Yeshua` sound like He was almost fearful of being "Judged by the Romans in the face of Pilate"! What did He tell His students (disciples)?

Matthew 10:1-31 (KJV)

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these;
The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
and Andrew his brother;
James the son of Zebedee,
and John his brother; 
3 Philip,
and Bartholomew;
Thomas,
and Matthew the publican;
James the son of Alphaeus,
and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 
4 Simon the Canaanite,
and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles (Romans, Greeks, Phoenicians and Idumeans), and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. 7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying,

"'The kingdom of heaven is (near) at hand.' (I.e., the Kingdom from the sky was within their grasp.)

8 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat. 11 And into whatsoever (JEWISH) city or (JEWISH) town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence. 12 And when ye come into an (JEWISH) house, salute it. 13 And if the (JEWISH) house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that (JEWISH) house or (JEWISH) city, shake off the dust of your feet. 15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that (JEWISH) city.

16 "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 "And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 "But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come (RIGHT THEN before He was crucified).

24 "The disciple (student) is not above his master (teacher), nor the servant (slave) above his lord (master). 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be AS his master, and the servant AS his lord. If they have called the master of the house 'Beelzebub' ('Lord of flies' or 'Lord of dung'), how much more (worse) shall they call them of his household?

26 "Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach (herald, like a town cryer) ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear HIM which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Greek: ge-ennee, the locative, feminine, singular of ge-enna, a transliteration of the Hebrew phrase, Gei-Hinnowm). 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows."

Gei-Hinnowm (or Gei-Ben-Hinnowm) means the "Valley of (the Son of) Hinnowm." It's a valley just outside the Old City of Jerusalem on the southeast corner of the city. It's where kings of Israel used to set up their judgment seats facing the city. On the left of the king/judge, was the city's trash heap where criminals were taken for execution. On the right was the city's Golden Gate, where those who were acquitted were allowed to enter the city.

It is a scene of the future judgment that the King shall perform during His reign. A time that is NOT currently happening!

 

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

He conquer first Paul who was also a Roman citizen. 

Like him Paul lived in two worlds, the Jewish and the Roman; that qualified him to be a type of a mediator. 

This is TRUE fiction! You're merely trying to make Paul look like Yeshua`, which is a very poor comparison.

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

He (Paul) understood both of them and he can stand before both of them.

He (Paul) was Judged by the Jews and the High Priest and he was Judged by the Romans and their Emperor, by the Jewish Sanhedrin and by the Roman Senate.

Again, this is a farce. Paul was NOT judged by the Sanhedrin NOR by the Roman Senate!

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus Christ spoke with due respect for the Romans because he had plans to conquer them.

Ridiculous. Yeshua`, the Messiah of God to be King, didn't treat the Romans with respect; He didn't deal with them AT ALL!

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

And he did finally he Conquered the Roman Empire and he Conquered their Gods.

This, too, is nothing but FICTION! It's a MADE-UP STORY you're trying to pass on as though it was truth! I'll bet you sing "Onward, Christian Soldiers," too!

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

None of them could stop him.

Really? He didn't "conquer" them AT ALL!

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

Jesus learn to speak with respect about the authorities who were appointed by God to Judge him. 

Don't you remember the Gospels at all? HERE'S what Yeshua` said to Pontius Pilate, in all four Gospels, so there's no doubt at all:

Matthew 27:11-26 (KJV)

11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying,

"Art thou the King of the Jews?"

And Jesus said unto him,

"Thou sayest."

12 And when he was accused of the chief priests and elders, he answered nothing. 13Then said Pilate unto him,

"Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?"

14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly.

15 Now at that feast the governor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner, whom they would. 16 And they had then a notable prisoner, called Barabbas. 17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them,

"Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ (Messiah = Anointed one to be King)?"

18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. 19 When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying,

"Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him!" 

20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus. 21 The governor answered and said unto them,

"Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you?"

They said,

"Barabbas!" 

22 Pilate saith unto them,

"What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ?"

They all say unto him,

"Let him be crucified!" 

23 And the governor said,

"Why, what evil hath he done?"

But they cried out the more, saying,

"Let him be crucified!"

24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying,

"I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it."

25 Then answered all the people, and said,

"His blood be on us, and on our children."

26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

Mark 15:1-15 (KJV)

1 And straightway in the morning the chief priests held a consultation with the elders and scribes and the whole council, and bound Jesus, and carried him away, and delivered him to Pilate. 2 And Pilate asked him,

"Art thou the King of the Jews?"

And he answering said unto him,

"Thou sayest it."

3 And the chief priests accused him of many things: but he answered nothing. 4 And Pilate asked him again, saying,

"Answerest thou nothing? behold how many things they witness against thee!" 

5 But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.

6 Now at that feast he released unto them one prisoner, whomsoever they desired. 7 And there was one named Barabbas, which lay bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection. 8 And the multitude crying aloud began to desire him to do as he had ever done unto them. 9 But Pilate answered them, saying,

"Will ye that I release unto you the King of the Jews?"

10 For he knew that the chief priests had delivered him for envy. 11 But the chief priests moved the people, that he should rather release Barabbas unto them.

12 And Pilate answered and said again unto them,

"What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews?"

13 And they cried out again,

"Crucify him!" 

14 Then Pilate said unto them,

"Why, what evil hath he done?"

And they cried out the more exceedingly,

"Crucify him!" 

15 And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.

Luke 22:1-25 (KJV)

1 And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate. 2 And they began to accuse him, saying,

"We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King."

3 And Pilate asked him, saying,

"Art thou the King of the Jews?"

And he answered him and said,

"Thou sayest it."

4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people,

"I find no fault in this man."

5 And they were the more fierce, saying,

"He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place!"

6 When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.

7 And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.

8 And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him. 9 Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing. 10 And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him. 11 And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate. 12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

13 And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people, 14 Said unto them,

"Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him: 15 No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him. 16 I will therefore chastise him, and release him."

17 (For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)

18 And they cried out all at once, saying,

"Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas": 

19 (Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.) 20 Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them. 21 But they cried, saying,

"Crucify him, crucify him!" 

22 And he said unto them the third time,

"Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go."

23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed. 24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required. 25 And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.

John 18:33-40, 19:1-15 (KJV)

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him,

"Art thou the King of the Jews?"

34 Jesus answered him,

"Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?"

35 Pilate answered,

"Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?"

36 Jesus answered,

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

37 Pilate therefore said unto him,

"Art thou a king then?"

Jesus answered,

"Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

38 Pilate saith unto him,

"What is truth?"

And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them,

"I find in him no fault at all. 39 But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?"

40 Then cried they all again, saying,

"Not this man, but Barabbas."

Now Barabbas was a robber. 1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him. 2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe, 3And said,

"Hail, King of the Jews!"

and they smote him with their hands. 4 Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them,

"Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him."

5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them,

"Behold the man!"

6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying,

"Crucify him, crucify him!" 

Pilate saith unto them,

"Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him."

7 The Jews answered him,

"We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God."

8 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid; 9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus,

"Whence art thou?"

But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then saith Pilate unto him,

"Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?"

11 Jesus answered,

"Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee HATH THE GREATER SIN."

12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying,

"If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar."

13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. 14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews,

"Behold your King!"

15 But they cried out,

"Away with him, away with him, crucify him!" 

Pilate saith unto them,

"Shall I crucify your King?"

The chief priests answered,

"We have no king but Caesar."

Does ANY of that sound like Yeshua` "respected" Pilate? He called him a SINNER! He refused to answer many of his questions! He TOLD Pilate that he had NO power over Him, unless GOD allowed him to have such power! No, He didn't "respect" Pilate!